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What if, Nazi secret weapons of WW2, were built?

Nazi super weapons

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Sqn Ldr B #41 Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:53 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 30 August 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

I think a more fun conversation would be how far the Soviet Union would have been set back if Stalin had listened to some of the crazy ideas wonder weapons that were suggested to him. Behold the mighty jumping tank:
http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/07/war-of-worlds.html

 

Seems feasible.

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Sqn Ldr B #42 Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:54 PM

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View PostJoco3000, on 30 August 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Why would they need to develop superweapons when their late war designs were plenty good and in varying stages of production.

He 213, Ta 152H, He 162, Ho 223, Ar 232, Ar 234C and the Me 264 were all good aircraft that reached either limited production or the prototype stages.

 

Personally I don't think the He 162 was any good. A plywood jet aircraft piloted by a Hitler Youth, with structural defects and a tendency to suck said Hitler Youth into the engine intake when he bails out isn't very good in my books.

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Matthew J35U5 #43 Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:58 PM

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View PostHellhound2723, on 30 August 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

You can do alot of damage with a rocket than ca deliver 1 ton of explosive that has pin point accuracy. Like a cruise missile.

Pin-point accuracy is far beyond the capabilities of any countries ICBM during WWII. I don't think it was until the middle of the cold war that you could try to describe icbm's as having that level of accuracy. Anyway, if you aren't using nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, ICBM's aren't really that special as bombers do the same thing, with greater volume. 

View PostSqn Ldr B, on 30 August 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

Oh, you're a lot quicker than I'd expected. To be honest I can think of three people that would match the description anyway, so don't feel too special.

Oh, I'm glad to know there are several people you are passive-aggressively annoyed with because they didn't treat you with the respect you felt you deserved. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Joco3000 #44 Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:58 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 30 August 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

 

Personally I don't think the He 162 was any good. A plywood jet aircraft piloted by a Hitler Youth, with structural defects and a tendency to suck said Hitler Youth into the engine intake when he bails out isn't very good in my books.

 

When you make an aircraft that fast, and partially out of a material that eats the other half, you're going to have issues.

The basic design was solid. It was just rushed, somewhat thankfully.


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Uranprojekt #45 Posted 30 August 2015 - 10:59 PM

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View PostHellhound2723, on 30 August 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Those things could have been mass produced, the resources were there. Time was not on there side, due to constant Allied bombing.

 

Before I talk about the above quoted post, I'd like to answer the original question. If the secret weapons on the Nazi drawing board had been built, everyone would know about them and they'd no longer be secret which kind of defeats the purpose of them being "secret" weapons :P

 

Now, let's talk about these resources. Germany, contrary to what you may believe, was not in possession of a vast amount of resources. Lumber, perhaps, but not other essential materials like metals and oil. In fact, the majority of crude oil that Germany used during the war came from oil fields elsewhere in Europe like, for example, the oil fields in Romania. The reasoning behind Operation Barbarossa was to tap into the wealth of natural resources in the Soviet Union. Germany imported materials like oil, iron, and wheat (a soldier's gotta eat) whereas the Soviet Union didn't, the Soviets were largely self sufficient in these things. One of the biggest advantages the Allies had in the later war years was the severe lack of oil, and thus fuel, that the Germans faced. How do you fuel the engine, which has a total fuel capacity with both internal and external fuel tanks of 4,200 litres, that powers the Maus if you barely have enough fuel to keep your existing tank forces running?

 

Since this is a "what if" scenario, I'll give you one. What if the Germans had managed to build enough Maus tanks to create a Maus battalion?

 

Think about how much fuel a Maus heavy tank battalion would need to run efficiently. To give you an idea, the standard number of heavy tanks in a heavy tank battalion was 45* so you'd be looking at a lot of fuel. 189,000 litres of fuel to be exact. Compare that to the 38,700 litres of fuel needed to run a full strength Tiger II heavy tank battalion, each Tiger II having a fuel capacity of 860 litres, and you can see the nightmare the Germans would have had keeping a Maus battalion running.

 

Time wasn't on Germany's side, you're correct on that point, but that's about the only thing that's right in the above quote.

 

*45 was supposed to be the standard number of tanks in a German heavy tank battalion but it was often the case that a battalion would go into battle with less than 45 tanks due to mechanical issues or fuel shortages.


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Matthew J35U5 #46 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:00 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 30 August 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

 

Seems feasible.

My favourite part is when the author of the letter says he would like the opportunity to work with a real engineer. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Navyman8390 #47 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:01 PM

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If the ME 262s could have been fielded earlier and in greater numbers it MAY have had an impact on the air war.  BUT, maybe not.  The Red Tails were the first to fight the 262 and they could take them down with their Mustangs.  When guns are the main weapon the advantage of jet speed is lost in the close range turning dog fights with guns.  As for the V2s INS would have needed to be invented a decade earlier by the Germans to make them accurate.  As for tanks anything heavier than the Tiger II would have been mechanically un-reliable.  Indeed the Tiger II itself had an abysmal readiness record.  The power train, electrical, hydraulic, and metallurgic technologies of the time were not up to a tank that heavy.

1.  Germany had advanced ideas but immature supporting technologies.

2.  Their very brightest scientists and engineers either fled or were murdered.



Sqn Ldr B #48 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:06 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 30 August 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

Oh, I'm glad to know there are several people you are passive-aggressively annoyed with because they didn't treat you with the respect you felt you deserved. 

Well, they do say that treating other people with respect even if you don't agree with their views on a petty subject about something that never happened is a good trait to have.


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Matthew J35U5 #49 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:11 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 30 August 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Well, they do say that treating other people with respect even if you don't agree with their views on a petty subject about something that never happened is a good trait to have.

View PostSqn Ldr B, on 29 August 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

 

You know what? Shut up and go away from the forums please. That would be nice of you. 
They do indeed say that. 

Who needs a Maus when you can build a heat-ray tank that can destroy any number of Maus from 50 km away?
http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/07/heat-ray-tank.html

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Sqn Ldr B #50 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:13 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 30 August 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

They do indeed say that. 

They also say that people who don't treat others with respect on a petty subject don't deserve any themselves. By the way, are you following me around on the forums looking for quotes to use in another argument?

 

That second design also seems feasible.


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Matthew J35U5 #51 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:19 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 30 August 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

They also say that people who don't treat others with respect on a petty subject don't deserve any themselves. By the way, are you following me around on the forums looking for quotes to use in another argument?

 

That second design also seems feasible.

No, but when glaring hypocrisy jumps at me I try to take note of it. 

How about this one: For the low sum of 25,000 $ (which presumably was a lot of money in the 30's), you can have your very own relativistic particle cannon that can destroy anything. 25,000$ must be paid in advance, no refunds allowed. 
http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/10/teslas-death-ray.html


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Sqn Ldr B #52 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:21 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 30 August 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

No, but when glaring hypocrisy jumps at me I try to take note of it. 

How about this one: For the low sum of 25,000 $ (which presumably was a lot of money in the 30's), you can have your very own relativistic particle cannon that can destroy anything. 25,000$ must be paid in advance, no refunds allowed. 
http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/10/teslas-death-ray.html

 

I wasn't treating him with respect because he was calling everyone on the forums a wallet warrior even before the first reply. 


Again, strong Soviet design is perfectly feasible.


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Matthew J35U5 #53 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:27 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 30 August 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

I wasn't treating him with respect because he was calling everyone on the forums a wallet warrior even before the first reply. 


Again, strong Soviet design is perfectly feasible.

In other words, you treat people with the respect you feel they deserve, but demand everyone treat you with the respect that you feel you deserve. That seems hypocritical to me. 

I'm not entirely sure from reading those letters, but I think Tesla might have successfully fleeced the Soviet Union out of 25,000. If so, good for him, he clearly learned well from Edison. 


Not really anything interesting to say about this one, just some weird tank designs that wouldn't really have been good even if they had been built:
http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/06/spherical-tanks.html


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Sqn Ldr B #54 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:28 PM

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Seems feasible as well. The Germans had one like that with 5mm of armour and no obvious purpose, I think its at Kubinka.

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DatTrollinSpy #55 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:31 PM

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View PostNavyman8390, on 30 August 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

If the ME 262s could have been fielded earlier and in greater numbers it MAY have had an impact on the air war.  BUT, maybe not.  The Red Tails were the first to fight the 262 and they could take them down with their Mustangs.  When guns are the main weapon the advantage of jet speed is lost in the close range turning dog fights with guns. 

 

The ME 262 could've helped Germany regain air superiority in Europe, but the Horton 229 prototype stealth fighter would've done a far better job if it were massed produced in time.


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Matthew J35U5 #56 Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:34 PM

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Being a stealth plane doesn't mean a whole lot when you need to close to visual range to engage anything. And enemy planes don't have radar. I thought it was a bomber anyway. (Where being a stealth bomber might be relevant)

KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Navyman8390 #57 Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:45 AM

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View PostxZcloneSpy2817x, on 30 August 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

The ME 262 could've helped Germany regain air superiority in Europe, but the Horton 229 prototype stealth fighter would've done a far better job if it were massed produced in time.

As I said before.  The close range and manueverability requirements of guns as primary weapons do somewhat negate the speed advantage of the jet.  Even in Korea there were a few Corsair MIG 15 kills.  The Horton MAY have worked in a stealth strike role by being able to get in, take out the radar antennas and or control buildings with bombs or strafing, and egress at high speed before a Spit ever got near it.  That's a big MAY when one considers things like accuracy and intel.



Sqn Ldr B #58 Posted 31 August 2015 - 09:17 AM

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View PostxZcloneSpy2817x, on 30 August 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

 

The ME 262 could've helped Germany regain air superiority in Europe, but the Horton 229 prototype stealth fighter would've done a far better job if it were massed produced in time.

 

Actually there was nothing stealth about the 229, it was just simply a flying wing design. People often think its stealth due to the similarities between it and the B2 Spirit.

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EggySalmon #59 Posted 31 August 2015 - 09:22 AM

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Well I think there would  be more people in the German speaking section

 


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R35T NO MORE #60 Posted 31 August 2015 - 10:07 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 30 August 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

They do indeed say that. 

Who needs a Maus when you can build a heat-ray tank that can destroy any number of Maus from 50 km away?
http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/07/heat-ray-tank.html

:teethhappy: whoever wrote that had drank far, far too much vodka or was just a complete idiot..or both. 


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