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WWII German armor coating

Tiger Panther German armor

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Matthew J35U5 #41 Posted 13 October 2015 - 08:48 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 11 October 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Am I the only one here under the impression it was mainly petrol and kerosene, and other highly flammable fuels that were used in Molotovs, and not so much Vodka?

You're correct now that I think about it. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Sqn Ldr B #42 Posted 13 October 2015 - 09:10 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 13 October 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

You're correct now that I think about it. 

 

Wow, really? That may just be the first time you've ever said that. :bajan:If I remember rightly the Finns, who invented it, mixed it with tar or sap to thicken it, and in its various forms the petrol was mixed with other things to thicken it, including some kind of resin in the British ones and washing-up liquid in the ones used by Americans in Iraq.

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Matthew J35U5 #43 Posted 13 October 2015 - 09:15 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 13 October 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

 

Wow, really? That may just be the first time you've ever said that. :bajan:If I remember rightly the Finns, who invented it, mixed it with tar or sap to thicken it, and in its various forms the petrol was mixed with other things to thicken it, including some kind of resin in the British ones and washing-up liquid in the ones used by Americans in Iraq.

AFAIK, it was invented in Spain. The name was coined by the Finns. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Sqn Ldr B #44 Posted 13 October 2015 - 09:23 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 13 October 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

AFAIK, it was invented in Spain. The name was coined by the Finns. 

 

So it was.

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Uranprojekt #45 Posted 13 October 2015 - 11:11 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 11 October 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Am I the only one here under the impression it was mainly petrol and kerosene, and other highly flammable fuels that were used in Molotovs, and not so much Vodka?

 

Vodka would do the job just fine, as long as the ignited alcohol can find its way through gaps in the engine deck and come into contact with the engine.

 

(Science-y bit) The alcohol content of a given alcoholic beverage is displayed as Alcohol by Volume (AbV). AbV is the measure of how much alcohol is contained within a certain of measure of alcohol, usually 100 ml. The AbV is displayed as a percentage of the total volume which is 40% for Vodka. Alcohol is essentially distilled ethanol and ethanol is highly flammable which, in effect, means that vodka with its 40% alcohol/ethanol content is also pretty damned flammable (have you ever tried igniting vodka? I have and it lights up a treat). A Molotov cocktail containing vodka would likely be as effective against a tank as a crude oil-based fuel Molotov cocktail, as long as the ignited liquid comes into contact with the engine.

 

I'd wager that Molotov cocktails containing vodka would actually be more prevalent than crude oil-based fuel Molotovs in the USSR due to fact that just about any Russian peasant with access to the right ingredients could make home-brew vodka quite easily. Just because Soviet soldiers had their vodka rationed didn't mean they couldn't access copious amounts of the stuff in the field, they'd certainly have an easier time getting their hands on vodka than they would trying to get a hold of something as vital to the war effort as kerosene, petrol or diesel.


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Matthew J35U5 #46 Posted 14 October 2015 - 01:24 AM

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View PostUranprojekt, on 13 October 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

 

Vodka would do the job just fine, as long as the ignited alcohol can find its way through gaps in the engine deck and come into contact with the engine.

 

(Science-y bit) The alcohol content of a given alcoholic beverage is displayed as Alcohol by Volume (AbV). AbV is the measure of how much alcohol is contained within a certain of measure of alcohol, usually 100 ml. The AbV is displayed as a percentage of the total volume which is 40% for Vodka. Alcohol is essentially distilled ethanol and ethanol is highly flammable which, in effect, means that vodka with its 40% alcohol/ethanol content is also pretty damned flammable (have you ever tried igniting vodka? I have and it lights up a treat). A Molotov cocktail containing vodka would likely be as effective against a tank as a crude oil-based fuel Molotov cocktail, as long as the ignited liquid comes into contact with the engine.

 

I'd wager that Molotov cocktails containing vodka would actually be more prevalent than crude oil-based fuel Molotovs in the USSR due to fact that just about any Russian peasant with access to the right ingredients could make home-brew vodka quite easily. Just because Soviet soldiers had their vodka rationed didn't mean they couldn't access copious amounts of the stuff in the field, they'd certainly have an easier time getting their hands on vodka than they would trying to get a hold of something as vital to the war effort as kerosene, petrol or diesel.

Being a science student, I appreciated your "sciency explanation". (Which is all accurate AFAIK. :P)

Someone at my university managed to ignite their organic solvent with just heat, not even using a flame. I almost wish I could have been there...


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


WidowMaker1711 #47 Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:43 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 14 October 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Being a science student, I appreciated your "sciency explanation". (Which is all accurate AFAIK. :P)

Someone at my university managed to ignite their organic solvent with just heat, not even using a flame. I almost wish I could have been there...

 

Isnt that the same way moonshiners often find their stills blowing up


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Uranprojekt #48 Posted 14 October 2015 - 08:46 AM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 14 October 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Being a science student, I appreciated your "sciency explanation". (Which is all accurate AFAIK. :P)

Someone at my university managed to ignite their organic solvent with just heat, not even using a flame. I almost wish I could have been there...

 

Being a former science student that had a knack for making ethanol, I appreciate your appreciation (and the dangers of making/storing ethanol) :P

 

View PostWidowMaker1711, on 14 October 2015 - 02:43 AM, said:

 

Isnt that the same way moonshiners often find their stills blowing up

 

Yes. Moonshine generally has an AbV of ~90-95% (so does vodka until it gets watered down) which essentially makes it pure ethanol and any heat, spark or flame in close proximity to the container the ethanol is in will cause the ethanol to ignite.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

 

I write things, things which can be found in Historical Discussions. Things like this article on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in 1945 and this article on the Spanish Civil War.

 

To those of you who don't molest the English language, I salute you. For everyone else, there's this handy link; http://www.reverso.n...elling-grammar/


LordGrayHawk #49 Posted 20 October 2015 - 12:31 AM

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View PostChamorai, on 03 September 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

Can anyone explain what the layer of rough material on the armor of some German tanks is and what is its purpose?

Tiger_Tank_03.jpg

It's called Zimmerit and was used by the German's to defeat magnetic anti-tank mines by increasing the distance between the metallic hull and the surface of the vehicle where a magnetic anti-tank mine might be placed.  Ironically, Germany was the only country to use magnetic anti-tank mines.  Their fear of the Russians copying their ATM design led to the development and deployment of Zimmerit.


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