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Which WWII tank would survive the longest on a modern battlefield?


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I3iggus Nickus #41 Posted 20 December 2015 - 10:52 AM

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View PostGyrfalcon 642, on 01 October 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Title says it all.  Which WW2 tank would have the best chance of surviving on the modern battlefield.

 

I'll start the fun, I'm going with the M24 Chaffee. 

 

I'm no expert, but I'm going on the assumption that NO WW2 tank had armor that could stand up to modern guns.  So I'm going with the tank that I'm guessing would be the hardest to hit.

 

Debate and lets have some fun.

 

something small and fast, which would be the chaffee

No tank guns/armor would be effective today


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JAG THE GEMINI #42 Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:30 PM

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View PostMatthew J35U5, on 09 December 2015 - 02:40 AM, said:

 

Oh?

Point to me where. 

 

Its perfectly valid to say that a heavily upgraded WWII vehicle doesn't really fit the spirit of the question, but the T-54 is a WWII tank. 

 

T54 is not! a WWII tank. There were only prototypes and tries to upgrade the T44 in 1945, but the T54 we know and LOVE is not build in the second world war.

 

 

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WidowMaker1711 #43 Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:32 PM

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View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 20 December 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

View PostMatthew J35U5, on 09 December 2015 - 02:40 AM, said:

 

Oh?

Point to me where. 

 

Its perfectly valid to say that a heavily upgraded WWII vehicle doesn't really fit the spirit of the question, but the T-54 is a WWII tank. 

 

T54 is not! a WWII tank. There were only prototypes and tries to upgrade the T44 in 1945, but the T54 we know and LOVE is not build in the second world war.

 

:popcorn:



JAG THE GEMINI #44 Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:38 PM

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View PostWidowMaker1711, on 20 December 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

 

:popcorn:

 

:bush:

 

 

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Matthew J35U5 #45 Posted 20 December 2015 - 03:51 PM

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View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 20 December 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

 

T54 is not! a WWII tank. There were only prototypes and tries to upgrade the T44 in 1945, but the T54 we know and LOVE is not build in the second world war.

 

that is because the T-54 you know and love never existed, its a combination of the T-54 model 1945 and the T-54 model 1949. 

 

So stop your nonsense, the T54 is a WWII tank, designed and first built during WWII.

 

More to the point would be that giving the T-54 2015 electronics, and a super-duper ATGM makes it not really a WWII tank, but somehow the only problem people have with my suggestion of a heavily modified T-54 is that they don't think the T-54 "counts" as a WWII tank, rather than that it really doesn't fit the spirit of the question to heavily upgrade a WWII tank, and still count it in this question. 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Mr Crowley ll #46 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:53 AM

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E25

 

 


tbown2 #47 Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:26 AM

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View PostBleakPanther, on 01 October 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

 

Isn't that tank a bit later than WW2?

 

Anyways, I'll have to give it to the Locust tank. 

 

View PostCrazedtiger77, on 01 October 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

The Locust, Tetrarch and any other small, lightly armoured vehicle would all fare reasonably well on the modern battlefield. That said, the Comet wouldn't do badly either as it would be able to deal with many modern light tanks. 

 

How would those fare well? In running away yes but anything else no. 

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Crazedtiger77 #48 Posted 24 December 2015 - 07:50 AM

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View Posttbown2, on 24 December 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

 

 

How would those fare well? In running away yes but anything else no. 

 

No WWII tank would be able to knock out a main battle tank, that's a given. However, being small and fast, the Locust and Terarch with the littlejohn adapter would be able to knock out any enemy light armour before retreating.


Uranprojekt #49 Posted 24 December 2015 - 10:57 AM

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View PostCrazedtiger77, on 24 December 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

 

No WWII tank would be able to knock out a mmain battle tank, that's a given. However, being small and fast, the Locust and Terarch with the littlejohn adapter would be able to knock out any enemy light armour before retreating.

 

Realistically, how far would the Locust and/or Tetrarch get?

 

I've been putting some consideration into this for past few minutes and, looking through the thread, we all seem to be forgetting something. This isn't just a modern tank fighting a WWII era tank scenario, it's a modern battlefield scenario with WWII tanks in it and there are more than just MBTs to worry about. There are also, in no particular order, these;

 

AGM-114 Hellfire missiles
Brimstone missiles
Х-59 Овод (Kh-59 "Gadfly" - pronounced "Ovod" in Russian) missiles
FGM-148 Javelins

BGM-71 TOW
9M133 Корнет (Kornet)

AH-64
Ka-50
Eurocopter Tiger (Tigre if you're in France).

 

There are more examples of dangers to tanks that aren't other tanks but I felt that listing them all would be counterproductive. Anyway, my point is that a WWII era tank is incredibly ill-suited to face any of the threats listed above. It's a mixed list of air-to-surface and surface-to-surface missiles and attack helos, which can mount some of the listed missiles, and every single listed weapon/helo can catch a Locust or a Tetrarch.

 

Ergo, a heavily armoured WWII tank isn't particularly useful on a modern battlefield (Tiger/Tiger II, IS series, etcetera) and neither is a small, lightly armoured and fast WWII tank (Locust, Tetrarch and so on). 


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Crazedtiger77 #50 Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:20 AM

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View PostUranprojekt, on 24 December 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

Realistically, how far would the Locust and/or Tetrarch get?

 

I've been putting some consideration into this for past few minutes and, looking through the thread, we all seem to be forgetting something. This isn't just a modern tank fighting a WWII era tank scenario, it's a modern battlefield scenario with WWII tanks in it and there are more than just MBTs to worry about. There are also, in no particular order, these;

 

AGM-114 Hellfire missiles
Brimstone missiles
Х-59 Овод (Kh-59 "Gadfly" - pronounced "Ovod" in Russian) missiles
FGM-148 Javelins

BGM-71 TOW
9M133 Корнет (Kornet)

AH-64
Ka-50
Eurocopter Tiger (Tigre if you're in France).

 

There are more examples of dangers to tanks that aren't other tanks but I felt that listing them all would be counterproductive. Anyway, my point is that a WWII era tank is incredibly ill-suited to face any of the threats listed above. It's a mixed list of air-to-surface and surface-to-surface missiles and attack helos, which can mount some of the listed missiles, and every single listed weapon/helo can catch a Locust or a Tetrarch.

 

Ergo, a heavily armoured WWII tank isn't particularly useful on a modern battlefield (Tiger/Tiger II, IS series, etcetera) and neither is a small, lightly armoured and fast WWII tank (Locust, Tetrarch and so on). 

 

I would envision vehicles like the Locust and Tetrarch taking on the tank destroyer role which aren't particularly well armoured or that much faster either. Perhaps the best WWII combat vehicle on a modern battlefield isn't a tank at all but one of the Sd Kfz 234 variants. They were very modern and effective at the time and, whilst still vulnerable (they were during WWII) they could still support infantry or knock out light armour very well depending on the variant chosen.



AJH387 #51 Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:45 PM

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Hellcat..... Hide, shoot, leave (and don't get hit).


Nocturnal814 #52 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:03 PM

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View PostAJH387, on 24 December 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

Hellcat..... Hide, shoot, leave (and don't get hit).

 

this. It can outrun any tank on the battlefield (to this day I believe, will check)

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Uranprojekt #53 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:22 PM

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View PostCrazedtiger77, on 24 December 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

 

I would envision vehicles like the Locust and Tetrarch taking on the tank destroyer role which aren't particularly well armoured or that much faster either. Perhaps the best WWII combat vehicle on a modern battlefield isn't a tank at all but one of the Sd Kfz 234 variants. They were very modern and effective at the time and, whilst still vulnerable (they were during WWII) they could still support infantry or knock out light armour very well depending on the variant chosen.

 

I'd like some clarification here, do you mean the SdKfz 234/2 Puma or did you get the designations mixed and mean the SdKfz 251?

 

The SdKfz 234/2 could, theoretically, perform as well as any other armoured car/wheeled light scout vehicle if it were given a couple of modern updates here and there. That said, I would think that the SdKfz 251 would the more versatile platform. If we consider how the Germans made use of the 251 during WWII, it started off as a simple means of troop transport across terrain than the standard Heer transports, typically the Opel Blitz trucks, couldn't cope with and through a wide array of upgrades, became a very effective combat support vehicle in a variety of ways. There were something like 24 variants of the 251 raging from the standard MG34/42 armed troop transport and fire support vehicle to the Wuhrfrahmen 40 MLRS (albeit, a very early example of an MLRS system) to an AA gun platform mounting triple MG151 autocannons to an AT variant mounting a 7.5cm PaK 40. The 234/2 would be somewhat limited in how it could be upgraded, due in part to it being an armoured car with a turret, whereas the half-track 251 offers a much better platform for upgrading.


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Nocturnal814 #54 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:24 PM

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View PostUranprojekt, on 24 December 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

 

I'd like some clarification here, do you mean the SdKfz 234/2 Puma or did you get the designations mixed and mean the SdKfz 251?

 

The SdKfz 234/2 could, theoretically, perform as well as any other armoured car/wheeled light scout vehicle if it were given a couple of modern updates here and there. That said, I would think that the SdKfz 251 would the more versatile platform. If we consider how the Germans made use of the 251 during WWII, it started off as a simple means of troop transport across terrain than the standard Heer transports, typically the Opel Blitz trucks, couldn't cope with and through a wide array of upgrades, became a very effective combat support vehicle in a variety of ways. There were something like 24 variants of the 251 raging from the standard MG34/42 armed troop transport and fire support vehicle to the Wuhrfrahmen 40 MLRS (albeit, a very early example of an MLRS system) to an AA gun platform mounting triple MG151 autocannons to an AT variant mounting a 7.5cm PaK 40. The 234/2 would be somewhat limited in how it could be upgraded, due in part to it being an armoured car with a turret, whereas the half-track 251 offers a much better platform for upgrading.

 

halftracks went out of favor after ww2 for a reason

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MegaB0B0 #55 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:25 PM

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None... Cause modern tank has missiles lol heck, I am pretty sure anti tank launchers on a Toyota truck can beat even the mighty maus in no time so does it would nail the is-3
That one bounced... WTF..not at 100m and not twice in a roll and not on the side of a Walfe-100 with a BL-10!!!

killer etzi0 #56 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:27 PM

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In all seriousness here, regardless of the WWII tank, we are only talking a matter of seconds ... Today's "Modern" battle field is loaded with weaponry and tracking systems that would smoke any hardware from WWII.... so to answer the question accurately, which tank would survive the longest would depend on what weapon system was fired at it and how long it takes that weapon to arrive on target. That is your answer.
 

Edited by killer etzi0, 24 December 2015 - 02:27 PM.

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Uranprojekt #57 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:31 PM

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View PostNocturnal814, on 24 December 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

halftracks went out of favor after ww2 for a reason

 

As did Hellcats, yet you'd still want to use one.


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Crazedtiger77 #58 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:36 PM

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View PostUranprojekt, on 24 December 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

I'd like some clarification here, do you mean the SdKfz 234/2 Puma or did you get the designations mixed and mean the SdKfz 251?

 

The SdKfz 234/2 could, theoretically, perform as well as any other armoured car/wheeled light scout vehicle if it were given a couple of modern updates here and there. That said, I would think that the SdKfz 251 would the more versatile platform. If we consider how the Germans made use of the 251 during WWII, it started off as a simple means of troop transport across terrain than the standard Heer transports, typically the Opel Blitz trucks, couldn't cope with and through a wide array of upgrades, became a very effective combat support vehicle in a variety of ways. There were something like 24 variants of the 251 raging from the standard MG34/42 armed troop transport and fire support vehicle to the Wuhrfrahmen 40 MLRS (albeit, a very early example of an MLRS system) to an AA gun platform mounting triple MG151 autocannons to an AT variant mounting a 7.5cm PaK 40. The 234/2 would be somewhat limited in how it could be upgraded, due in part to it being an armoured car with a turret, whereas the half-track 251 offers a much better platform for upgrading.

 

I was referring to the 234, ultimately half tracks were more trouble to maintain than they were worth and so wheeled vehicles replaced them. The Puma (234/2) variant as you said could work just as well as a modern armoured car however, it's turret could be swapped for the 234/1 variant with a 20mm gun which could attack aircraft. There was also the non-turreted infantry support 234/3 variant which proved to be very useful and also the Pak 40 equipped 234/4 which may not be quite as useful nowadays but still capable of knocking out light tanks. Had the war carried on, more variants would probably have been developed upon its versatile chassis.


Nocturnal814 #59 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:44 PM

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View PostUranprojekt, on 24 December 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

 

As did Hellcats, yet you'd still want to use one.

 

better off road ability, fast enough to run away if detected, fast enough to reach the rear or sides if undetected. Yes, I would rather use a hell cat than a half track which could, at best, throw 75mm (mostly infantry guns, derp) shots to bounce off even the weakest of modern armor. 

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Nocturnal814 #60 Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:45 PM

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Or you could always go with the Brazilian Stuart that was up gunned to a 90mm gun

 

 

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