Jump to content


1946 - Hitler's Super Tanks vs Western Armour


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
57 replies to this topic

Metalrodent #1 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:18 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 10186 battles
  • 14,433
  • [KMD]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

So, ignore all realism and history here and say Germany managed to keep fighting into 1946, by which time Hitler's vanity tanks the Maus and E100 would have been produced (and possibly other E series vehicles).

So, my question is, how would these vehicles have actually stacked up against the new Allied armour being produced?

 

For the sake of simplicity the basic question is how would these tanks do against each other in battle?

 

Germany: E100, Maus

Allies: Super Pershing, Centurion mk I, IS-3 

(and there's the successful late war tanks like the Comet and Pershing. Tortoise too if you wanted though was more of a bunker killer).

 

 

 


<a data-cke-saved-href='http://i.imgur.com/sCeAbYa.gif' href='http://i.imgur.com/sCeAbYa.gif' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/sCeAbYa.gif</a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s...sCeAbYa.gif</a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s...bYa.gif</a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s...gif</a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'>http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>

There’s a mask upon my face
I can’t live without
So you won’t recognize me
When I am in the crowd


MrWuvems #2 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:21 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 10629 battles
  • 8,091
  • Member since:
    11-08-2013
The super-heavies get mired in wherever their massive bulk gets them stuck and annihilated by allied air power

Joco3000 #3 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:27 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 27283 battles
  • 28,909
  • [JOCO]
  • Member since:
    08-22-2013

E-100 and Maus was cancelled in 1944. They wouldn't play a part.

The vast number of tanks in the German army would be E-50 Alderwerke and Panzer 38 (d) variants, with a reasonable amount of E-75 Alderwerke and perhaps a few Weserhütte variants of the E-50/75.


 

They would still lose, because the Soviets would have been fielding IS-7s and IS-4s by that point, as both were prototyped in the immediate post-war era. IS-4 was actually prototyped in early 45 I think.

Also, T-54. And the already in production T-44 and IS-3.


You can PM with with questions, if you wish. I don't bite.

Compilation thread of my ideas


Uranprojekt #4 Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:13 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 8338 battles
  • 3,437
  • Member since:
    08-19-2013
By 1946, if the Germans were still fighting, one would seriously have to doubt the fighting ability of any German tanks. Crew and fuel shortages would serve to severely cripple any chance of the Germans being an effective fighting force. Additionally, as German crews were getting worse (and younger) the Allied crews were getting better.

What you'd essentially have in 1946 is a Maus/E-100/E-75/E-50, take your pick really, with no fuel and a badly trained crew going up against vastly superior Allied crews with their, arguably in some cases, better tanks.

Doesn't matter how you cut the mustard, Germany doesn't stand a chance in any scenario in which their paper designs became a reality.

War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

 

I write things, things which can be found in Historical Discussions. Things like this article on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in 1945 and this article on the Spanish Civil War.

 

To those of you who don't molest the English language, I salute you. For everyone else, there's this handy link; http://www.reverso.n...elling-grammar/


Metalrodent #5 Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:17 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 10186 battles
  • 14,433
  • [KMD]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

Ok, I guess the idea of theoretical battles for the fun of it are too much for the people of HD

 

I tried :P


<a data-cke-saved-href='http://i.imgur.com/sCeAbYa.gif' href='http://i.imgur.com/sCeAbYa.gif' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/sCeAbYa.gif</a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s...sCeAbYa.gif</a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s...bYa.gif</a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s...gif</a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'><a href='http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'>http://i.imgur.com/s.../a></a></a></a></a>

There’s a mask upon my face
I can’t live without
So you won’t recognize me
When I am in the crowd


Matthew J35U5 #6 Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:11 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostMetalrodent, on 04 January 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

Ok, I guess the idea of theoretical battles for the fun of it are too much for the people of HD

 

I tried :P

 

Well, 1945 is just an impossible situation for Germany, whether they've got Panthers, E-100's, or Leopard II's. 

 

I don't know what the western allies would do, but I would imagine that for the Soviets, they would pull out some of their high-powered guns that were shelved for lack of anything to shoot them with. IS-4's armed with BL-9's would probably not have that much difficulty with babby German tanks. 

 

Spoiler

 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


Crazedtiger77 #7 Posted 05 January 2016 - 07:26 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 11426 battles
  • 2,420
  • Member since:
    05-17-2014
The Western allies would be using the Centurion and Pershing en masse, meaning even they would be competitive against the E-75 and E-50 tanks. If the Germans had resurrected the E-100 project,  it would have been difficult to knock out but so was the Tiger in 1942 and the allies still won.


MadCat1993 #8 Posted 05 January 2016 - 09:13 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 14250 battles
  • 1,216
  • Member since:
    02-13-2014

View PostMetalrodent, on 04 January 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

Ok, I guess the idea of theoretical battles for the fun of it are too much for the people of HD

 

I tried :P

 

yeah, some of the people on these forums are real buzzkills...you don't have to wonder why some of them spend so much time on forums rather than interacting in life. Back on topic, Germany would have significant victories for most of the war. The tank doctrine the United States army used would be phased out and replaced with the concept of tank on tank combat. Maybe the start of the Main Battle Tank concept? Tanks like the T32 (Pershing's bigger brother) would start to roll out and the Russians would have large amounts of IS-3 and other up gunned versions rolling in from the West.

Uranprojekt #9 Posted 05 January 2016 - 09:58 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 8338 battles
  • 3,437
  • Member since:
    08-19-2013

View Postx1stFWxCRAZYCAT, on 05 January 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

 

yeah, some of the people on these forums are real buzzkills...you don't have to wonder why some of them spend so much time on forums rather than interacting in life. Back on topic, Germany would have significant victories for most of the war. The tank doctrine the United States army used would be phased out and replaced with the concept of tank on tank combat. Maybe the start of the Main Battle Tank concept? Tanks like the T32 (Pershing's bigger brother) would start to roll out and the Russians would have large amounts of IS-3 and other up gunned versions rolling in from the West.

 

Why would IS-3s be attacking Germany from the West? Did the Soviets somehow, you know, theoretically get lost on the way to Germany and up in France?

 

I may be buzzkill but at least I know my way around a compass. :trollface:


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

 

I write things, things which can be found in Historical Discussions. Things like this article on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in 1945 and this article on the Spanish Civil War.

 

To those of you who don't molest the English language, I salute you. For everyone else, there's this handy link; http://www.reverso.n...elling-grammar/


Party Poison91 #10 Posted 05 January 2016 - 10:36 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 16129 battles
  • 2,650
  • [X-OFF]
  • Member since:
    08-22-2013
Ok, I'll have a pop at this. 1946. Germany, on the verge of defeat, begins rolling out its tanks it had hidden in Denmark and pushes the allies out of its borders. Meanwhile in Russia there is a huge vodka shortage where the population had celebrated too early. People begin rioting and questioning wether stalin really could lead the country if he couldn't keep them inebriated. Stalin has to pull soviet forces back as they are plunged into a civil war. In America, president John Wayne is forced to abandon Europe as a far superior Mexican army begins the third battle of the Alamo, now Great Britain stands alone. Desperate for time, prime minister Roald Dahl begins sending wave upon wave of ungrateful colonials to slow the Germans. By 1947 the british super weapon was ready; the TOG III. Boasting 300mm of sloped armour on all sides and a 56 pounder gun it was more than a match for anything the Wehrmacht could throw at it but it also had one secret weapon. Italy, fearing the impact that german tanks could have when driving on their vineyards sent enzo Ferrari to help on the project. The TOG III now boasted 12 Ferrari super engines and was capable of speed of up to 56mph. With a fleet of just 12 of these tanks britain was able to destroy the Wehrmacht once and for all and prove that hitler was a very naughty man.
"That's a typical, shabby NAZI trick!"

MadCat1993 #11 Posted 05 January 2016 - 11:40 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 14250 battles
  • 1,216
  • Member since:
    02-13-2014

View PostUranprojekt, on 05 January 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

 

Why would IS-3s be attacking Germany from the West? Did the Soviets somehow, you know, theoretically get lost on the way to Germany and up in France?

 

I may be buzzkill but at least I know my way around a compass. :trollface:

That was good, I had to chuckle there. Even though it was at myself pretty much.



JAG THE GEMINI #12 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:14 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 66070 battles
  • 2,458
  • [FAUST]
  • Member since:
    02-15-2014

View PostMatthew J35U5, on 05 January 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

 

Well, 1945 is just an impossible situation for Germany, whether they've got Panthers, E-100's, or Leopard II's. 

 

I don't know what the western allies would do, but I would imagine that for the Soviets, they would pull out some of their high-powered guns that were shelved for lack of anything to shoot them with. IS-4's armed with BL-9's would probably not have that much difficulty with babby German tanks. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

And it seems you are one of those who wanks to a BL9... :hiding:

 

And Leopard 2´s would crush any Allied tanks in 1946 dude...

 

@Toipc: In the end this szenario is impossible due to the Atomic Bomb. If Germany had not surrendered in mid 1945 the allies/USA might have used the A-Bomb against germany which would make me "hate" those people even more since this is my homeland.... If Nagasaki and Hiroshima wasn´t enough...


Edited by JAG THE GEMINI, 05 January 2016 - 12:35 PM.

 

 

My youtube channel:https://www.youtube....w_as=subscriber


Uranprojekt #13 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:50 PM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 8338 battles
  • 3,437
  • Member since:
    08-19-2013

View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 05 January 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

 

And it seems you are one of those who wanks to a BL9... :hiding:

 

And Leopard 2´s would crush any Allied tanks in 1946 dude...

 

@Toipc: In the end this szenario is impossible due to the Atomic Bomb. If Germany had not surrendered in mid 1945 the allies/USA might have used the A-Bomb against germany which would make me "hate" those people even more since this is my homeland.... If Nagasaki and Hiroshima wasn´t enough...

 

The Leopard 2 didn't exist in 1946. In fact, the Leopard didn't even exist in 1946 so that point is null and void.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

 

I write things, things which can be found in Historical Discussions. Things like this article on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in 1945 and this article on the Spanish Civil War.

 

To those of you who don't molest the English language, I salute you. For everyone else, there's this handy link; http://www.reverso.n...elling-grammar/


Section47ABH #14 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:55 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 12126 battles
  • 1,849
  • Member since:
    08-08-2015

View Postx1stFWxCRAZYCAT, on 05 January 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

 

yeah, some of the people on these forums are real buzzkills...you don't have to wonder why some of them spend so much time on forums rather than interacting in life. Back on topic, Germany would have significant victories for most of the war. The tank doctrine the United States army used would be phased out and replaced with the concept of tank on tank combat. Maybe the start of the Main Battle Tank concept? Tanks like the T32 (Pershing's bigger brother) would start to roll out and the Russians would have large amounts of IS-3 and other up gunned versions rolling in from the West.

 

Nope.  Allied air and indirect fire killed far more german armour than anything on treads did.  The third reich spent a lot of time whining that enemy air and artillery were OP...

 

Pretty much anything that could have given the Reich a chance in WWII - removal of the bad habit of doing the logistical planning after the operational planning would have been a particularly good start - would have meant it wasn't the Reich and didn't do anything quite so stupid as start the war in the first place.

 

(And the only places they could have scored victories with superheavies were all either in the Fulda Gap or the North German plain... and if you're defending Germany there you've already lost. The superheavy dominates everywhere within direct fire of its main gun, but gets bypassed.  Unless there are enough superheavies to cover the entire front, but if you can produce that many, why are you losing badly enough to need them?)


Terranis Holds.  FOR THE EMPEROR!

Section47ABH #15 Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:59 PM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 12126 battles
  • 1,849
  • Member since:
    08-08-2015

View PostParty Poison91, on 05 January 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

 prime minister Roald Dahl

 

Best.   Laugh.  In. Ages.

 

(Seriously, look up what he was actually doing in that war...  gives Christopher Lee a run for his money for the title of 'most colourfully murky past;)


Terranis Holds.  FOR THE EMPEROR!

Party Poison91 #16 Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:11 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 16129 battles
  • 2,650
  • [X-OFF]
  • Member since:
    08-22-2013

View PostSection47ABH, on 05 January 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

 

Best.   Laugh.  In. Ages.

 

(Seriously, look up what he was actually doing in that war...  gives Christopher Lee a run for his money for the title of 'most colourfully murky past;)

 

Yeah, he was a bad [edited]!
"That's a typical, shabby NAZI trick!"

Matthew J35U5 #17 Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:45 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 05 January 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

 

And Leopard 2´s would crush any Allied tanks in 1946 dude...

Gee, its almost as if the point I was making was that it was irrelevant how superior any German tanks were in 1945, because they were done regardless. Perceptive, aren't you?

Spoiler

 


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


killer etzi0 #18 Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:49 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 60627 battles
  • 19,499
  • [47R]
  • Member since:
    06-20-2014

View PostMetalrodent, on 04 January 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Ok, I guess the idea of theoretical battles for the fun of it are too much for the people of HD

 

I tried :P

 

I was thinking the same thing, but lets say they (Germans) where still fighting, had unlimited fuel, and managed to get some of these into battle... they would have made perfect target practice for the British and US air forces...

Edited by killer etzi0, 05 January 2016 - 04:03 PM.

"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat."

 

Ronald Reagan
 

 


Matthew J35U5 #19 Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:52 PM

    Major

  • Players
  • 14028 battles
  • 12,033
  • [GIRLS]
  • Member since:
    09-09-2013

Wait, I've got it! "What if World of Tanks was real life?"

 

That do it for you? :P


KeystoneCops, on 14 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:


x Gadreel x #20 Posted 05 January 2016 - 04:09 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 14518 battles
  • 428
  • Member since:
    01-04-2014
For the sake LOL lets say Germany didn't have a shortage of fuel and crews. I think the E-50 and the E-75 would stand a chance considering the IS-7 was a auto loader...it would be funny if WG added that lol.

 

All the credit goes to METALHELLIONx84 for this awesome Sig.





3 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users