297 replies to this topic

[Turboclicker]

At one point, I was one of the most active forum users and players. I will not place a rant here.

 

My current and ongoing problem is three-fold. All three stem from a lack of balance in Public Matches.

 

First off, the more important one, games are incredibly lopsided more often than not with one side dominating the other. I rarely have games where both teams seem genuinely balanced and it comes down to critical moments. More often than not, one team just steamrolls the other, and that team could be mine one game, and the red team the next game. The problem with this is I don't feel like I'm contributing all that much either way. If I'm on the winning team, I can do nothing and still win, and if I'm on the losing team, I could get more damage than anyone on either side, get 6 kills, and still lose by 3-4 tanks. I'm not sure how to fix this, but I wish it was fixed regardless.

 

Second, the maps are not the best due to a specific problem. The maps are obviously tailored towards a tank class or two instead of offering options and viability to all five classes. We have plenty of city maps where artillery is crippled, lights are mostly crippled, mediums are not crippled, but are weakened, and heavies and TDs are King. We also have the opposite, field and open maps where Lights, Artilleries, and TDs are in their prime, but Heavies are scared like elephants to mice. That's right, the massive, heavy, well armored and well armed, breakthrough tanks are scared hiding behind bushes because they don't have a role on the map. 

 

I've heard Skorpion Pass is not like this, and that map is genuinely good to all classes, as they have places they can succeed. If so, we need more maps like that, and less maps that restrict how you can play.

 

Third, and this is also a big one, tank balance. This problem is only really present in problematic quantities at tiers VIII through X. The balance below these tiers are generally good. At these tiers however, the game is dominated heavily by specific tanks. The PC game has its own problems with balance, but generally I find it to be the far better game in terms of balance. The main problem tanks at the higher tiers are:

 

• Certain artillery (M53/55, CGC) are too powerful.
• TDs as a whole from tiers VIII-X are too powerful.
• Mediums at tier X, to an extent, are too powerful.

• Heavies, at tier X, are too weak.
• Lights, at tiers VI-VIII, are too weak.

 

This creates an atmosphere that isn't fun to play in. Playing a heavy is an exercise in frustration as TDs run rampant in numbers and are not only your direct counter, but are also able to do your role almost as well. Lights, are pretty much replaced by mediums entirely as tier VIII lights don't do much a tier IX or X medium can't do. Mediums are a problem because they do the light's job too well, but also because of how good they are in general. Their penetration is second to only TDs and their playstyle and ability works better than any other class at this tier. I don't know how to fix mediums. Artillery as a whole I find to be a bad game mechanic, but they aren't unbalanced mostly, except for the M53/55 and CGC at this tier. 

 

Of course this is all my opinion, but I do find it to be entirely correct and informed.

 

This thread is only here to hopefully show WG what quite a few players are thinking, and to hopefully improve their game for the better. 

 

I also know this post won't do much, but I wanted to make it anyway.

 

Please show your support if you agree, it is the only way to make progress, even if it is unlikely.

[CowboyArizona]

Well written, but don't quit, just adapt.  (well, quit if you want, but you're an amazing player, so you'll find success wherever you choose to go)

[John Arrowsmith]

What you have said is generally correct apart from the Bulldog, I would consider this to be OP. 

[NightOfDeaths]

Turboclicker, on 16 March 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

At one point, I was one of the most active forum users and players. I will not place a rant here.

 

My current and ongoing problem is three-fold. All three stem from a lack of balance in Public Matches.

 

First off, the more important one, games are incredibly lopsided more often than not with one side dominating the other. I rarely have games where both teams seem genuinely balanced and it comes down to critical moments. More often than not, one team just steamrolls the other, and that team could be mine one game, and the red team the next game. The problem with this is I don't feel like I'm contributing all that much either way. If I'm on the winning team, I can do nothing and still win, and if I'm on the losing team, I could get more damage than anyone on either side, get 6 kills, and still lose by 3-4 tanks. I'm not sure how to fix this, but I wish it was fixed regardless.

 

Second, the maps are not the best due to a specific problem. The maps are obviously tailored towards a tank class or two instead of offering options and viability to all five classes. We have plenty of city maps where artillery is crippled, lights are mostly crippled, mediums are not crippled, but are weakened, and heavies and TDs are King. We also have the opposite, field and open maps where Lights, Artilleries, and TDs are in their prime, but Heavies are scared like elephants to mice. That's right, the massive, heavy, well armored and well armed, breakthrough tanks are scared hiding behind bushes because they don't have a role on the map. 

 

I've heard Skorpion Pass is not like this, and that map is genuinely good to all classes, as they have places they can succeed. If so, we need more maps like that, and less maps that restrict how you can play.

 

Third, and this is also a big one, tank balance. This problem is only really present in problematic quantities at tiers VIII through X. The balance below these tiers are generally good. At these tiers however, the game is dominated heavily by specific tanks. The PC game has its own problems with balance, but generally I find it to be the far better game in terms of balance. The main problem tanks at the higher tiers are:

 

• Certain artillery (M53/55, CGC) are too powerful.
• TDs as a whole from tiers VIII-X are too powerful.
• Mediums at tier X, to an extent, are too powerful.

• Heavies, at tier X, are too weak.
• Lights, at tiers VI-VIII, are too weak.

 

This creates an atmosphere that isn't fun to play in. Playing a heavy is an exercise in frustration as TDs run rampant in numbers and are not only your direct counter, but are also able to do your role almost as well. Lights, are pretty much replaced by mediums entirely as tier VIII lights don't do much a tier IX or X medium can't do. Mediums are a problem because they do the light's job too well, but also because of how good they are in general. Their penetration is second to only TDs and their playstyle and ability works better than any other class at this tier. I don't know how to fix mediums. Artillery as a whole I find to be a bad game mechanic, but they aren't unbalanced mostly, except for the M53/55 and CGC at this tier. 

 

Of course this is all my opinion, but I do find it to be entirely correct and informed.

 

This thread is only here to hopefully show WG what quite a few players are thinking, and to hopefully improve their game for the better. 

 

I also know this post won't do much, but I wanted to make it anyway.

 

Please show your support if you agree, it is the only way to make progress, even if it is unlikely.

I agree on most of this, but the light tanks. 

[Not that proud]

I really want to say something like, "who cares?" and move on with my life, but I don't want to become a malcontent here as some others seem to have.

So, let me respond to all three points:

First, it's a 15 X 15 team game. There are going to be games you lose even when you do well and games you win even when you do poorly. I don't think that is a problem with WOT.  It's just a problem with team games and individual performance. If we were playing basketball, I can have a triple double in a loss. Or I can shoot 1/15 in a win. What change could possibly affect that?  

Second, I don't see how you can really design a map that is perfectly balanced for each class. The best map in the game balanced for all classes is maybe South Coast. How much do you like that map?  Second would probably be Erlenberg. Do you like that map?

Part of what WG has done is take the maps and use those as a balancing tool for the classes, so this bleeds into your third point.  I have to be honest and say the balance issues in the game don't bother me. I don't agree that high tier lights are too weak. Some of them are pretty brilliant to play actually.

But let's address the high tier TDs.  What makes them overpowered? On the PC, they nerfed view range, pen, and damage. Are those the real problems with high tier TDs? Or is it the maps?  What would happen if the maps weren't corridors that forced people to face high tier TDs frontally?  Would you then complain that high tier TDs don't get fair maps like you did in your second point?

At some point, we're going to have to accept that not every map can be perfectly balanced for all classes. And we're going to have to accept that the enemy will be able to destroy you no matter what tank you get in. And you're going to have to accept that the outcome of any particular game will be partially dependent on your team.

If high tier TDs were so overpowered, no one would play anything else. And yet people do. I don't regularly see Waffles. They are strangely rare to me. As are E4s. E3s are more common, as are 183s and JPE100s. But every tier ten game I get in typically has an E5 or an IS-7 or an E 100 and usually there are several mediums.

My least favorite class right now is mediums.  I can do more in a light than I can in a medium.  People who argue that mediums can do everything a light can but better simply don't know what they're talking about.

I don't think the game is perfect as is, but I don't want them to slavishly follow what the PC has done with balance, and I don't think addressing the balance issues are all that simple. For me, I would just like to see more open maps. Scorpion pass would be cool, but anything at 1500x1500 would be awesome.

[Turboclicker]

CowboyArizona, on 16 March 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Well written, but don't quit, just adapt.  (well, quit if you want, but you're an amazing player, so you'll find success wherever you choose to go)

 

There is no way to adapt, only to accept, and I do not want to play a game as frustrating as this one in its current state.

[HailofSteel]

What is Skorpion Pass.I keep hearing this.Is it a map? Anyway its not  so much that certain tanks are favored  on certain maps as it is that maps tend to favor one team in particular.Assault matches where the attackers have open ground  they have to cross while the defense gets hull down cover.But there is something to be said about the matchmaker.You have one team getting three Batchats as the only top tier and the other getting two JagPanzers and a Tortoise.I will put my money on the Batchats to outflank those tds and make them look like idiots.

[Not that proud]

HailofSteel, on 16 March 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

What is Skorpion Pass.I keep hearing this.Is it a map? Anyway its not  so much that certain tanks are favored  on certain maps as it is that maps tend to favor one team in particular.Assault matches where the attackers have open ground  they have to cross while the defense gets hull down cover.But there is something to be said about the matchmaker.You have one team getting three Batchats as the only top tier and the other getting two JagPanzers and a Tortoise.I will put my money on the Batchats to outflank those tds and make them look like idiots.

 

Scorpion Pass is currently a PS4 exclusive map. It is the largest map in any version of the game at 1500 m X 1500 m. 

[SpartacusDiablo]

I just hang around in tier VI and drive mediums. This seems to negate a lot of the issues you presented.

[BlewOffMyLegOff]

I don't understand how WGA think tier 10 TDs are balanced. They can do close to everything that the other classes can do. 

[DEPLOYING DUMPS]

If two teams were truly even and one team knocked two tanks out off the bat from luck/skill whatever, the game would be a roll for the team with more tanks and it would appear they were unbalanced.

 

Look at clan battles, the game is a roll when a few tanks are down.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DEPLOYING DUMPS, 16 March 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[KaitoGhost]

I loathe agreeing with Dumps on anything, but he brings up a valid point.

[ThermalStone]

That's a big wall of text for a game you're about to stop playing.  

 

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that many games that end with a lopsided score are actually closer than they appear.  Whichever team can concentrate their fire better will usually build an advantage that snowballs.  The loss of even a single tank early can put a team at a firepower disadvantage and cause the game to appear one sided later.

[KaiserVonKrieg]

Agreed with everything.

The only thing keeping me here is the tournaments that have minimal prizing but are just fun to play.

 

[CowboyArizona]

Turboclicker, on 16 March 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

There is no way to adapt, only to accept, and I do not want to play a game as frustrating as this one in its current state.

 

In some ways there is an answer embedded within your own original message.  Playing within the mid-tiers.  Where the balance still remains.

[vVMr GoodCatVv]

Good post icesev.

[Turboclicker]

CowboyArizona, on 16 March 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

 

In some ways there is an answer embedded within your own original message.  Playing within the mid-tiers.  Where the balance still remains.

 

Which isn't fun for me. See: Can't adapt.

[Turboclicker]

DEPLOYING DUMPS, on 16 March 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

If two teams were truly even and one team knocked two tanks out off the bat from luck/skill whatever, the game would be a roll for the team with more tanks and it would appear they were unbalanced.

 

Look at clan battles, the game is a roll when a few tanks are down.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't give any way to fix said problem, as I don't know how.

 

If you used the skill based MM idea, you could simply only attempt to bring the range more towards the mean, and not attempt to actually fully balance matches.

[Turboclicker]

ThermalStone, on 16 March 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

That's a big wall of text for a game you're about to stop playing.  

 

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that many games that end with a lopsided score are actually closer than they appear.  Whichever team can concentrate their fire better will usually build an advantage that snowballs.  The loss of even a single tank early can put a team at a firepower disadvantage and cause the game to appear one sided later.

 

I haven't played this game regularly in a couple months. That point is long gone.

 

By lopsided, I am referring to an obvious difference in skill and performance. The end game scoreboard ccanb show this off where one team generally has an OK performance with some top performers, and one team is generally goose egging with the occasional good player. Steamrolls are the problem.

[quadrider101]

I will add one other issue. Platoons, lately have been 3-4 artys per team. This is a huge problem. When they are on a make that is good for them you can't enjoy your game. When they are on a map that is not arty friendly a 3rd of your team is useless. Same can be said for any tank class really. Too many of one class is not fun for anyone.