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Dr Bodge #21 Posted 22 August 2016 - 01:21 PM

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View PostLasting__Damage, on 20 August 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

As someone who does not have any well trained crew, do you think it is wise to purchase food sparingly? It is 50 gold, but it does seem to really impact a tanker's effectiveness on the battlefield. At the moment I am parked between tier IV-V and trying to aquire crew skills. I have used the nation drops on my Soviet crews in order to get some Prem time as well as the rations and really notice an improvement on my tank in game. 

 

I just oust wanted to thank you again and let you know that your map guide and this one is very appreciated by a new console player like me, I can only imagine the time it takes to post these and want you to know I read them over and over...the map guides are amazing and a resource WG should try to make as visible as possible in the general section of the forum.

 

Please God No! Don't spend gold on food.

 

I am not arguing you shouldn't put money into this game (someone has to), but you should at least try to get value for money. As pingwrx says, you can buy food for silver if you really want it and if you aren't generating enough silver profit to buy ammo then you don't need it.

 

You haven't been playing this game long so you should be aware that most of the opportunities you have to spend gold (which is real money) in this game are extremely poor value for money. Some of the worst offenders are, in no particular order; Exchanging gold for silver, Converting XP, Camo and paying gold for consumables. Good uses of gold are buying premium time, most premium tanks and dismounting equipment.

 

Example: With £70 you could buy either 1 years membership or enough food consumables for 500 games. Alternatively converting free XP that same amount would buy you 625K XP. With 1 years membership you should get at least 20K more silver per game which means you could pay for food for an entire year which, even for a part-time player like me, could easily add up to 4 or 5,000 games. At the same time you would also gain 50% extra XP for each of those 4K games giving an unremarkable player (with average of 500 XP per game) a total of 1,000K additional XP.

 

It is worth thinking about what you want from the game. Are you intent upon achieving high stats or, alternatively, collecting a large garage of tanks? It is important because these two approaches are largely contradictory and will require a quite different approach to the game. Maybe you don't want to do either? Either way you should avoid spending much money on the game until you have decided two things; can you see yourself playing this game for a long time and what your goals within the game are going to be. I would recommend playing a few thousand games (at least 3) and reaching at least tier 5 before committing to a particular path. Whichever you decide to do, understanding the silver economy is crucial. If you choose to grind out a lot of tank lines lack of silver will be a constant problem and unless you are already a pretty good (and experienced) player then food is a huge waste of resources.

 

 

 

 


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Lasting__Damage #22 Posted 29 August 2016 - 11:54 PM

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View PostDr Bodge, on 22 August 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

Please God No! Don't spend gold on food.

 

I am not arguing you shouldn't put money into this game (someone has to), but you should at least try to get value for money. As pingwrx says, you can buy food for silver if you really want it and if you aren't generating enough silver profit to buy ammo then you don't need it.

 

You haven't been playing this game long so you should be aware that most of the opportunities you have to spend gold (which is real money) in this game are extremely poor value for money. Some of the worst offenders are, in no particular order; Exchanging gold for silver, Converting XP, Camo and paying gold for consumables. Good uses of gold are buying premium time, most premium tanks and dismounting equipment.

 

Example: With £70 you could buy either 1 years membership or enough food consumables for 500 games. Alternatively converting free XP that same amount would buy you 625K XP. With 1 years membership you should get at least 20K more silver per game which means you could pay for food for an entire year which, even for a part-time player like me, could easily add up to 4 or 5,000 games. At the same time you would also gain 50% extra XP for each of those 4K games giving an unremarkable player (with average of 500 XP per game) a total of 1,000K additional XP.

 

It is worth thinking about what you want from the game. Are you intent upon achieving high stats or, alternatively, collecting a large garage of tanks? It is important because these two approaches are largely contradictory and will require a quite different approach to the game. Maybe you don't want to do either? Either way you should avoid spending much money on the game until you have decided two things; can you see yourself playing this game for a long time and what your goals within the game are going to be. I would recommend playing a few thousand games (at least 3) and reaching at least tier 5 before committing to a particular path. Whichever you decide to do, understanding the silver economy is crucial. If you choose to grind out a lot of tank lines lack of silver will be a constant problem and unless you are already a pretty good (and experienced) player then food is a huge waste of resources.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply, Doc!

 

I finally figured out I can simply spend 20k on food, large repair kit, et al. I usually plop some food on my tier V Rus and German crew trainers for my x2 and only keep going if I have cleared some descent coin,

 

I have never been bothered by sending WG money over the past 3 years, but I was foolish in the past and am guilty of swapping my XP and skipping early tier tanks when I grind new lines. I started on PC, was horrid for the 600-700 games I played until work swatted away my pixel tanking on company machines. I was never a gamer before tanks, I couldn't frame an argument to the wife for purchasing a descent rig, so I downloaded Blitz on the iPad and played that for a year and a half.

 

I was ok in Blitz. I was recruited by a clan, but am one of those players that enjoys being a lone wolf. I am not a stat chaser--I try not to even look at my stats. It was very hard not to when I started console, it is still hard realizing I am one of those sub 50% players who are the reason they lose more then they win. But I was able to lift myself from 46%, low damage, low survivability on Blitz. I decided to buy a PS4 because I missed the big maps and the 15v15 meta. I also hated hit skins on Blitz. I prefer to focus on a nation and the most common tanks I will face in my battle tiers I mostly play. Here this tier spread is mostly IV-V. Since I never broke 1k on PC, I don't even consider my play there even the same game, I had no idea why I kept dying from "invisible tanks." I played 2k on the RU server and 8k on the NA server and mostly enjoyed tiers VI-IX. 

 

I see this game as an unusual version of Team Chess. A fluid, point of view game of chess in which 70% of your allies as well as enemies think they are playing checkers and don't even bother to learn the role each tank class shoukd play on the "board." Because chess was the only online game I enjoyed before tanks, I see this game through the filter of my other love, chess. This is why guides like yours are so valuable to me--they provide my "opens." Just as chess has many opens that have developed over hundreds of years, our maps (the board in which we play) have spots that--like a chess open--provide commanding spots on the maps that can provide control over a key portion of the map. Because of the randomness of team make up and variety of maps and tanks, I find tanks more challenging and a great deal more fun then chess. The depth this game provides is intoxicating, yet I also understand some people just like driving cool looking pixel tanks and shooting other cool looking pixel tanks.

 

Mahalo!


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TocFanKe4 #23 Posted 28 September 2016 - 12:39 AM

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View PostDr Bodge, on 19 August 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

Part 2: Effective Tier & Performance

 

 

Based on our line of best fit we can estimate the effect on WN8 of a given boost in (standardised) DPG. We have previously calculated that the use of Premium and Food should give a boost of around 14% in DPG. The associated increase in WN8 we would expect to see is around 22%.

 

 

That's very interesting.  Just based on my own observations, I noticed that I was getting about 20% more WN8 by running premium ammo and premium consumables.  I didn't do any involved calculations.  I just did a ballpark estimate of how much extra WN8 I seemed to be getting by using the consumables over not using them.  I've posted a few times on the forum that I thought spamming premium ammo and using premium consumables gave you something like a 15-20% boost to WN8.  It's on the lower end if you just use premium ammo, and the higher end if you use both.  I feel good about my very rough estimate now.  Thanks for the calculations. :)

 

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Dr Bodge #24 Posted 28 September 2016 - 02:13 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 28 September 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

 

That's very interesting.  Just based on my own observations, I noticed that I was getting about 20% more WN8 by running premium ammo and premium consumables.  I didn't do any involved calculations.  I just did a ballpark estimate of how much extra WN8 I seemed to be getting by using the consumables over not using them.  I've posted a few times on the forum that I thought spamming premium ammo and using premium consumables gave you something like a 15-20% boost to WN8.  It's on the lower end if you just use premium ammo, and the higher end if you use both.  I feel good about my very rough estimate now.  Thanks for the calculations. :)

 

That is indeed very interesting.

 

When two completely different sources of information agree it adds credibility to both of the sources. The approach I used is really only able to reveal overall tendencies and it would be unwise to try to infer too much about individual tanks. By using aggregate data I inevitable am averaging across maps, abilities and play-styles. Some individuals will be able to exploit this advantage more and some less. The more constrained a map the less flexibility it offers the more of an advantage premium ammo will be. The converse is also true Similarly to fully take advantage of food (in particular) you need to be surviving for as much of the match as possible. The advantage it confers is marginal but global. The more you do, shoot, drive, spot, the greater its effect on the game.

 

What matters, though, is the scale of the effect. If it were 5% or less, we could safely say there was no element of pay to win. Similarly if the effect were as high as 50% we could have little doubt that spending on the game gave you an unfair advantage. As it turns out we are somewhere in the middle. The game isn't really pay to win, but it is difficult to argue that it isn't possible for many players to buy measurably* better stats.

 

* not hugely but noticeably.


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WhoDrankMyBeers #25 Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:15 PM

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interesting reading here guys

 


NoobHunter31 #26 Posted 30 October 2016 - 03:44 PM

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This is fascinating research.  According to it if in my T 34-88 I swap GLD with Vents than I should see a noticeable  increase in performance right?

 


Dr Bodge #27 Posted 30 October 2016 - 04:56 PM

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View PostNoobHunter31, on 30 October 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

This is fascinating research.  According to it if in my T 34-88 I swap GLD with Vents than I should see a noticeable  increase in performance right?

 

Thanks. It took some time.

 

I would hesitate before saying it will definitely increase performance because that depends on your play-style and the tank in question. As a statistician I am conditioned to avoid ever making absolute statements so what I would say is that on average, switching GLD to Vents should make your tank slightly better. You may not notice the difference but you are trading a noticeable advantage in one area for a slight increase in overall tank quality. The benefit would only be of the order of a couple of % of WN8 though.


Edited by Dr Bodge, 30 October 2016 - 04:56 PM.

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TocFanKe4 #28 Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:08 PM

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I came back to this thread trying to look at the effects of binoculars for a different discussion in GD, but I see that they weren't part of the presentation here.  I guess I'd think that they would give a similar boost as optics, but the amount of the boost might be different due to having to wait to activate them. 

 

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Dr Bodge #29 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:08 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 20 March 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

I came back to this thread trying to look at the effects of binoculars for a different discussion in GD, but I see that they weren't part of the presentation here.  I guess I'd think that they would give a similar boost as optics, but the amount of the boost might be different due to having to wait to activate them. 

 

I'm sorry my guide was less than comprehensive.

 

I didn't think about it, at the same time as I was considering the impact of consumables (first aid kits, repair kits). The problem was that they don't add a fixed and stable bonus to the tank performance. As such they can't simply be considered as boosts to the tank stats, unlike Vents or Optics, which do (simply boost performance). Binos are not simply a 25% increase in vision. If they were they would be completely OP, right up there with Premium Ammo in terms of effectiveness.

 

In truth they are contextual. On some maps they are hugely effective (e.g. Malinovka, El Halluf) but on others, not so much (e.g. Himmelsdorf, Ensk). It also depends on your competence and play style. You need to know exactly what you can get away with and where the extra range will matter. In short it is very easy to fail to properly benefit from them. Finally it depends on the Red team. If they are competent, or are also scouting using Binos it can be very difficult to get established in a good spotting position in the first place due to the activation delay in camo net and binos. 

 

 

 

 


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sumplkrum #30 Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

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My observation from this thread is that the Jack of all Trades skill can become hugely important, as it allows you to run food without bothering with a first-aid kit - thus giving you a huge improvement in overall tank performance.

Is it also possible to calculate the improvement for using premium kits (such as repair), instead of the small kits?

Would also be interesting to see which skills have a bigger impact on performance improvements; ie, Off-Road Driving, Smooth-ride, or Snapshot ... etc.

Edited by sumplkrum, 21 March 2017 - 02:01 PM.

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TocFanKe4 #31 Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:11 PM

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View PostDr Bodge, on 21 March 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

 

I'm sorry my guide was less than comprehensive.

 

I didn't think about it, at the same time as I was considering the impact of consumables (first aid kits, repair kits). The problem was that they don't add a fixed and stable bonus to the tank performance. As such they can't simply be considered as boosts to the tank stats, unlike Vents or Optics, which do (simply boost performance). Binos are not simply a 25% increase in vision. If they were they would be completely OP, right up there with Premium Ammo in terms of effectiveness.

 

In truth they are contextual. On some maps they are hugely effective (e.g. Malinovka, El Halluf) but on others, not so much (e.g. Himmelsdorf, Ensk). It also depends on your competence and play style. You need to know exactly what you can get away with and where the extra range will matter. In short it is very easy to fail to properly benefit from them. Finally it depends on the Red team. If they are competent, or are also scouting using Binos it can be very difficult to get established in a good spotting position in the first place due to the activation delay in camo net and binos. 

 

 

 

Well, it's not all bad.  Re-reading this thread caused me to bump it up again, and also use it as a reference in a thread in GD about the usefulness of Spall Liner.  Perhaps with the reorganization of the forum it will get more views now. 

 

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sumplkrum #32 Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:42 PM

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The other thing I find interesting in looking at your "Increase in Tier associated with enhancements" chart, is that the Gun Rammer is losing out to Optics, Vents and Vert Stabs.
The idea of removing a Rammer would seem to be blasphemy to most.

Edit: actually forget I said that ... the black lines are max values, correct? ... so dpm does beat aim-time.

Edited by sumplkrum, 21 March 2017 - 03:44 PM.

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TocFanKe4 #33 Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:45 PM

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View Postsumplkrum, on 21 March 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

The other thing I find interesting in looking at your "Increase in Tier associated with enhancements" chart, is that the Gun Rammer is losing out to Optics, Vents and Vert Stabs.
The idea of removing a Rammer would seem to be blasphemy to most.

Edit: actually forget I said that ... the black lines are max values, correct? ... so dpm does beat aim-time.

 

The black bars are the precision of the calculation.  So the end of the blue bar is the average value, plus or minus the black bar.  Some show high variability, perhaps meaning the parameter is really important on some tanks and not important on others.  Others show small variation, meaning that it gives a consistent boost on most tanks.  View range shows very high variability.  To me this reflects that some tanks are highly dependent on view range, while it doesn't matter at all on others.  A scout vs artillery is one example of this difference. 

 

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Huncho_Mystic #34 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:19 PM

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Bumping this fantastic analysis prompted me to find the good Dr's map guides as well-

Thanks for effort and information!







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