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Dad's Army - How useful would the Home Guard have been?


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WidowMaker1711 #21 Posted 04 December 2016 - 01:56 AM

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View PostNiles Y93, on 03 December 2016 - 11:23 PM, said:

 

I could say something in regards to recent events, but I want to keep things civil so I shall not mention it. I trust you know what I refer to, Widow, and that I don't have to explain it.

 

All I will say is that it's possible, and has been proven.

 

Oh yes. But its still a contentious issue even now. Its still a Did they Didnt they issue. Without time travel I dont think we'll ever know what actually happened. Its too full of Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda and Whatifs to be explored rationally. And yes it will never be a civil conversation and I hope you'll agree its one we leave to Scholars and ill educated ghouls looking to make money out of one of the 20th Centuries biggest military tragedies.


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Knight of Annwn #22 Posted 04 December 2016 - 07:45 PM

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With Mallory's 12 Group being kept up North and the Fleet being at Scapa Flow the channel would have been a killing ground for the German landing dinghies, fishing boats and barges. While the Home Guard was not the youngest of men, many of them had seen service in the hell known as WW 1, so they knew how to fight.

 

And if all else fails we would have opened the gates on Hadrian's Wall and let the Scots out...:ohmy::izmena:


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CatlinkX #23 Posted 06 December 2016 - 05:06 PM

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I think that even a fat old combat veteran, such as a WWI vet in the home guard might be, might still be able to shoot pretty straight, actually be kind of dangerous.  They might not be to much in maneuver but might be able to hold a bunker or pill box as well as anyone.

NSW Mntd Rifles #24 Posted 08 December 2016 - 11:34 PM

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View PostSnapshot4321, on 07 December 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

I think that even a fat old combat veteran, such as a WWI vet in the home guard might be, might still be able to shoot pretty straight, actually be kind of dangerous.  They might not be to much in maneuver but might be able to hold a bunker or pill box as well as anyone.

 

Never under-estimate an old bastard, or an army of old bastards.

WidowMaker1711 #25 Posted 08 December 2016 - 11:42 PM

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View PostNSW Mntd Rifles, on 08 December 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

 

Never under-estimate an old bastard, or an army of old bastards.

 

Especially a grumpy ANZAC old bastard??

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NSW Mntd Rifles #26 Posted 13 December 2016 - 03:08 AM

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View PostWidowMaker1711, on 09 December 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

 

Especially a grumpy ANZAC old bastard??

 

Too right mate.

Knight of Annwn #27 Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:05 PM

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This sight would have terrified the SS and paratroopers if this lot charged at them....

 

Posted Image:teethhappy:


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PLK180W #28 Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

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View PostKnight of Annwn, on 13 December 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

This sight would have terrified the SS and paratroopers if this lot charged at them....

 

Posted Image:teethhappy:

 

Yeah, for as about as long as it took them to [edited]the Spandau.
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xlch69 #29 Posted 28 February 2017 - 02:45 AM

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The Viet Cong fought US forces, and the French before them using guerrilla tactics to great effect.  I'm quite sure the home guard, even armed with wwI era rifles (such as the Wehrmacht was also issued K98 rifles), would have put forth a valiant effort, especially considering England is an island, making it easier to defend.

WPCatfish #30 Posted 28 February 2017 - 03:45 AM

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View PostKnight of Annwn, on 04 December 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

And if all else fails we would have opened the gates on Hadrian's Wall and let the Scots out...:ohmy::izmena:

 

Probably a violation of the Geneva Convention.



Sqn Ldr B #31 Posted 28 February 2017 - 04:00 PM

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View Postxlch69, on 28 February 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

The Viet Cong fought US forces, and the French before them using guerrilla tactics to great effect.  I'm quite sure the home guard, even armed with wwI era rifles (such as the Wehrmacht was also issued K98 rifles), would have put forth a valiant effort, especially considering England is an island, making it easier to defend.

 

Nothing wrong with a WW1 rifle, a rifle's still a rifle. There wasn't even much difference between the rifles of WW1 and WW2. Pretty much the only difference between the SMLE Mk. III and the No.4 rifle was barrel length and the style of the business-end of the weapon. It still had the same (excellent) action and ten-round magazine. I don't think the K98 was WW1-era, maybe you're confusing it with the Gewehr 98? I believe the Karabiner 98k was very much influenced by it. They had the same action as each other, if I remember rightly.

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lem891 #32 Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:14 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 28 February 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

Nothing wrong with a WW1 rifle, a rifle's still a rifle. There wasn't even much difference between the rifles of WW1 and WW2. Pretty much the only difference between the SMLE Mk. III and the No.4 rifle was barrel length and the style of the business-end of the weapon. It still had the same (excellent) action and ten-round magazine. I don't think the K98 was WW1-era, maybe you're confusing it with the Gewehr 98? I believe the Karabiner 98k was very much influenced by it. They had the same action as each other, if I remember rightly.

The Karabiner 98k is pretty much just a carbine version of the Gewehr 98 with better sights, the internal action is identical between the two, some Kar 98k's were made from the receivers of the G98. 



xlch69 #33 Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:25 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 28 February 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

Nothing wrong with a WW1 rifle, a rifle's still a rifle. There wasn't even much difference between the rifles of WW1 and WW2. Pretty much the only difference between the SMLE Mk. III and the No.4 rifle was barrel length and the style of the business-end of the weapon. It still had the same (excellent) action and ten-round magazine. I don't think the K98 was WW1-era, maybe you're confusing it with the Gewehr 98? I believe the Karabiner 98k was very much influenced by it. They had the same action as each other, if I remember rightly.

 

I stand corrected sir, I meant M98 - which was one of the designations of the Gewehr.  The K series (carbine) was a carbine version with the same action and other improvements over the Gewehr.  Keep in mind, by 1940 the US was already in full production of the M1 Garand, which at the time outclassed the K98.  I'm sure they would have made it into British hands if the German's had succeeded in a full scale ground force invasion of the British mainland.

Sqn Ldr B #34 Posted 28 February 2017 - 09:54 PM

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View Postxlch69, on 28 February 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

I stand corrected sir, I meant M98 - which was one of the designations of the Gewehr.  The K series (carbine) was a carbine version with the same action and other improvements over the Gewehr.  Keep in mind, by 1940 the US was already in full production of the M1 Garand, which at the time outclassed the K98.  I'm sure they would have made it into British hands if the German's had succeeded in a full scale ground force invasion of the British mainland.

 

I'd have certainly hoped so. The Home Guard had already received stocks of M1917 Enfields from the Americans and Ross Rifles from the Canadians, so hopefully aid from across the Atlantic would have been forthcoming.

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Fling da cheese #35 Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:39 AM

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You have to remember several things, people when fighting for their homes are extremely deadly, look at Vietnam and the Viet Cong, they were basically farmers and they wrecked havoc among the American troops and before them the French troops, then think about all around the world how civilian "armies" have taken over countries, China for example during WWII, usurped and ran out Chiang Kai Shek and they were peasants! So never under estimate the power of civilians that are properly motivated. All throughout history there are stories about this kind of thing happening, its very not uncommon.

PLK180W #36 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:50 AM

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The one thing that is certain,  is that if the Germans had invaded, it would have been a vicious,  bloody affair. 

 

To be perfectly honest, whilst the resistance would have been brutal, in the end I think the invasion could have been successful. 

 

 

We left too much material in France, tanks, artillery, AT guns and even motor transport was in very short supply and a lot of what was available was obsolete.


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Sqn Ldr B #37 Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:58 AM

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View PostPLK180W, on 01 March 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

The one thing that is certain,  is that if the Germans had invaded, it would have been a vicious,  bloody affair. 

 

To be perfectly honest, whilst the resistance would have been brutal, in the end I think the invasion could have been successful. 

 

 

We left too much material in France, tanks, artillery, AT guns and even motor transport was in very short supply and a lot of what was available was obsolete.

 

The real problem is getting past the RN, then managing to take and hold a beachhead that you can get a continuous supply through, and then managing to break out as quickly as possible so you can use the whole Blitzkrieg thing. There's no use in taking Dover or Portsmouth and then just getting bogged down with all your tanks sitting about, because there you can be quite easily crushed. There would probably have been extensive use of paratroopers to make it effective, which of course means winning the Battle of Britain.

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Niles Y93 #38 Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:39 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 28 February 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

I'd have certainly hoped so. The Home Guard had already received stocks of M1917 Enfields from the Americans and Ross Rifles from the Canadians, so hopefully aid from across the Atlantic would have been forthcoming.

Please tell me you got the Huot Automatic Rifle and not the original Ross, because if that was the case, you got screwed in that deal.



WidowMaker1711 #39 Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:50 PM

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View PostSqn Ldr B, on 01 March 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

 

The real problem is getting past the RN, then managing to take and hold a beachhead that you can get a continuous supply through, and then managing to break out as quickly as possible so you can use the whole Blitzkrieg thing. There's no use in taking Dover or Portsmouth and then just getting bogged down with all your tanks sitting about, because there you can be quite easily crushed. There would probably have been extensive use of paratroopers to make it effective, which of course means winning the Battle of Britain.

 

In 1940 there would have been little reason to take Dover. The only way out of the port itself would have been either along the railway line to Folkestone or up Castle Hill Road. Not a good route for either tanks or infantry.


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UTU2TM #40 Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:09 PM

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I would think that having a home force would at least have prepared for units returning for the defense of England. Defensive positions dug, supply points distributed throughout & stockpiling, communications networks prepared. Probably a thousand other things the home force could prepare and staff until relief came.

Given enough time, a home force could be very effective. Train folks for specific skills, medical, cooking that could be done for large amounts of people, repair units, construction units. If you are going to have skilled masons & carpenters you could use their remaining skills, and they could also train others.






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