19 replies to this topic

[Pontiac Pat]

Right now the game has seven re-skinned tanks.  Six of those come with permanent camo, the Ripper does not.  What I don't know is - Does the displayed camo value in game include the effect of the permanent camo that came with the tank?

 

Why do I ask?  Because two of these duos display identical values while the other 4 do not.  I'm trying to figure out which is actually the better tank.  Here is the detailed list:

 

Tank            Stationary/Moving

T1E6-X        .25/.19

T1E6-X1      .28/.19

T7 Car         .24/.18

Fox              .24/.18

Ripper/E4 (not permanent camo)

T26E4         .23/.17

Freedom     .23/.18

FCM 50 t     .08/.04

Liberte        .08/.04

Motherland .32/.25

T-54 Proto  .29/.22

KV-5           .05/.03

Gorynych   .06/.03

 

I am guessing that these are all base values and as such the re-skins are actually the listed value plus the permanent camo value.  That being the case, it appears that the re-skins are, in 4 out of 6 cases, better than their base model counterparts.

 

If the opposite is true, and these numbers include the permanent camo that came with the re-skins, then it means the X1, Fox, Freedom, Liberte and Gorynych are all actually worse than their base model counterpart once you add camo to them.

 

I'm curious whether the Black Series will have a small base camo buff as well?

 

Can anyone confirm whether I'm understanding these numbers correctly?

Edited by Pontiac Pat, 22 November 2016 - 11:08 PM.

[Pontiac Pat]

I know there is a lot of other stuff going on right now, but if Max or someone could confirm whether I'm understanding this correctly I'd appreciate it.

[MaxChaos24]

Q: Does the displayed camo value in game include the effect of the permanent camo that came with the tank?

- A: Yes it does. 

[DarkVenator]

So Pat, based on that answer, which one is better?

and how did you get the Fox???????

[USSWISCONSIN94]

DarkVenator, on 22 November 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

So Pat, based on that answer, which one is better?

and how did you get the Fox???????

 

Neither are better than the other as both can have Camo. However. if you have the same tank T34 "Black" and normal T34. T34 "Black" is going to have better camo if the normal T34 doesn't have Camo on it. But knowing we don't have the numbers. Just an idea.

[DarkVenator]

T26E4 & Freedom have almost identical values, then you paint the SuperP and it should have better camo. or is that the wrong assumption?

[Pontiac Pat]

MaxChaos24, on 22 November 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

Q: Does the displayed camo value in game include the effect of the permanent camo that came with the tank?

- A: Yes it does. 

Thank you.  My private training room tests confirm this to be the case.  It means that the X1, Fox, Freedom, Liberte, Motherland and Gorynych are all actually worse than their base model counterparts with purchased camo.

DarkVenator, on 22 November 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

So Pat, based on that answer, which one is better?
and how did you get the Fox???????

See above.  As for the Fox, that was for participation in the All-Star match during the WCL playoffs.

Edited by Pontiac Pat, 23 November 2016 - 01:32 AM.

[iPotato Famine]

DarkVenator, on 22 November 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

T26E4 & Freedom have almost identical values, then you paint the SuperP and it should have better camo. or is that the wrong assumption?

That's what it would seem to me

[JelliedPenny08]

Sorry, but surely the figures have to be wrong because some of the figures are the same? Only some?

I'm not questioning you Pat - I think you're right, but I think the figures are awry somehow. 

 

The Motherland/T54P is as expected because both stationary and moving figures change. This shows that the Motherland has included camo, with better figures, but the T54P doesn't. Presumably they are the same once the T54P is painted, but that's a separate argument for now. (difference 0.03 between the tanks)

 

The Liberte has the same figures as the unpainted FCM, suggesting that it's 'distinctive, patriotic' camouflage is not working. Worse you can't apply camo over the top, but probably paid extra for that privilege in gold as part of the bundle. (difference 0.00 between the tanks)

 

With the Freedom/T26E4 only the moving numbers change suggesting that the Freedom paint doesn't work while stationary. However the moving figures only change by 0.01, so it could be down to a rounding error (the difference is less than 0.01 and/or too small to display). But that also seems wrong because the Motherland differences for both static and moving are 0.03.  (difference between the tanks 0.00 static, 0.01 moving)

 

That can't be correct as the differences on this site are quite large between base tank and and camo painted :- http://www.wotinfo.n...camo-calculator

Give it a try for the FCM50t and T26E4 tanks, the values change for static or moving when you add camo paint (even for firing). They change by a significant, similar amount. 

Has our console camo paint been nerfed? Is it a mistake? or are we looking at it wrong?  

[Pontiac Pat]

That's why I'm bringing it up.  It may well be that someone messed up in either the implementation or in the in-game display.  I would have expected to see an obvious pattern, but they seem to be a bit all over the place.

[LeftTurnus]

It would be nice to have a definitive answer for console.

Thanks for bringing this up and I hope at some point WG comes forward with  some detailed info.

 

[Pontiac Pat]

OK, a couple of my fellow 47R went into a training room with me and we ran several experiments.  All experiments used new 50% crews and identical equipment/consumables.

 

First, T1e6-x and t1e6-x1

With no camo, the X was spotted first, by the appropriate 3% greater distance.

With camo, the X1 was spotted first, by about 1%. (showing light tanks to get a 4% boost from camo)

 

Second, Motherland and T-54 Proto

With no camo, the Proto was spotted first, by the appropriate 3% greater distance.

With camo, the Motherland was spotted first, by about 1%. (showing medium tanks to get a 4% boost from camo)

 

Third, FCM 50 t and Liberte

With no camo, they were spotted at the same distance.

With camo, the Liberte was spotted first, by about 2% greater distance. (showing heavy tanks to get a 2% boost from camo)

 

This confirms - in game - that the numbers shown in the garage do, in fact, include the permanent camo bought with the re-skins.

***This also confirms, as a result, that in EVERY case the base version is actually the better tank!***

Finally, this confirms that light and medium tanks get 4% from purchased camo, while heavies get 2%. (which is slightly more than the 3% lights/mediums on PC get, according to wotinfo)

Edited by Pontiac Pat, 23 November 2016 - 01:24 AM.

[leova]

Pontiac Pat, on 22 November 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

OK, a couple of my fellow 47R went into a training room with me and we ran several experiments.  All experiments used new 50% crews and identical equipment/consumables.

 

First, T1e6-x and t1e6-x1

With no camo, the X was spotted first, by the appropriate 3% greater distance.

With camo, the X1 was spotted first, by about 1%. (showing light tanks to get a 4% boost from camo)

 

Second, Motherland and T-54 Proto

With no camo, the Proto was spotted first, by the appropriate 3% greater distance.

With camo, the Motherland was spotted first, by about 1%. (showing medium tanks to get a 4% boost from camo)

 

Third, FCM 50 t and Liberte

With no camo, they were spotted at the same distance.

With camo, the Liberte was spotted first, by about 2% greater distance. (showing heavy tanks to get a 2% boost from camo)

 

This confirms - in game - that the numbers shown in the garage do, in fact, include the permanent camo bought with the re-skins.

***This also confirms, as a result, that in EVERY case the base version is actually the better tank!***

Finally, this confirms that light and medium tanks get 4% from purchased camo, while heavies get 2%. (which is slightly more than the 3% lights/mediums on PC get, according to wotinfo)

 

thanks for doing the math!

[Chlorthulhu]

Wow, thanks for looking into that so thoroughly.

With all the stuff going on here, i must say that it is sad to feel once more screwed over by wg...

Not only are some of my previously purchased premiums suddenly made inferior than their unexpected rarer versions, but i also feel misled as to the advertisements regarding the painted versions of these tanks, as nowhere was it ever mentioned that the actual camo values would differ between the normal or painted version (with camo applied). Guess i trusted Pauley too much...

Thanks for the hard work and diligence, OP

And wg, really?!

[Gallant Prime]

In one of the early days of the armor viewer I had similar questions--here (forgive my weirdness).  The best answer I got was "rounding."  I also asked about the Centennial since the moving and stationary APPEAR the SAME. I am not sure why Max didn't provide you with the same answer he provided me via mail.  If I could better quote it I would, but here is copy and paste he said:

"

Sent: 17 October 2016 - 08:35 AM

Hello, 

 

For the Centennial, you will see the displayed number for moving/still as the same, but they are not. It's just appears that was since it only displays up to 2 decimal places and is rounded to the nearest X.XX value.  

 

This also goes for the Freedom vs SP. The Freedom does have a higher Stationary and Moving camo value than the SP. 

 

-Max 

 "

[Pontiac Pat]

I read your PM and it is answering a somewhat different question.  I can understand how rounding would affect the minor apparent difference between the Freedom and T26E4 or between the KV-5 and the Gorynych.  Max is looking into whether the camos were applied correctly.  Given the rounding argument I think there is a fair chance that someone coded it wrong.  For example, on a Medium it should add .04, but what may have happened is that they only gave it .004.  It would be different enough to affect rounding.  The Motherland / T-54 Proto look correct at first glance, as .03 is what PC gets for camo paint on a medium.  However, our testing showed conclusively that we get .04 on our mediums and lights.  Looking at the x vs x1, I am thinking they got it right for the stationary number but wrong on the moving number.  The other two - T7/Fox and FCM/Liberte may simply be a small enough difference with the extra decimal that they still round the same.  Let us hope that they'll spot the errant decimals and correct them promptly.

 

On a related note, Max assures me he has personally checked the Black Edition tank's camo values and that they take the Black camo paint into account correctly.

[ThatDread18]

I believe when permanent camo became available on PC (the GF tanks) the rating of the camo was only 3% not the 5% for the normal camo you purchase.

[Pontiac Pat]

Time to bring this back up.  Now that I have the Black Series tanks in my garage I have checked and none of them are showing the correct camo values.  The STA-2 Black at least shows a .03 bump, but testing shows that the bump for mediums is actually more than that.  As was mentioned above, the .03 is likely a leftover from PC and does NOT reflect what a medium on console gets for paid camo.

 

Max, please file a ticket for this!

[YoPapa59]

Again, thanks for looking at the "premium" tank side.

[Pontiac Pat]

Just thought I'd let you all know the premium pre-skinned tanks are all now showing the camo values with their camo-skins included.  Heavies got .02, while Lights and Mediums got .03.  (I need to run new tests to see if the .03 is actually the same as what the purchased camo gives - purchased camo was giving more than that before they 'fixed' the values)

 

Tests run - the light/medium values are still bugged.  I'll send you details via PM.

Edited by Pontiac Pat, 06 December 2016 - 03:19 AM.