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WOT - understanding the mentor skill

mentor skill excel

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Black RL #1 Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:52 PM

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World of Tanks - understanding the mentor skill v1.3 (Excel file in the end!)

 

This work is aimed towards the console community, both Xbox and Playstation.  
 
Author  
 
Black RL  
 
TLDR  
 
if you don't want to spend 10 gold (0.04$) on this game you can safely ignore mentor.  
 
- Don't use mentor if you don't want to spend 10 gold  
- Don't use mentor if you only need a couple of skills, for example 4, or, use it but do understand you're only saving a couple of hours  
- Use mentor if you want to reach a certain number of skills faster, note that during that period you are behind in 1 combat skill, when you swap you automatically get on front by number of skills and saved time  
- You can use mentor as a mean to train the first skill faster, for example sixth sense, train mentor first then swap it for sixth sense  
- Training mentor and then swap it is the quickest way to train a skill, you can do it as many times as you want, this is perfect for perks    
 
Definition of mentor and BIA according to the official PC wiki  
 
Mentor is a skill in world of tanks that grants an additional 10% crew xp per game when completed, in the official wiki you can read:  
 
"For every 1% of the Training Level of the Commander's Mentor Skill, all crew members except the Commander himself, receive an amount of 0.1% additional experience at the end of every battle, up to a maximum of 10% each when the Mentor Skill reaches 100%. If the Commander's Mentor Skill Training Level increases during the battle, the crew will benefit from the increase."  
 
BIA improves the mentor skill by 5%, in the official wiki you can read:  
 
"The Brothers in Arms (aka BIA Perk) increases by a fixed 5%, the Training Level of each one of the crew members in their Major Qualification and in any of the common Skills (Repair, Firefighting, and/or Camouflage) they may have acquired. It also improves the Commander's Mentor Skill by 5%. The BIA Perk does not have any effect on other role-specific Skills or Perks, and provides no benefit whatsoever unless all of the crew have it trained to 100%. It does stay in effect if a crew member is knocked out during battle. The effect of the BIA Perk is cumulative with that of any installed Improved Ventilation equipment and with any purchased crew Skills boosting consumables such as Extra Combat Rations, Case of Cola, Chocolate, Pudding and Tea, Strong Coffee, and.or Improved Combat Rations."  
 
Source: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Crew  
 
Assumptions in our example (can be changed by you in the sheet "Tables" )
 
- 100k crew xp to reach first skill  
- 1k crew xp per game  
- 5 minutes time per game  
- First trained skill is sixth sense  
- Third trained skill is repairs  
- Second trained skill is mentor  
- Fourth trained skill is BIA  
- Goal of 8 skills  
 
You can change assumptions in the yellow boxes in the sheet "Tables", you might have to wait for changes to take place, it's a huge Excel sheet.  
 
Disclaimer  
 
Gold cost, number of skills and other metrics might change but conclusions are the same.  
 
Analysis and conclusion  
 
There's a lot of confusion regarding mentor, I hope this analysis ends it once and for all.   
 
First let's discuss the important notion of combat skills, mentor is not a combat skill because it doesn't improve your tank combat performance in any way, it only accelerates crew xp earnings. If you choose to train mentor instead of another skill you will be behind in combat skills until you swap mentor, let's imagine that you have 2 crews, one has mentor and the other doesn't have it, both have a total of 8 skills, the result in combat skills is:  
 
No mentor: 8 skills total, 8 combat skills  
With mentor: 8 skills total, 7 combat skills + mentor  
    
To have the same number of combat skills mentor needs to train an additional skill:  
 
No mentor: 8 skills total, 8 combat skills  
With mentor: 9 skills total, 8 combat skills + mentor  
 
If you check table C) in the "Tables" sheet, you can clearly see that the crew using mentor will always need more time to reach the same number of combat skills, this is because it has to train an additional skill when compared to the no mentor crew.  
 
With this out of the way let's dive deeper in the matter at hand, you can see in the table A) of the "Tables" sheet that in order to make all 32 skills you have to do 102,000,000 xp, with the above assumptions this equals to 102,000 games and 8,500 hours, something like 354 days playing, this is not realistic. Because of this in our analysis we're going to talk about reaching 8 skills, so let's see what mentor can do for us, checking the table B) we can see that mentor trains 8 skills in 91.75 hours vs 100 hours no mentor, this saves you 8.25 hours and 99 games.  
 
But what about the total number of combat skills? Since mentor is no combat skill in reality you have 7 combat skills + mentor, checking table C) you can see that mentor needs an additional 21.92 hours and 263 games to reach 8 combat skills (7 combat skills + mentor = 9 skills total).  
 
So is mentor useless? Not really, mentor does in fact train skills faster as you can see in the table B), but in order to take advantage of this you have to change mentor for another skill using gold when you reach your goal. This is because mentor helps train the total number of skills faster and not the total number of combat skills, In this example if you swap mentor for another skill the moment you reach 8 skills, you save 8.25 hours and 99 games compared with no mentor. After the swap you will be forever in front of the no mentor crew both in combat skills and time, you can check the graphic below to see it better (handmade, sorry).  
 
Ultimately it comes down to a simple question, is your time worth 0.04$? 

 

Mentor timeline

 

World of Tanks - understanding the mentor skill.zip (choose to proceed without making an account)

 

Edit: v1.3 is up!

 

v1.3 - typos corrected, added clarifications, table B) and C) expanded

 

v1.2 - separated sheets, many added explanations, supported minimum crew xp is now 700, mentor benefits while training mentor are now included, mentor can't be changed, formula optimization, table b) now shows saved xp with mentor, table b) now shows minutes and hours, table c) now shows all the lost time if mentor is never swapped, BIA benefits are included

 

v1.1 - assumptions can be changed, crew xp (500 minimum), time, mentor %, mentor train and skills goal

 

v1.0 - release


Edited by Black RL, 26 January 2017 - 12:13 PM.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


ralfybaby62 #2 Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:05 PM

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Neat.

My problem however remains with the assumptions.

Mentor will always take up a spot like Repairs or Track Mechanic whcih may keep you in the game longer allowing you to earn more xp.

Or Camo, recon, or silent driving which may allow you to remain undetected so you can earn more xp

Or snap shot, dead eye, or smooth drive (whatever that one is called) which may allow you to shoot better and pen more often and do more damage so you can earn more xp

Or JOAT and Pain Tolerance, which keep your crew members alive longer so that instead of a health pack you can put an fire extinguisher on your tank which may prevent you from going up in smoke and keep you in the game longer and earn more xp or bring optics or binocs which may allow you to spot a red before he does you so you can stay in the game longer and earn more xp .....

 

I realise this is basically intangible and difficult to calculate. 

 

The proof of the pudding is to take a number of crews, start from scratch, use the same tanks, and see who gets to a certain number of tanks first. A prospective study so to say. Problem is there are so many factors here you would need a LOT of tanks to do that with for it to reach statistical signficance. 

 

 


Edited by ralfybaby62, 13 January 2017 - 08:08 PM.


DARTH TETRIS #3 Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:06 PM

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Haven't opened the excel, but reading your thoughts it seems you have done a thorough job. One quick tip, Skills count maxes out at 25. Even though there are more, you can only get 25 skills.


And yes, the summary of it is Mentor will never pay off on its own, at some point, you will have to pay to switch it out in order to be better off skillwise.

It brings up 2 questions though:

  1. Are you willing to pay 10 gold per crew to save some time on X number of skills you are going for?
  2. Would you have performed better with a combat skill during the 13k mins of gameplay to earn enough extra XP to offset mentor?


Ronin Gaidin #4 Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:16 PM

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Nobody can truly understand Mentor. It is a mysterious and powerful skill, and its mystery is exceeded only by its power. 

Black RL #5 Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:19 PM

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View Postralfybaby62, on 13 January 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

Neat.

My problem however remains with the assumptions.

Mentor will always take up a spot like Repairs or Track Mechanic whcih may keep you in the game longer allowing you to earn more xp.

Or Camo, recon, or silent driving which may allow you to remain undetected so you can earn more xp

Or snap shot, dead eye, or smooth drive (whatever that one is called) which may allow you to shoot better and pen more often and do more damage so you can earn more xp

Or JOAT and Pain Tolerance, which keep your crew members alive longer so that instead of a health pack you can put an fire extinguisher on your tank which may prevent you from going up in smoke and keep you in the game longer and earn more xp or bring optics or binocs which may allow you to spot a red before he does you so you can stay in the game longer and earn more xp .....

 

I realise this is basically intangible and difficult to calculate. 

 

The proof of the pudding is to take a number of crews, start from scratch, use the same tanks, and see who gets to a certain number of tanks first. A prospective study so to say. Problem is there are so many factors here you would need a LOT of tanks to do that with for it to reach statistical signficance. 

 

 

 

Correct, that's why we start with the obligatory 6s.

 

About the benefit, don't forget that since you reached your goal first (if you choose to use mentor and swap it), after that you have the advantage of already having the combat skills, don't forget you reach your goal 19.75 hours sooner.

 

During that hours you're using new combat skills vs the no mentor. Imo, the most important thing is choosing a goal and starting with the most important skills first, we can all agree that some skills are not that important, but time always is.

 

View PostDARTH TETRIS, on 13 January 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

Haven't opened the excel, but reading your thoughts it seems you have done a thorough job. One quick tip, Skills count maxes out at 25. Even though there are more, you can only get 25 skills.


And yes, the summary of it is Mentor will never pay off on its own, at some point, you will have to pay to switch it out in order to be better off skillwise.

It brings up 2 questions though:

  1. Are you willing to pay 10 gold per crew to save some time on X number of skills you are going for?
  2. Would you have performed better with a combat skill during the 13k mins of gameplay to earn enough extra XP to offset mentor?

 

Thanks, I've been doing this in my spare time during this week.

 

It seems you can only get 25, my older model accounted for that, but in the end the results are the same, you have to swap mentor.

 

1 - Maybe in some tanks, thats the beauty of it, you can choose!

2 - Maybe, but what about all the time you get for getting to your goal first? You have to account for both options! Also, you just have to make the more important skills first.


Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Black RL #6 Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:21 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 13 January 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Nobody can truly understand Mentor. It is a mysterious and powerful skill, and its mystery is exceeded only by its power. 

 

Ahahahahahahah! :D

 

In order to make 32 skills (or 25 doesn't really matter) you will lost approximately 300 hours if you use mentor and don't swap it. If you have the time and motivation check the Excel file!


Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


STEVEN S33 SKA #7 Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:28 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 13 January 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

 

Ahahahahahahah! :D

 

In order to make 32 skills (or 25 doesn't really matter) you will lost approximately 300 hours if you use mentor and don't swap it. If you have the time and motivation check the Excel file!

 

Well as you've played under a thousand games in your highest tank it looks like I will beat you to the top skill in my Churchill III with Mentor!

Edited by STEVEN S33 SKA, 13 January 2017 - 08:28 PM.

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themikegolf #8 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:06 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 13 January 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Nobody can truly understand Mentor. It is a mysterious and powerful skill, and its mystery is exceeded only by its power. 

"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

i always swap out Mentor for Perks but train skills on their own since skills start working once you start training them (relative to the percent trained) but Perks aren't effective until 100%. right or wrong , it appears to work best for me. the $10 Gold for the swap is worth it.



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Wroclaw #9 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:15 PM

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View Postthemikegolf, on 13 January 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

i always swap out Mentor for Perks but train skills on their own since skills start working once you start training them (relative to the percent trained) but Perks aren't effective until 100%. right or wrong , it appears to work best for me. the $10 Gold for the swap is worth it.

 

the boost that mentor gives is long term

 

swopping it out & re-earning it diminishes the advantage it gives

 

dont swop it out untill you have reached your desired number of skills



JAG THE GEMINI #10 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:19 PM

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nice read

 

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moonwhistle #11 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:25 PM

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It's always better to have an active skill that improves the performance of your tank, even when training them. Mentor essentially nerfs your tank in order to gain xp a little faster.

Wroclaw #12 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:32 PM

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View Postmoonwhistle, on 13 January 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

It's always better to have an active skill that improves the performance of your tank, even when training them. Mentor essentially nerfs your tank in order to gain xp a little faster.

 

the first part is true

 

the second part however isnt entirely accurate. because your not gaining a "little" faster. 

 

from skill 9 to 12 you have saved yourself from having to earn 160,000 xp if you have mentor

 

& 13 to 16 you have saved having to get 320,000 xp



STEVEN S33 SKA #13 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:36 PM

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View PostWroclaw, on 13 January 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

 

the first part is true

 

the second part however isnt entirely accurate. because your not gaining a "little" faster.

 

from skill 9 to 12 you have saved yourself from having to earn 160,000 xp if you have mentor

 

& 13 to 16 you have saved having to get 320,000 xp

 

exactly, I think the funny thing is the people who keep asking about this will obviously never achieve this 25 skill cap which is entirely possible to do

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Wroclaw #14 Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:40 PM

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your giving up an immediate gain in order to have a long term gain

STEVEN S33 SKA #15 Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:05 PM

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You have a bank account, they offer 10% interest. You don't want that because you didn't get mobile phone insurance. You take the mobile phone insurance instead. The extra 10% would have bought you another one at the end of the year. Smart people don't break there phone and take the 10% everyone else is staring at their phones.

 

This is what Mentor provides! its the long term goal


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moonwhistle #16 Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:42 PM

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From crew skill 13 onwards progress is so slow as to be irrelevant imo.

KillerDNA #17 Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:46 PM

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View Postmoonwhistle, on 13 January 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

From crew skill 13 onwards progress is so slow as to be irrelevant imo.

 

but that's when it really starts making a difference. 

it's about stacking. with an elite tank you get 25% bonus crew XP. add mentor for 35% boost. 10% isn't a huge deal with the way console crews improve but it makes a difference.


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Wroclaw #18 Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:14 AM

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View Postmoonwhistle, on 13 January 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

From crew skill 13 onwards progress is so slow as to be irrelevant imo.

 

mentor isnt needed from skills 1 - 4

 

its advantage is greatest for the long-to-get ones

 

so from skill 13 onwards the mentor user is going to have an ever greater advantage



ll SkagPipe ll #19 Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:16 AM

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View PostWroclaw, on 13 January 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

 

the boost that mentor gives is long term

 

swopping it out & re-earning it diminishes the advantage it gives

 

dont swop it out untill you have reached your desired number of skills

The boost that mentor gives is an artificial delay of 90+ games in getting my next skill. Then I have to spend 10 gold so that I can delay my next skill again.



KillerDNA #20 Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:20 AM

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View Postll SkagPipe ll, on 13 January 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

The boost that mentor gives is an artificial delay of 90+ games in getting my next skill. Then I have to spend 10 gold so that I can delay my next skill again.

 

why are you wasting money to delay something again? you must be doing it wrong. 

either keep mentor early on to switch out around skills 17+ or just don't get it at all.


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