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Should the Chieftain get a armor buff ?


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Big Yeash #61 Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:13 PM

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View PostSGT Hawkens117, on 20 March 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

I am plenty good with the MK6 but it's turret gets creamed by arty and premium ammo and the hull is only good at hull down even then it gets penned.

 

"It would be nice if it had the hull armour in real life"

"The hull is only good at hull down"

 

That second statement is more or less British tank design philosophy of the entire Cold War.

Even if it did have a 120mm LFP, it'd still be easily penetrated by other guns at tier.


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R35T NO MORE #62 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:55 PM

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View PostSGT Hawkens117, on 20 March 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

Bullcrap arty has a hard on for tanks I try and get MoE on and arty priorities stationary targets which you have to be stationary to be hull down so don't give me that S$&@ 

 

Stationary targets? If arty only focus you when you are still then you have no right to complain at all. They shoot me regardless and use prem HE to splash me if i try to hide. Should the T29, Centurions etc all get a buff as they are hull down tanks too?

SGT Hawkens117 #63 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:57 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 20 March 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

 

Stationary targets? If arty only focus you when you are still then you have no right to complain at all. They shoot me regardless and use prem HE to splash me if i try to hide. Should the T29, Centurions etc all get a buff as they are hull down tanks too?

The point of the statement is everyone is saying that it should be used hull down but you have to stay slow to still to do that so no F$$$ Sherlock.



R35T NO MORE #64 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:58 PM

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View PostSGT Hawkens117, on 20 March 2017 - 11:57 PM, said:

The point of the statement is everyone is saying that it should be used hull down but you have to stay slow to still to do that so no F$$$ Sherlock.

 

No you don't. Fire and move. If you just sit there then you get what's coming to you. 

R35T NO MORE #65 Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:02 AM

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Sounds like you want it to be impenetrable when hull down, be arty proof and have armour to protect it when in the open. You want an E5 with an OP gun it seems. 

SGT Hawkens117 #66 Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:39 AM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 21 March 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

Sounds like you want it to be impenetrable when hull down, be arty proof and have armour to protect it when in the open. You want an E5 with an OP gun it seems. 

No the E5 is actually OP athe MK6 is underpowered the only truly good thing is the gun.



W 4 L K U R E #67 Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:42 AM

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I second this. Turret armor buff pls. It can have tin foil for armor for all I care. Just make the T110e3s stop penning my turret above the gun with AP. 

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RagingxMarmoset #68 Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:47 AM

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View PostSGT Hawkens117, on 20 March 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

No the E5 is actually OP athe MK6 is underpowered the only truly good thing is the gun.

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SPCCN #69 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:06 AM

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While this tank does perform on par with the E5 it is ideologically a different tank. E5 is an anvil, like the E100 VK45.02B, and the Chieftain is a scalpel. You cannot use the tanks the same. You cannot even hull down the same because the Chieftain's turret has a hole above the gun that will kill crew members and a basketball hoop where the cupola is supposed to be to lob shells into.

 

You cannot use a dull scalpel for it's intended purposes the same way you cannot use a Chieftain when its ammo rack is constantly knocked out and the gunner killed. Where as even in it's destroyed state the E5 still performs its role of bullet sponge perfectly well.

 

While having everything is a problem for balance, having at least some LFP armour (100mm if not the player preferred 120mm) to protect the ammo rack and the elimination of the "rainbow warrior" turret to a more uniform 210mm-230mm is a reasonably balanced approach.


Tanks must always push the battle, maneuver terrain, gain position, coordinate, and devastate the enemy.

Play like a TANK not a pill box! No tower defense!

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R35T NO MORE #70 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:49 AM

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View PostSGT Hawkens117, on 21 March 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

No the E5 is actually OP athe MK6 is underpowered the only truly good thing is the gun.

Underpowered? Good mobility, 10 degrees of gun depression, very low profile enabling it to go hulldown behind even small cover or inclines, and enough turret armour to bounce rushed shots (no one should be able to fully aim as the Chieftain can aim, fire, and move before most tanks have finished aiming)  and then it has the amazing gun that some tier X medium tanks don't even have the gun handling, rof or dpm of.. Including the Centurion action X. The tank certainly isn't underpowered and it's performance shows that. 



JustinOfTheUSA #71 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:54 AM

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I've faced several chieftains before, usually in my E5, the tophatch is so damn big and squishy, pissing on the top hatch may bend the medal a bit, I feel the turret could use some help

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RagingxMarmoset #72 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:25 AM

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I'm not willing to give up any of the gun handling for an armor buff. 

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R35T NO MORE #73 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:01 AM

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View PostRagingxMarmoset, on 21 March 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'm not willing to give up any of the gun handling for and armor buff. 

This. 



SPCCN #74 Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:03 PM

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I don't think there is a need to give up gun handling for this trade. The sides are still week, the increase in the LFP isn't shell stopping, it would only allow for slightly more protection to the ammo rack and the occasional bounce of a rushed shot. No addition to the UFP. The turret can be its own compromise so that gun handling isn't affected. Instead of insisting that the entire thing have 250mm it could be a more uniform 235mm, which is LESS than the T-62A, but with the angling it would remove the vision port weakness and the catastrophic whole above the gun.

 

Then if the E5 ever gets it's cupola nerfed there would be no reason to argue for more than a 15mm buff to the Chieftain's cupola

 

View PostRagingxMarmoset, on 21 March 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

I'm not willing to give up any of the gun handling for an armor buff. 

 


Edited by SPCCN, 21 March 2017 - 06:03 PM.

Tanks must always push the battle, maneuver terrain, gain position, coordinate, and devastate the enemy.

Play like a TANK not a pill box! No tower defense!

This is WORLD OF TANKS!

 


R35T NO MORE #75 Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

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View PostSPCCN, on 21 March 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

I don't think there is a need to give up gun handling for this trade. The sides are still week, the increase in the LFP isn't shell stopping, it would only allow for slightly more protection to the ammo rack and the occasional bounce of a rushed shot. No addition to the UFP. The turret can be its own compromise so that gun handling isn't affected. Instead of insisting that the entire thing have 250mm it could be a more uniform 235mm, which is LESS than the T-62A, but with the angling it would remove the vision port weakness and the catastrophic whole above the gun.

 

Then if the E5 ever gets it's cupola nerfed there would be no reason to argue for more than a 15mm buff to the Chieftain's cupola

 

 

 

It would be completely OP, that's why a trade would be needed. It can still be very effective hull down as it is atm. It can't just sit there like an IS-7 but it's still strong. 

R35T NO MORE #76 Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:32 PM

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The main issues with a Chieftain buff are that it would render the 215b completely pointless as well as nearly every other hull down tank, and it would make the Chieftain a nightmare for tanks below tier X. We can't just compare it to the E5, tier 8s have to face it and that has to also be considered. Just trying to balance tier Xs against other tier Xs is bad and is why we have the OP E5. 

YoMen I LoveYa #77 Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:37 PM

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Surprisingly, none of you excellent players mentioned one simple fact. WG creates tanks and battlefields for these tanks. Unfortunately, the logic behind the two creations is by definition "sick". Actually, there are no more than a few consistent maps and tanks. In my opinion this is due to the laziness of the WGCB and nothing else. Not many recent updates have caused more confusion in long-term player plans than benefits, such as this topic.
My conclusion is based on the long forgotten by WGCB simplicity. By creating a "modern tank" you can not count on "specific oriental maps". This is just an example. Some "haunted" man makes suggestions or pushes them at the WGCB and, unfortunately, more and more often suffers from the they decisions playing WoT.
I assume the idiots will ask what I'm writing about, so I'll ignore them by definition. Those who can read between the lines understand without further explanation where the real problem with this game lies.

Edited by YoMen I LoveYa, 21 March 2017 - 06:42 PM.


SPCCN #78 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:48 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 21 March 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

The main issues with a Chieftain buff are that it would render the 215b completely pointless as well as nearly every other hull down tank, and it would make the Chieftain a nightmare for tanks below tier X. We can't just compare it to the E5, tier 8s have to face it and that has to also be considered. Just trying to balance tier Xs against other tier Xs is bad and is why we have the OP E5. 

 

Yes it can still be effective hull down as its primary deployment method, but it is not reliable. I can see the issue with the annexation of the 215b, but I'm skeptical because there are so many tanks at T10 that allow for diverse play. If, for example, the new German heavy line is introduced to console I don't think we need to shake and mourn that other tanks aren't being played as much as they used to. I feel for the struggle of T8 tanks in T10 matches, especially if the player can't afford to fire gold rounds all game to overcome the armour disadvantage. T8's are always going to be relegated to support tank when they are the -2.

Tanks must always push the battle, maneuver terrain, gain position, coordinate, and devastate the enemy.

Play like a TANK not a pill box! No tower defense!

This is WORLD OF TANKS!

 


USSWISCONSIN94 #79 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:07 PM

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An increase of 6mm to the 38mm of the side isn't going to make it OP IMO. Makes no sense for it to have armor that any 120mm and up can pen.

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DustyHooves #80 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:21 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 21 March 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

The main issues with a Chieftain buff are that it would render the 215b completely pointless as well as nearly every other hull down tank, and it would make the Chieftain a nightmare for tanks below tier X. We can't just compare it to the E5, tier 8s have to face it and that has to also be considered. Just trying to balance tier Xs against other tier Xs is bad and is why we have the OP E5. 

 

The problem is in your post. Tier 8's (excluding arty and some lights) shouldn't ever have to face tier X. Then you could balance it a little.




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