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What Ideas were taken from the Axis Germany?

As far as you know

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TWISTED METAL V #1 Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:01 PM

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WWII ends, atrocious acts aside(I'm looking at You Russia!) many developments from Germany have been made in Tanks, Guns, Rockets & aircraft, from this I only know it Helped produce the famous STG-44 look alike AK-47, helped get man to the moon, and was successful in producing jets(but was also being worked by U.K but Jerry's deployed first), But surely there's more than that, I'm mainly looking to see if German tanks influenced improvements or innovations in RU, U.S, U.K, France, or Other countries in their tank designs but any other innovations that were influenced by German technology and or creations are welcomed information, as I'm trying to get as much information as possible to see what was taken from WWII, "Taken" as in ideas or innovations/Inventions.

 

 

You know for what little they had & for lasting 6 year's, It's not impossible to think others would want to be as powerful.:harp:


Edited by TWISTED METAL V, 20 March 2017 - 11:12 PM.

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KanonFyodor #2 Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:07 PM

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Guided weapons. The Germans developed the Fritz X, a radio controlled glide bomb so I guess technically it's a "smart bomb". It was the first precision guided munition ever deployed in combat and the first guided weapon to sink a ship.

TWISTED METAL V #3 Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

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View PostKanonFyodor, on 20 March 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

Guided weapons. The Germans developed the Fritz X, a radio controlled glide bomb so I guess technically it's a "smart bomb". It was the first precision guided munition ever deployed in combat and the first guided weapon to sink a ship.

Damn, didn't know that. thanks.:hiding:


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Metalrodent #4 Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

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Well yes, the most significant was probably the V2 rockets and the space race, whereby Nazi scientists who had helped murder thousands were being rehired by the US and Russians lol.

 

German tanks despite their fame didn't really do much afterwards, the Centurion and T-54 prototypes were in production by 1945 and were of a much more modern design that's still in use today. The French did take some influence from German tanks postwar, as seen by a lot of their 50s designs, but again it was the AMX 30 and 13 that became the successful ones, which had very little to do with German armour.

They did pioneer early night vision devices in the Panther, and as Kanon said they did create the first guided weapon.

 

Also Britain had jet aircraft by 1945 too, so not something that can really only be credited to the Germans.


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TWISTED METAL V #5 Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:13 PM

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View PostMetalrodent, on 20 March 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Well yes, the most significant was probably the V2 rockets and the space race, whereby Nazi scientists who had helped murder thousands were being rehired by the US and Russians lol.

Also Britain had jet aircraft by 1945 too, so not something that can really only be credited to the Germans.

I remember both countries racing to put out jet air craft,(forgot both the german & British manufacturers) but they did get jets out in combat first but by then It was too late.:)


Edited by TWISTED METAL V, 20 March 2017 - 11:18 PM.

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lem891 #6 Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:55 PM

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Well not a lot of ideas were actually taken from Germany. Only the Soviet Union gained the most from the German missile program, the US had scientists working on it before the war, Robert Goddard layed the foundations for Germany's work(after he saw a V-2 he complained that they had stole his work, and von Braun even credited him) and to pretend that rocketry hadn't been conceived and tested by anyone else is kinda oversimplifying the matter. Also the AK-47 wasn't a STG rip off, they share very little in the way of internal design characteristics as well as a whole other number of differences. German Engineers were however involved in streamlining the AK-47 for mass production and helping the Soviets develop their steel stamping techniques (the Soviets were very bad with mass production believe it or not).  Lots of other innovations either came around too close to their Allied alternatives like jets and night vision to be called a German innovation. Thier only real credit is the Fritz X and precision munitions.   

MudRaker227 #7 Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:28 PM

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The black batwing Horten 229 of early 1945 had recently been proven to be capable of partial radar cross-section attenuation, basically the world's first operational stealth fighter. It had 40% of the frontal rcs of a BF109, allowing it to get 25% closer before being spotted on radar scopes. And at a speed of 620 mph, that would have allowed it to get disasterously close in on target. Another swept-wing design proposal basically amounted to a Mig 15 prototype.

 

Allied designs were not even close to being in the same league..... :trollface:



Big Yeash #8 Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:58 PM

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View PostKanonFyodor, on 20 March 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

Guided weapons. The Germans developed the Fritz X, a radio controlled glide bomb so I guess technically it's a "smart bomb". It was the first precision guided munition ever deployed in combat and the first guided weapon to sink a ship.

 

This concept later expanded to the first air-launched anti-ship missile with the Henschel Hs293 guided missile, operating on similar principles to the Fritz-X which was merely a steered glider bomb.

 

Broad concepts that German arguably pioneered include the General Purpose Machine Gun, with the use of large, but man-portable, medium machine guns at the infantry section that could be carried as a personal weapon, or mounted on a tripod bracket to provide a heavier field of sustained fire. The MG42 of course provided substantial inspiration (though many of the mechanical components derived from the FG42 automatic rifle) for the US M60, later superseded by the M420 (FN MAG machine gun).


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TWISTED METAL V #9 Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:17 PM

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Unfortunate about the tanks not inspiring much but it's not surprising, specially since they over engineered them after Panzer IV, But at least Abrams uses a 12cm(120mm) gun from the Leopard 2 but that's way long after WWII, I would think that the torc.bars were innovative but it probably was already in use.

Edited by TWISTED METAL V, 20 March 2017 - 11:19 PM.

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Big Yeash #10 Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:32 PM

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View PostTWISTED METAL V, on 20 March 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

Unfortunate about the tanks not inspiring much but it's not surprising, specially since they over engineered them after Panzer IV, But at least Abrams uses a 12cm(120mm) gun from the Leopard 2 but that's way long after WWII, I would think that the torc.bars were innovative but it probably was already in use.

 

This isn't quite the story of how the Abrams got its 120mm gun; NATO standard "anti-tank gun" (ie, tank gun) was the British 105mm L7, licensed the world over, particularly to the US who termed it the M68 gun.

Abrams of course originally shipped with a 105mm gun of this type. Eventually it was decided to upgun, and the Rheinmetall 120mm L/44 gun was chosen. For whatever reason, the Americans (and everyone else) decided adopting this weapon would be better than reviving the M58 and its derivatives; SA46 (France) and L1 (Britain) - even though, of course, all three countries still had these guns lying around from before the RO-L7 craze.

 

As I understand it, the Rheinmetall gun is just an upscaled, smoothbore RO-L7. Rheinmetall is working on a similar concept again, this time upscaling the 120mm to a 130mm gun, possibly in response to the T-14 Armata development.

Fun fact, the M58 remains the most powerful tank gun ever used in US service, including the modern L/44. Yet, the L/44 is better, hence why it went into service than the M58 coming back.

*shrug*


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iPotato Famine #11 Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:13 PM

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Medical technology. Nazi scientists developed the electron microscope. They also discovered asbestos to cause lung cancer just to name a few things.  Some was gained from the horrific human testing done on prisoners in concentration camps. But most was from legitimate medical science outside of the camps.

drewptwo #12 Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:29 PM

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Meth - Although it was already invented (by the Chinese or Japanese, I forget) Germany was the first to use it to keep troops alert.  They mainly used this for pilots and tankers.  The Allies tested it but limited it to ground troops in small numbers as there were some obvious issues.

 

Helicopter - To be more specific the Germans were working on what is called a synchropter.  This lead to further development and establishment of the modern helicopter design.

 

Paratroopers - While all sides used paratroopers during the war the Germans initial use during Blitzkrieg proved its effectiveness paving the way for others.



Niles Y93 #13 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:16 PM

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View Postdrewptwo, on 21 March 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

Meth - Although it was already invented (by the Chinese or Japanese, I forget) Germany was the first to use it to keep troops alert.  They mainly used this for pilots and tankers.  The Allies tested it but limited it to ground troops in small numbers as there were some obvious issues.

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IBROX 04 #14 Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:23 PM

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View Postdrewptwo, on 21 March 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Meth - Although it was already invented (by the Chinese or Japanese, I forget) Germany was the first to use it to keep troops alert.  They mainly used this for pilots and tankers.  The Allies tested it but limited it to ground troops in small numbers as there were some obvious issues.

 

 

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KanonFyodor #15 Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:55 PM

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View Postdrewptwo, on 21 March 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

Helicopter - To be more specific the Germans were working on what is called a synchropter.  This lead to further development and establishment of the modern helicopter design.

 

Paratroopers - While all sides used paratroopers during the war the Germans initial use during Blitzkrieg proved its effectiveness paving the way for others.

Ehh, I dunno about these two. The OP asked what ideas were taken from Germany after WW2 and paratroopers are not a German technology, as you stated yourself. Yes, the Germans used them in combat first but every other nation with paratroopers had already used them dozens if not hundreds of times in practice jumps and exercises. The helicopter was under development by other countries as well. Germany may have had the first operational helicopter but other nations had their own projects underway, the first Sikorsky helicopter flew in 1942 I think, maybe 1943, long before the end of the war and did not utilize any German technology. I don't feel that either of these could be described as "German" technology.



Panthergraf #16 Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:52 PM

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Paratroopers? The Para operations in Norway and the Netherlands and the bloodbath of Crete led the Germans to use Paras as regular infantry.

Big Yeash #17 Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:52 PM

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View PostPanthergraf, on 22 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Paratroopers? The Para operations in Norway and the Netherlands and the bloodbath of Crete led the Germans to use Paras as regular infantry.

 

Large-scale paratrooper forces were pioneered by the USSR in the 1930s.

According to Wikipedia, the British parachute forces were formed in response to German airborne operations, in early 1940.


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R2D2smokes #18 Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:03 AM

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The assault rifle is without a doubt the most prolific invention to come out of Germany during world war 2.  Everything about it influenced modern small arms development, including the type of ammunition developed for the assault rifle.  Every army in the world fields assault rifle's as their main battle rifle.

Big Yeash #19 Posted 02 April 2017 - 11:48 AM

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I think the notion that Germany "invented" the "assault rifle" is both a little overstated, and not technically accurate. The first weapon we could arguably call an "assault rifle" would be the Federov Avtomat, which I believe was developed either before or shortly after WWI.

 

It was chambered for the 6.5mm Arisaka cartridge, a cartridge smaller and less powerful than the 7.62x54mmR cartridge in service with the Russian Army - arguably, an "intermediate" cartridge, or as close as that era came to one.

In any case, the "assault rifle" is a fairly obvious evolution of the Sub-Machine Gun concept. Lightweight automatic fire that could be used by a single man.

The Germans developed the MP43 with the 7.92x33mm Kurz shortened cartridge, sure, but tbh I think the earlier FG42, an automatic paratrooper rifle, is a better candidate for "first German assault rifle", despite the use of the larger Mauser cartridge.

 

The Russian 7.62x39mm cartridge was developed during WWII. Work began in 1943, which sounds very early to be influenced by the MP43's Kurz cartridge, though I'm not really versed in this history. The RPD machine gun in this cartridge was developed in 1943, accepted into service in 1944, and though ready for mass production that year, not widely produced until 1945.

 

E: looking it up, the Kurz cartridge was apparently designed around 1940 and the MP43 was preceded by a prototype known as the "MKb 42", submitted for tests in December 1940. It was not until early 1942 that mass production of the Kurz cartridge went ahead, which makes the Soviets taking influence from it in 1943 very plausible.

 

E2: a much better claim to fame for the Germans is pioneering the GPMG concept as we know it today - a machine gun that can be used by a single soldier as his personal weapon, and also mounted on a tripod to produce a static field of heavy, sustained fire, operated from a belt feed. The MG34 and 42, of course. The MG42 and FG42 heavily influence the technical and even aesthetic design of the iconic M60 American machine gun.


Edited by Big Yeash, 02 April 2017 - 11:57 AM.

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Zyklon B was used to fumigate ships.




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