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Update to older tanks

Wg raibot max premium tanks

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Chr15py #21 Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:18 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

If you happen to still have that list, send it over my way and will take a look.

I think you may have overlooked that the Matilda IV has PMM.

That would make it OP. The armor profile on the Pz II J is very strong, we have to be very very careful with any changes to it as the slightest change could make it OP. To allow it to do more damage, its armor would need to be nerfed.

 

You have PM Max.

Much appreciated.


Chris


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ushuaia ice #22 Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:43 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

If you happen to still have that list, send it over my way and will take a look.

I think you may have overlooked that the Matilda IV has PMM.

That would make it OP. The armor profile on the Pz II J is very strong, we have to be very very careful with any changes to it as the slightest change could make it OP. To allow it to do more damage, its armor would need to be nerfed.

 

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RaNdOmKiLs666 #23 Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:06 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

That would make it OP. The armor profile on the Pz II J is very strong, we have to be very very careful with any changes to it as the slightest change could make it OP. To allow it to do more damage, its armor would need to be nerfed.

 

I agree that you have to be careful with any changes to this tank, but i think it needs a rework.

 

My suggestion is make it only able to see other tier 3 tanks, as it gets frustrating to see M3 lees, Matildas etc constantly with it's current MM. A armor nerf would be needed for balance. Here's my armor nerf suggestion... hull: 65mm/50mm/30mm (front, sides and rear) Turret: 65mm/50mm/30mm (front, sides and rear). Now it still has very good armor for tier 3, but at the same time it's not impossible to pen. The counter for this tank would be TDs, arty and perhaps a sneaky light tank that could flank it. Now as for the gun i'd simply just give it the 2 cm flak 38 off the pz. 38 (t), since it would make the tank actually able to pen some tanks at it's own tier, at the moment you'd be lucky to pen a tier 2.

 

A good tank to compare the Pz. II J with these new stats would be the AMX 38.

 

Opinions?


Edited by RaNdOmKiLs666, 22 April 2017 - 12:29 AM.


hexine #24 Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:52 PM

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View PostRaNdOmKiLs666, on 21 April 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

Buff the pen on the Pz. II J, it's far too weak, even the APCR bounce like 90% of the time.  Another thing is it sees tier 4 far too often, like 95% of the time. Yet another reason to buff the guns penetration.

 

or they could just fix the 2 j's matchmaking......notice it CANNOT face tier 2? it is always bottom tier

RaNdOmKiLs666 #25 Posted 23 April 2017 - 12:10 AM

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View Posthexine, on 23 April 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

 

or they could just fix the 2 j's matchmaking......notice it CANNOT face tier 2? it is always bottom tier

 

Yep. It kind of ruins the point of the tank. The armors not very effective against a large portion of the tier 4s, which kinda defeats the point of the tank, while at the same time your gun has less penetration then the tier 1 LTractor. It needs a rework that's for sure.



PLK180W #26 Posted 23 April 2017 - 12:42 AM

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It's a bit of a disappointment for anyone that receives the PZIII as their first Premium Tank. 


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Chr15py #27 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:28 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

If you happen to still have that list, send it over my way and will take a look.

I think you may have overlooked that the Matilda IV has PMM.

That would make it OP. The armor profile on the Pz II J is very strong, we have to be very very careful with any changes to it as the slightest change could make it OP. To allow it to do more damage, its armor would need to be nerfed.

 

any update on these subjects? It can't be denied that the hundreds of "buff this/nerf that" needs to be looked into. Sadly doesn't seem to be a subject WG are forthcoming on. 

 

Cheers

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MaxChaos24 #28 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:32 PM

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View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

 

any update on these subjects? It can't be denied that the hundreds of "buff this/nerf that" needs to be looked into. Sadly doesn't seem to be a subject WG are forthcoming on. 

 

Cheers

chris

 

The ones in the PM are doing fine or better than fine still. No stand outs that needs attention. 

Chr15py #29 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:37 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 15 May 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

 

The ones in the PM are doing fine or better than fine still. No stand outs that needs attention. 

 

Wow....ok. Are you being serious? Must be a joke surely?

 

Whoever you passed it to  is seriously in need of an eye test. 

 

Still, thanks for the feedback.

 

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Chr15py #30 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM

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So for everyone else, here's what I sent. I haven't included any other conversations as it's not my place to do so. Seems like we shall never have older premium tanks adjusted so they are still viable for use and able to fully complete. 

 

Awesome . I don't want them to become OP - just more balanced. From the ones I own:
 
super pershing - only thing that this needs is a little bit of ground resistance and engine tweaking as it's unbelievably slow to turn, grinds to a halt up any incline and throw soft / medium terrain into the mix...it's a heartache!  The pen is pretty good and I generally don't have too many problems. The PC did get a pen tweak but I'm not 100% why. 
 
Matilda BP - it's a sorry, sorry tank. Introduction of the Jap heavies and the Captured KV1 have made this pointless in every way. This sorely needs a movement buff in a big way! It's slow to get anywhere, slow to turn, very very slow up any incline, runs out of ammo easily as The pen and accuracy isn't very good. 
 
T34-88 - nothing needs doing about this tank. It's fun 
 
KV5 - great tank and awesome fun. I don't think anything needs doing really. 
 
T14 - again, the HE firing Jap heavies and high pen, low alpha tanks have damaged this tank a lot. Movement is great and doesn't need changing but the gun is very "bouncy" even with premium ammo. 
 
Mutant - ok
 
t34 - wish it was a "little" better on medium and softer terrain. Its the oldest premium tier 8 and has one of the (if not THE) lowest DPM. A lone T34 is a dead T34. A slight dpm buff would be good. Something to bring it inline with the premiums and heavies. I think its 1600dpm at the moment - between 1700 and 1800 would be good. 1800 probably a little too good... 
 
Sexton - great Arty but very overpowered. I love it. 
 
Knight - being honest, its a good tank. I'm  not very good with it to comment past that point. 
 
Boilermaker - poor poor tank. Gun is meant to be accurate but seems to be very inaccurate in my experience. Pen is great. Damage - not so much. Since the short 88 buff, this tank suffers now. Needs to be more adjusted to either TD play or medium. 
 
Centennial - everything is pretty good apart from the boil on the roof. You give it a pretty good turret then a massive weak spot so it can't really use the turret to its strengths. I could understand if it was limited to tier 9 maximum but it sees tier 10. The gun is awesome though but the premium round pen suffers in tier 10. With the lack of good turret, I hate tier 10 games. too easy a target.
 
Tog 2 - don't know what you could do with this beautiful tank sadly. Again, Jap heavies have damaged this tank beyond all use. Its fun in a platoon but is bad on its own. Just a HP piñata. 
 
at15a - I like it. Bit more 'punch' would be appreciated. 
 
Krafty P - I like it as is. I'm not very good with it but it's fun and accurate. 
 
Cap KV1 - all fine. 
 
Hammer - all fine
 
e25 - great tank. Wish it could use the handbrake though....
 
raseiniai - thanks for the free tank but it's very poor in comparison to the Blitzen. 
 
Blitzen - awesome
 
kaiju - I like it 

Chi nu Kai - I like this tank. Pretty accurate but seems to get penned by everything. So play it as a sniper...great but the gun then trolls as everything it meets has either better dpm or bigger guns. 

Scorpion - don't change anything on this tank. It is a supreme example of what a no armoured TD should be. Accurate (by US standards), fast, pretty damn stealthy. 
 
I hope this helps. I know it's a difficult task for them to do but you can see part of how much I've spent so I appreciate them looking into it. I don't know how much they might take into account but if you would let me know if Amy if it was useful, it would be appreciated. 

 
chris

 

then:

An example is the Mutant - has PMM and is more than able to compete and hold their own against tanks that would see two tiers higher (is3 for example - a very strong tier 8 heavy). I could not say the same about the Centennial (which sees tier 10) or Superpershing (although the latter is an awesome tank and see some tier 9)). 

 

I understand it is all about having a balance. But the issue is an E75 as a tier 9 is a formidable foe for even a tier 10 but meets the tier 8s with premium matchmaking that have been handicapped because of this fact. Also, a Motherland or fatherland tank that don't have PMM are naturally way more powerful and as a result have a distinct advantage over a super pershing for example. 

 

Unlike many others, I have tried to be objective and suggest sensible adjustments that bar a few, are only small amendments that would not overpower the newer tanks but make the older ones more "viable". I don't want them to be even a little over powered - just credible again. All of these tanks a year or two back were fantastic tanks in their tiers and could happily compete. 

 

Just seems a real shame

 

Chris


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HoodedWildKard #31 Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:06 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 15 May 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

 

The ones in the PM are doing fine or better than fine still. No stand outs that needs attention. 

 

​IDK how you can sit there and say the mathilda BP is "fine" :amazed: it is cripplingly slow, armour is sadly lacking, the rounds have terrible pen and a total of 55 rounds in a game is just the nail in the coffin. I used to play the MBP a lot but recently it just isn't worth using. It's too slow to relocate, can't brawl at all with the the addition of the OIs. I mean come on there are 3 highly played heavies that can practically one shot the MBP at tier 5-6. Plus I frequently ran out of rounds in mine, I pulled a devastator in it and lost the game because I was last tank standing and had no ammo. 

 

All I'm asking is it gets 15-30 rounds extra to fire. Slight buffs to the engine and armour would be nice if it can be stretched that far. 

A more extreme solution would be to leave it pretty much as it is and drop it to tier 4, perhaps dropping the hp and ROF a bit. I'm very fond of the MBP but as it stands at the moment it is a terrible tank, it kills me to see it neglected like this. 


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OakTreeDown215 #32 Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:29 AM

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View PostMuttz v2, on 20 April 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

buff the lowe. 

 

yes!

KilledByPing #33 Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:56 AM

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View PostMuttz v2, on 21 April 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

buff the lowe. 

 

Lowe need some love !

He recieved decent buffs in one of latest PC patches. They doesnt make him any kind of OP but atleast they make him playable. For now, Lowe is a complete unplayable garbage.


Edited by KilledByPing, 16 May 2017 - 08:56 AM.


Sovietdeath #34 Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:58 AM

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View PostHoodedWildKard, on 15 May 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

 

​IDK how you can sit there and say the mathilda BP is "fine" :amazed: it is cripplingly slow, armour is sadly lacking, the rounds have terrible pen and a total of 55 rounds in a game is just the nail in the coffin. I used to play the MBP a lot but recently it just isn't worth using. It's too slow to relocate, can't brawl at all with the the addition of the OIs. I mean come on there are 3 highly played heavies that can practically one shot the MBP at tier 5-6. Plus I frequently ran out of rounds in mine, I pulled a devastator in it and lost the game because I was last tank standing and had no ammo. 

 

All I'm asking is it gets 15-30 rounds extra to fire. Slight buffs to the engine and armour would be nice if it can be stretched that far. 

A more extreme solution would be to leave it pretty much as it is and drop it to tier 4, perhaps dropping the hp and ROF a bit. I'm very fond of the MBP but as it stands at the moment it is a terrible tank, it kills me to see it neglected like this. 

 

It may be crippling slow and runs outta ammo fast, but damn can that thing outpace other med. in a pinch. The only real downside is that its not always a fun tank to play, not that its underpowered.



HoodedWildKard #35 Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:48 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 16 May 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

 

It may be crippling slow and runs outta ammo fast, but damn can that thing outpace other med. in a pinch. The only real downside is that its not always a fun tank to play, not that its underpowered.

 

​It can if it can pen, then yes it cam dpm race, but a lot it not most of the tier 5 mediums can bounce it's shots off the front plate. They have bigger guns, better armour and are way faster, they will be flanking you more often than not . The only thing it has going for it is the ROF and a lot of tier 5s can almost match it, t34, captured kv, t1 heavy etc. And they have far better pen. It is weak at it's tier, thats is why its not always fun to play. Giving it a bit of a buff won't break tier, it'll just turn a weak tank into a workable one, which considering it cost money isn't too much to ask IMO.  

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ushuaia ice #36 Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

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I hope the Lowe receives the upgrades the PC got a while back.I have 466 games &( mastery badge) in this tank .But do not play it any more,Simply because its no longer enjoyable .I love the IS-6 it is a Great tank:great: and worth the Gold .The Lowe on the other hand:facepalm:

kpz1234 #37 Posted 16 May 2017 - 03:19 PM

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Just want to point out that if an undamaged TOG meets a fully upgraded O-I (derp version) in a one on one battle, the TOG's DPM will allow it to destroy the O-I before the O-I can get the second shot in.  I have been on both sides of this equation.  Yes, the TOG doesn't have match carrying capability unless it's top tier but it's the only tank I worry about in my O-I because of the rapid firing gun.

HoodedWildKard #38 Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:04 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 15 May 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

 

The ones in the PM are doing fine or better than fine still. No stand outs that needs attention. 

 

View PostHoodedWildKard, on 15 May 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

​IDK how you can sit there and say the mathilda BP is "fine" :amazed: it is cripplingly slow, armour is sadly lacking, the rounds have terrible pen and a total of 55 rounds in a game is just the nail in the coffin. I used to play the MBP a lot but recently it just isn't worth using. It's too slow to relocate, can't brawl at all with the the addition of the OIs. I mean come on there are 3 highly played heavies that can practically one shot the MBP at tier 5-6. Plus I frequently ran out of rounds in mine, I pulled a devastator in it and lost the game because I was last tank standing and had no ammo. 

 

All I'm asking is it gets 15-30 rounds extra to fire. Slight buffs to the engine and armour would be nice if it can be stretched that far. 

A more extreme solution would be to leave it pretty much as it is and drop it to tier 4, perhaps dropping the hp and ROF a bit. I'm very fond of the MBP but as it stands at the moment it is a terrible tank, it kills me to see it neglected like this. 

 

Could I get a reply pls?

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rrmike #39 Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:19 AM

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Max, any way to look at the silver earnings on these tanks? They only perform while spamming premium ammo.

korbendallas-01 #40 Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:13 PM

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View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

T34-88 - nothing needs doing about this tank. It's fun 
 
KV5 - great tank and awesome fun. I don't think anything needs doing really. 
 
Mutant - ok
 
Knight - being honest, its a good tank. I'm  not very good with it to comment past that point. 
 
Cap KV1 - all fine.

 

I sense a pattern here. All of these are clearly op, at least in some aspect. If they are fine, there is not much wrong in the game. In fact, the CKV is so overpowered that it's possibly the most boring tank I own. It's certainly the tank I regret buying most (shared with the FCM).

 

View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

t34 - wish it was a "little" better on medium and softer terrain. Its the oldest premium tier 8 and has one of the (if not THE) lowest DPM. A lone T34 is a dead T34. A slight dpm buff would be good. Something to bring it inline with the premiums and heavies. I think its 1600dpm at the moment - between 1700 and 1800 would be good. 1800 probably a little too good... 

 

Still a very powerful tank. Yes, better alpha would be nice (if only for hearing the CKV owners lament about the injustice), but it doesn't really need it. buff a bad tank, not one that is already good.

 

View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Boilermaker - poor poor tank. Gun is meant to be accurate but seems to be very inaccurate in my experience. Pen is great. Damage - not so much. Since the short 88 buff, this tank suffers now. Needs to be more adjusted to either TD play or medium.

 

The gun is fantastic, and "very inaccurate" is simply false. Good frontal armor, acceptable mobility, excellent tank.

 

View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Centennial - everything is pretty good apart from the boil on the roof. You give it a pretty good turret then a massive weak spot so it can't really use the turret to its strengths. I could understand if it was limited to tier 9 maximum but it sees tier 10. The gun is awesome though but the premium round pen suffers in tier 10. With the lack of good turret, I hate tier 10 games. too easy a target.

 

One of the hardest turrets in the game, and you want to buff it? Why not add the L7 while you are at it?

 

View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Hammer - all fine

 

Your greatest misjudgment yet. The tank is ugly as intercourse, only blind people would call it "fine".

 

View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

e25 - great tank. Wish it could use the handbrake though....

 

I hope with "great tank" you mean "overpowered and should be nerfed". I agree.

 

Occasionally fun, but so far I couldn't get the hang of it.

 

View PostChr15py, on 15 May 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Chi nu Kai - I like this tank. Pretty accurate but seems to get penned by everything. So play it as a sniper...great but the gun then trolls as everything it meets has either better dpm or bigger guns.

 

Agreed, great tank.







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