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The Grille 15 is an Underpowered Disappointment


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John Arrowsmith #161 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:25 AM

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View PostHobbit Rampage, on 21 April 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

Have to disagree.  From observation and being on the receiving end:

 

- Good speed

- Climbs like a goat

- Laser accuracy - I'm assuming

- Can hurt anything - badly

- Tough to kill

 

I'm not sure really what distinguishes it from an actual tank.

 

tough to kill? You can't be serious.

x Der Meister x, on 24 September 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

 

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f1mitku #162 Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:22 AM

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I still don't have Grille 15 (but I'll get it later today I think). But I think the OP is quite right in every way. +1

I didn't know that Grille 15 is that bad until reading this thread (at least - the first pages). But +50/-50 (100) degrees gun traverse is very bad. It definitely should have at least that "Option 3: Let it turn" as the other Waffles (-180/+180 = full 360 degrees) plus also "Option 6: Let it switch" to have a choice for the gun like the other Waffles and "Option 1: Let it hide" also like the other Waffles. It should be at least better than Waffle Pz. IV... not just in speed and alpha... and suffer in everything else. :hiding:



Hobbit Rampage #163 Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:01 AM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 21 April 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

 

tough to kill? You can't be serious.

 

This is just an impression. I'm usually rolling in mediums so take that for what its worth.  But recently I hit once twice with my IS-7 and someone else had to finish him.

xXlAmbitionzlXx #164 Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:22 AM

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View PostHobbit Rampage, on 21 April 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

 

This is just an impression. I'm usually rolling in mediums so take that for what its worth.  But recently I hit once twice with my IS-7 and someone else had to finish him.

 

Bum rush them, Grilles are easy XP, The limited turret traverse and track traverse is worth flanking them

scwirpeo #165 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:32 AM

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View PostxXlAmbitionzlXx, on 21 April 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

 

Bum rush them, Grilles are easy XP, The limited turret traverse and track traverse is worth flanking them

Not having the massive gun module like the wt means its eaven easier to HE spam aswell. Its like free damage.


You miss every shot you dont take, so shoot everything you nub.

Spoiler

 


xXlAmbitionzlXx #166 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

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View Postscwirpeo, on 21 April 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

Not having the massive gun module like the wt means its eaven easier to HE spam aswell. Its like free damage.

 

I am starting to see why people hate it now, My hate directed at the gun

giaka #167 Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:42 PM

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The OPs review is spot on in my opinion. 

Don't cap, get off the pole and hunt down the last losers......

 

 


TronSecurity #168 Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:57 PM

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View PostTL24, on 21 April 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

 

Lol is this guy seriously saying "GIT GUD"?

 

You have a WINR of 51%, survive 28% of the time and you've got a KD of 1.32

 

Wonder who needs to "GIT GUD" here?.....

 

To the OP, I agree with 90% of what you're saying. Still a fun TD to play though.

The fact that some random troll quoted this 2 days after it was said and done with just to keep a argument going is sad. Go do something more useful with your hands kid.

On that note I'm not the elitest trash you are. I don't play for stats and % I play for fun and fun alone. It's a lot of the hardcore players who think that their statistics are the most important aspect of the game is what is killing the MP. Those are the players who let their teams hang out to dry just so they can boost their stats. This game isn't about stats it's about normal everyday fun. 


Edited by TronSecurity, 21 April 2017 - 02:01 PM.


TheGr8Artiste #169 Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:12 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

Hello,

 

We noticed there is a lot of discussion about the Grille 15’s balance in regards to it having an average damage of 750 per shot (and not 850) and how it compares to the Waffentrager E 100. Here is a quick comparison between these two tanks based on the initial data received.

 

Tank

Survival Rate

Win Rate

Avg. Lifetime

Avg. Damage

Grille 15

49.27

51.13

5min 48.6s

2437.47

Waffentrager E-100

37.83

49.93

5min 21s

2335.14

 

While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time. As you can see, it’s doing quite well in the damage category. Introducing the Grille 15 with 850 avg. damage per shot would not have been a wise decision for Console.

There is no way you were able to type "While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time." with a straight face. You honestly believe that a flimsy, low health, wax paper armored tier ten TD doing tier eight TD damage is balanced because it has "amazing accuracy and aim time"?

 

The accuracy is nearly irrelevant due to the hidden dispersion stats that make or break a tank's accuracy, just check all the rage threads about Grille being unable to hit the broadside of a barn. Aim time is always good to have but on a tank destroyer it's not nearly as critical as a medium.

 

The accuracy and aim time in no way whatsoever make up for its other terrible stats, of course you don't agree with that because you look at overall statistics and base everything on that. How the hell can you look at that and take it serious? 

 

The WTE100 is averaging 2,335 damage per game. It carries 3,360 damage in the clip with great accuracy shell speed penetration etc but it's only capable of 2,335 DPG according to the overall statistics? How can you rationalize adjusting tanks based on overall statistics? Anyone with the least bit of skill can pull off 8,000 damage in it and you are okay with that? 

 

You are okay with people platooning several of them and annihilating 1/3 of the enemy team in ~10 seconds? All because according to the overall statistics it's only capable of 2,335 DPG.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

Whoever you guys put in charge of determining vehicle balance is a short sighted dim-witted buffoon. Go compare the vehicle stats of the M53/55 to the 212A and then come back and explain why they are somehow balanced even though the M53/55 is way better in every stat except having negligibly less armor. CLEARLY the M53/55 is the better tier 9 SPG by a huge margin and yet the overall statistics are telling you that they are equal and balanced. Open your eyes and balance them according to their abilities and not according to which potatoes play which vehicle more.


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Hobbit Rampage #170 Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:19 PM

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View PostxXlAmbitionzlXx, on 21 April 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

 

Bum rush them, Grilles are easy XP, The limited turret traverse and track traverse is worth flanking them

 

Yes. I don't find them particularly problematic to deal with. I'm just responding to the idea they need a buff.

TL24 #171 Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:29 PM

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View PostTronSecurity, on 21 April 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

The fact that some random troll quoted this 2 days after it was said and done with just to keep a argument going is sad. Go do something more useful with your hands kid.

On that note I'm not the elitest trash you are. I don't play for stats and % I play for fun and fun alone. It's a lot of the hardcore players who think that their statistics are the most important aspect of the game is what is killing the MP. Those are the players who let their teams hang out to dry just so they can boost their stats. This game isn't about stats it's about normal everyday fun. 

 

It's called "life", I'm not on here every single day telling people to "GIT GUD" when they themselves aren't even good at the game to begin with.

 

You think the rest of us don't play this game for fun? Of course we do, we play for fun but we also play to WIN and be the best that we can be. You have over 16k games yet it doesn't look like you've learned a damn thing about how to be better at this game so for you to say "GIT GUD" and trying to give other advice is just nonsense. Losing on a daily basis must be fun to you then.

 

Hardcore players are the ones who carry the team from scubs like you, you're the type of player that either dies early in the game only to moan and b!tch at others and why everyone sucks OR you're the type that sits back while your team does all the work. Then again based on your stats it looks like your the type that dies early in the game and just b!tches telling everyone to get on your level.

 

GG.


Edited by TL24, 21 April 2017 - 03:55 PM.


GENERAL G 69 #172 Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:31 PM

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Great post OP I think you did a great Job explaining the pros and cons of the tank I think I has potential but lacks critical stats that would make it a true tier x tank destroyer I agree with most of what you said

Snorelacks #173 Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:50 PM

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View PostTL24, on 21 April 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

 

It's called "life", I'm not on here every single day telling people to "GIT GUD" when they themselves aren't even good at the game to begin with.

 

You think the rest of us don't play this game for fun? Of course we do, we play for fun but we also play to WIN and be the best that we can be. You have over 16k games yet it doesn't look like you've learned a damn thing about how to be better at this game so for you to say "GIT GUD" and trying to give other advice is just nonsense.

 

Hardcore players are the ones who carry the team from scubs like you, you're the type of player that either dies early in the game and b!tches at why so and so didn't do this or how everyone on the team sucks OR you're the type that sits back while your team does all the work. Then again based on your stats it looks like your the type that dies early in the game and just b!tches a lot and tells others to get on your level.

 

GG.

 

SKOL VIKES!!!!!!!!!


 


TronSecurity #174 Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:48 PM

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View PostTL24, on 21 April 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

 

It's called "life", I'm not on here every single day telling people to "GIT GUD" when they themselves aren't even good at the game to begin with.

 

You think the rest of us don't play this game for fun? Of course we do, we play for fun but we also play to WIN and be the best that we can be. You have over 16k games yet it doesn't look like you've learned a damn thing about how to be better at this game so for you to say "GIT GUD" and trying to give other advice is just nonsense. Losing on a daily basis must be fun to you then.

 

Hardcore players are the ones who carry the team from scubs like you, you're the type of player that either dies early in the game only to moan and b!tch at others and why everyone sucks OR you're the type that sits back while your team does all the work. Then again based on your stats it looks like your the type that dies early in the game and just b!tches telling everyone to get on your level.

 

GG.

 

And the crybaby troll again tries to cause problems with a 2 day old post. Lol you kids are so funny. Again all your long winded post shows your a little crybaby trash player who only uses the stats and % to validate your pathetic attempt here. Your garbage and will always be garbage nothing is gonna change that. So take your sad attempt at being a forum warrior and stick it up your [edited]. And yes you need to Git Gud because it's a game and will only ever be a game. It was no bearing in real life or how a person lives their life. So what you need to do is shut the [edited]up and move on from other peoples conversations or rather ended conversations. Now I'm going to go and enjoy a video game. You can also now go back to sucking on that milk that comes from your mamas tit.

 

End of conversation even though I see you sitting here in the thread like a troll waiting for your half assed attempt at a comeback. 


Edited by TronSecurity, 21 April 2017 - 04:50 PM.


TL24 #175 Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:35 PM

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View PostTronSecurity, on 21 April 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

And the crybaby troll again tries to cause problems with a 2 day old post. Lol you kids are so funny. Again all your long winded post shows your a little crybaby trash player who only uses the stats and % to validate your pathetic attempt here. Your garbage and will always be garbage nothing is gonna change that. So take your sad attempt at being a forum warrior and stick it up your [edited]. And yes you need to Git Gud because it's a game and will only ever be a game. It was no bearing in real life or how a person lives their life. So what you need to do is shut the [edited]up and move on from other peoples conversations or rather ended conversations. Now I'm going to go and enjoy a video game. You can also now go back to sucking on that milk that comes from your mamas tit.

 

End of conversation even though I see you sitting here in the thread like a troll waiting for your half assed attempt at a comeback. 

 

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know I was supposed to close my tab on my browser after responding to a scrub like yourself. I can respond to any post at any time that I want to, didn't know there was a rule that someone couldn't quote someone from a few days ago. Oh wait, that's in your little world where everyone playing this game only plays for fun and can't do a damn thing to help the team get a W - go figure.

 

You da real MVP.



Pontiac Pat #176 Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:49 PM

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Max - If you're still reading this, I highly recommend WG develop a 'skill index' that will compare the average performance of vehicles against the average performance of the players that actually earned those numbers.  I think 'adjusting' the numbers based on such an index would give you a much sharper balancing picture.

 

Hypothetic example - 

Grille raw numbers in last 30 days - 51% Win Rate and 2400 Average Damage

Career average at tier 10 for the Grille players - 53% win rate and 2800 Average Damage

Career average at tier 10 of all players in all tanks - 50% win rate and 2200 average damage

Adjusted Grille expected numbers for an 'average' player group would be - 48% Win Rate and 1800 Average Damage (subtracting the variance from expected results by the players actually playing the tank)

This would tend to indicate that the tank was significantly under-performing.

 

Something to think about if you don't already have such an index in use.


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MaxChaos24 #177 Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:51 PM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 21 April 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Max - If you're still reading this, I highly recommend WG develop a 'skill index' that will compare the average performance of vehicles against the average performance of the players that actually earned those numbers.  I think 'adjusting' the numbers based on such an index would give you a much sharper balancing picture.

 

Hypothetic example - 

Grille raw numbers in last 30 days - 51% Win Rate and 2400 Average Damage

Career average at tier 10 for the Grille players - 53% win rate and 2800 Average Damage

Career average at tier 10 of all players in all tanks - 50% win rate and 2200 average damage

Adjusted Grille expected numbers for an 'average' player group would be - 48% Win Rate and 1800 Average Damage (subtracting the variance from expected results by the players actually playing the tank)

This would tend to indicate that the tank was significantly under-performing.

 

Something to think about if you don't already have such an index in use.

 

We already do that, balance data is filtered by player skill. :great:

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IAmJonReaper #178 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:01 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

 

We already do that, balance data is filtered by player skill. :great:

 

Well in that case all of the tanks I drive need an immediate and large buff!!!!! :trollface:

Lord Quijote #179 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:25 PM

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View PostTronSecurity, on 21 April 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

And the crybaby troll again tries to cause problems with a 2 day old post. Lol you kids are so funny. Again all your long winded post shows your a little crybaby trash player who only uses the stats and % to validate your pathetic attempt here. Your garbage and will always be garbage nothing is gonna change that. So take your sad attempt at being a forum warrior and stick it up your [edited]. And yes you need to Git Gud because it's a game and will only ever be a game. It was no bearing in real life or how a person lives their life. So what you need to do is shut the [edited]up and move on from other peoples conversations or rather ended conversations. Now I'm going to go and enjoy a video game. You can also now go back to sucking on that milk that comes from your mamas tit.

 

End of conversation even though I see you sitting here in the thread like a troll waiting for your half assed attempt at a comeback. 

 

You tell people to get good and then try to argue that stats don't matter. Can't have it both ways. 
come and get them

Lord Quijote #180 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:26 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

 

We already do that, balance data is filtered by player skill. :great:

 

I'm sure it is. What's your 'skill' metric? Global ranking? 


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