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Grille 15 - Initial Performance


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MaxChaos24 #1 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:01 PM

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Hello,

 

We noticed there is a lot of discussion about the Grille 15’s balance in regards to it having an average damage of 750 per shot (and not 850) and how it compares to the Waffentrager E 100. Here is a quick comparison between these two tanks based on the initial data received.

 

Tank

Survival Rate

Win Rate

Avg. Lifetime

Avg. Damage

Grille 15

49.27

51.13

5min 48.6s

2437.47

Waffentrager E-100

37.83

49.93

5min 21s

2335.14

 

While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time. As you can see, it’s doing quite well in the damage category. Introducing the Grille 15 with 850 avg. damage per shot would not have been a wise decision for Console.

 

Please be aware that when tanks are first released, tanks usually perform better so don’t draw too many conclusions yet. Initial data would say that it’s OP but over time as players learn how to play with/against a new vehicle, the stats will settle down and allow us to better judge it’s performance.  We wanted to share the initial data to help answer a lot of the discussions going on at the moment and will continue to monitor it’s performance. 



Cruiser Abukuma #2 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:08 PM

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Where's the comparison between it and all the other tier X TD's? 850 alpha gun on the grille wouldve been preferred since the other TD's havent been hit with the alpha nerf... we are getting post nerf tanks and yet we never even got the TD nerf for the original TD's

 

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Sammael85 #3 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:10 PM

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I'm surprised about how badly the Waffenträger performs in comparison, but i guess that's something vision range nerf related.

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De4thSt4lker206 #4 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:12 PM

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if it is balanced with 750 alpha why do the others have 850!?

 

the Grille has great accuracy and aim time, 

 

the T110E3 has great armor.

 

The OBj 268 has great camo and dpm

 

the T110E4 has a turret...

 

 

 

why is it that you people don't reduce the others to 750 if the grille is balanced with 750?   keeping the others at 850 "is not a wise decision for console".


Edited by De4thSt4lker206, 20 April 2017 - 06:12 PM.

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MaxChaos24 #5 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:15 PM

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View PostDe4thSt4lker206, on 20 April 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

if it is balanced with 750 alpha why do the others have 850!?

 

the Grille has great accuracy and aim time, 

 

the T110E3 has great armor.

 

The OBj 268 has great camo and dpm

 

the T110E4 has a turret...

 

 

 

why is it that you people don't reduce the others to 750 if the grille is balanced with 750?   keeping the others at 850 "is not a wise decision for console".

 

They aren't putting out that much damage even with 850. No reason to nerf them just because PC did. :honoring:

DecoNoir #6 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:18 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

 

They aren't putting out that much damage even with 850. No reason to nerf them just because PC did. :honoring:

 

Ever figure it has less to do with the machines themselves and more the people playing them?

 

And put the data out for the 850 alpha TDs. If you can do it for the Grille and WT you can do it for the rest.

 

The data supporting the WT Pz.4 needing 20-30 meters greater view range than both of it's Tier Xs would also be great.


Edited by DecoNoir, 20 April 2017 - 07:22 PM.

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Sammael85 #7 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:25 PM

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At the end is just a comparison about nerfed tanks. As the point seems to be "it was SO necesary to nerf them", i don't expect results nor comparisons with the un-nerfed ones (and, even if it happens, i'll doubt highly about the veracity of the results).

It's like the arty issue, they had the potential of one shot kill any tank on it's own tier but "as it's don't usually happen, we won't bat an eye about that issue". Funny considering how the number of times that an AAP has achieved Bombardier, one shot killed someone or get a kill at close range has increased exponentially these days on every game i have taken part.

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De4thSt4lker206 #8 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:27 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

 

They aren't putting out that much damage even with 850. No reason to nerf them just because PC did. :honoring:

 

no reason to nerf them because it makes sense, noooo...

 

 

here is a reason to nerf them, a tank with 750 alpha could rarely ever one-hit a tank with 900 health (yes i shouldn't have done what i did, but there is no justifiable reason for him to be able to one-hit a tank that is in his MM range (this applies to ALL tanks not just these TDs))

 

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/De4thSt4lker206/video/18874847

 

 

Problems with 850 alpha damage on TDs

  • They can kill more or less anything in 3 or less shots, meaning they don't have to be exposed to enemy fire nearly as much as tanks with lesser damage.
  • They have massive amounts of penetration meaning that they rarely ever bounce shots.
  • They almost always have another strong suit as well as monster alpha damage, the T110E4 and E3 make heavy tanks irrelevant as they have equal or better armor and guns that put heavies to shame.  (T110E4 turret, Obj 268 massive camo and mobility, T110E3 broken levels of frontal armor...)

 

 

the most balanced and least hated tier 10 td in the game is the Obj. 263, which has 550 alpha damage. it doesn't end anybody's game with one hit, it doesn't leave its opposition a crippled mess in one shot, but it is still competitive.


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Gigantic Owl #9 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:32 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

They aren't putting out that much damage even with 850. No reason to nerf them just because PC did. :honoring:

 

Or its because all the baddies play your rediculously OP TDs that everybody thinks are a joke and ruin gameplay.

 

I remember when WG wouldn't let us ban the waffle from competitive play because it would show the community its OP. Like blatantly admitting its a problem but still want to cover it up.


 

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De4thSt4lker206 #10 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:37 PM

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alright, you did it, i'm gonna do a new write up on how to balance TDs...

 

my old one for your consideration

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/158793-forum-proposals-tier-10-td-re-balance/page__fromsearch__1 

 

 

(and a quote from your PC staff)

 

View PostDe4thSt4lker206, on 19 January 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

"DAMAGE SCALING : REVISED ALPHA DAMAGE

“Currently, vehicles with very high alpha damage (the JagdPz. E 100, FV 4005, or FV 215b (183)) foster artillery-like gameplay and outperform other vehicles in their tier, thanks to downright devastating alpha damage. It won’t make your winrate increase, even if you’re shooting Gold rounds, but it’s enough to obliterate the target and hurl an unsuspecting player back to their Garage. However, long reload times also leave these tanks defenseless for an uncomfortably long time if you miss."

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/01/19/sandbox-return/#more-28906

 

 

Pain, you say they are balanced, and maybe they are. you simply aren't thinking about it in a gameplay aspect.

 

TDs hit for near or more than half the health of a tank on a per shot basis, they don't kill faster but they do cripple someone's ability to play with one hit, which is not a fun experience. they also take an exceptionally long time to reload, making it rather un-fun for a TD if they should happen to miss.

 


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USSWISCONSIN94 #11 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:46 PM

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avg lifetime per battle? huh. That's a first. never seen that stat. can you show the E4's pls?

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DecoNoir #12 Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:48 PM

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View PostUSSWISCONSIN94, on 20 April 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

avg lifetime per battle? huh. That's a first. never seen that stat. can you show the E4's pls?

 

I imagine the base camping E-100s top that list :P

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simo_p_ #13 Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:21 PM

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The initial data is certainly intresting, but as you said doesn't tell the whole story.

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ATHFjman18 #14 Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:27 PM

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Hmmm well, now what are people going to complain about?? :trollface:

 

 Something's going to overtake the Grille 15 complaints....maybe we can go back to the classics like: MM is awful or perhaps premium ammo is being spammed...I'm sure there's a plenty more out there slipping my mind...:deer:



Warthog II #15 Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:07 PM

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What's the Waffle 12.8 vs 15 stats?

WrathofAchilles #16 Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:20 PM

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View PostWarthog II, on 20 April 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

What's the Waffle 12.8 vs 15 stats?

 

Now that would be interesting to know.

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Rarefication #17 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:09 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Hello,

 

We noticed there is a lot of discussion about the Grille 15’s balance in regards to it having an average damage of 750 per shot (and not 850) and how it compares to the Waffentrager E 100. Here is a quick comparison between these two tanks based on the initial data received.

 

Tank

Survival Rate

Win Rate

Avg. Lifetime

Avg. Damage

Grille 15

49.27

51.13

5min 48.6s

2437.47

Waffentrager E-100

37.83

49.93

5min 21s

2335.14

 

While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time. As you can see, it’s doing quite well in the damage category. Introducing the Grille 15 with 850 avg. damage per shot would not have been a wise decision for Console.

 

Please be aware that when tanks are first released, tanks usually perform better so don’t draw too many conclusions yet. Initial data would say that it’s OP but over time as players learn how to play with/against a new vehicle, the stats will settle down and allow us to better judge it’s performance.  We wanted to share the initial data to help answer a lot of the discussions going on at the moment and will continue to monitor it’s performance. 

 

The WT E100 stats you listed: are those the stats for that tank gathered the first week it it was released? 

John Arrowsmith #18 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:12 PM

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Max, please provide details of how the Foch 155 is performing compared to the Grill. 

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Rarefication #19 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:18 PM

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Max, I am impressed you dug deep to locate the initial stats for the WT E100--seeing how many years it has been since it's inception. 

MaxChaos24 #20 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:19 PM

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View PostRarefication, on 20 April 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

 

The WT E100 stats you listed: are those the stats for that tank gathered the first week it it was released? 

 

That's current WT E-100 stats after the latest balance update.




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