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Grille 15 - Initial Performance


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MaxChaos24 #21 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:22 PM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 20 April 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

Max, please provide details of how the Foch 155 is performing compared to the Grill. 

 

Could only release what I did. I know there has been a few request for an update on the Foch 155 after it's balance was change. I'll see if it's something we can post another time. :honoring:

John Arrowsmith #22 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

 

Could only release what I did. I know there has been a few request for an update on the Foch 155 after it's balance was change. I'll see if it's something we can post another time. :honoring:

So you are aware it sucks then.:coin:


nocapkillall, on 21 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

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MaxChaos24 #23 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:26 PM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 20 April 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

So you are aware it sucks then.:coin:

 

Nah, not doing bad at anything. ;)

John Arrowsmith #24 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:30 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

 

Nah, its doing bad at everything. ;)

 

Ftfy:P


Edited by John Arrowsmith, 20 April 2017 - 09:30 PM.

nocapkillall, on 21 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

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Warthog II #25 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:32 PM

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How many players using the Waffle have camo nets to give a 25% bonus to a 2 (two) camo rating and are using up crew perk/skill slots prioritizing camo perks that add a % bonus to that 2 camo rating?

DecoNoir #26 Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:51 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

 

Nah, not doing bad at anything. ;)

 

Probably because it's doing a whole lot of nothing.

 


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xXlAmbitionzlXx #27 Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:17 PM

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why are stats of this tank being compared soo early on? 

DecoNoir #28 Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:52 PM

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View PostxXlAmbitionzlXx, on 20 April 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

why are stats of this tank being compared soo early on? 

 

Because people have been (rightly) saying its gimped against other Tier X TDs, so they figured comparing it to the one TD people weren't talking about while admitting the stats would be skewed would shut people up.

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Dreaswolf #29 Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:50 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Hello,

 

We noticed there is a lot of discussion about the Grille 15’s balance in regards to it having an average damage of 750 per shot (and not 850) and how it compares to the Waffentrager E 100. Here is a quick comparison between these two tanks based on the initial data received.

 

Tank

Survival Rate

Win Rate

Avg. Lifetime

Avg. Damage

Grille 15

49.27

51.13

5min 48.6s

2437.47

Waffentrager E-100

37.83

49.93

5min 21s

2335.14

 

While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time. As you can see, it’s doing quite well in the damage category. Introducing the Grille 15 with 850 avg. damage per shot would not have been a wise decision for Console.

 

Please be aware that when tanks are first released, tanks usually perform better so don’t draw too many conclusions yet. Initial data would say that it’s OP but over time as players learn how to play with/against a new vehicle, the stats will settle down and allow us to better judge it’s performance.  We wanted to share the initial data to help answer a lot of the discussions going on at the moment and will continue to monitor it’s performance. 

 

Don't worry about the other guys who are sad about the 850 alpha tds max, I play almost all my games at tier 9-10 and I barely notice them.

De4thSt4lker206 #30 Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:16 AM

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View PostDreaswolf, on 20 April 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

 

Don't worry about the other guys who are sad about the 850 alpha tds max, I play almost all my games at tier 9-10 and I barely notice them.

 

and with only 20% of all your games in tier 9 and 10 tds too! /s

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scwirpeo #31 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:09 AM

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View PostW 4 L K U R E, on 20 April 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Why does it matter who says the Grille is trash. I pointed this out on day one of its implementation and was called (for the most part by people I respect) a fool. Yet when Quixote posts an elongated version of the same ideas, he gets 24+ upvotes. Nothing against the man I just find it weird.

 


We have been shown before that our WT performs poorly against most of our TDs because of its large size and long reload. How does the grille 15 stack up to the e4/e3, the real powerhouses on console.

Dreaswolf #32 Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:49 PM

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View PostDe4thSt4lker206, on 21 April 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

 

and with only 20% of all your games in tier 9 and 10 tds too! /s

 

You got me

Edited by Dreaswolf, 21 April 2017 - 12:50 PM.


BladesForBelial #33 Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:41 PM

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The Grille on track op hasn't shown me that the Grille is OP, but it has shown the downside of on-track ops for TD's. The past week has created multiple match-ups of 5-6 WT auf pz IV's a side which reduces many games to camo net/binoc campy firing squad drag out matches. 

 

When the OP goes away and the tank diversity comes back, I expect the Grille's performance to dip below many Tier x td's, besides the Foch 155 of course. 



TheGr8Artiste #34 Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:04 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

Hello,

 

We noticed there is a lot of discussion about the Grille 15’s balance in regards to it having an average damage of 750 per shot (and not 850) and how it compares to the Waffentrager E 100. Here is a quick comparison between these two tanks based on the initial data received.

 

Tank

Survival Rate

Win Rate

Avg. Lifetime

Avg. Damage

Grille 15

49.27

51.13

5min 48.6s

2437.47

Waffentrager E-100

37.83

49.93

5min 21s

2335.14

 

While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time. As you can see, it’s doing quite well in the damage category. Introducing the Grille 15 with 850 avg. damage per shot would not have been a wise decision for Console.

There is no way you were able to type "While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time." with a straight face. You honestly believe that a flimsy, low health, wax paper armored tier ten TD doing tier eight TD damage is balanced because it has "amazing accuracy and aim time"?

 

The accuracy is nearly irrelevant due to the hidden dispersion stats that make or break a tank's accuracy, just check all the rage threads about Grille being unable to hit the broadside of a barn. Aim time is always good to have but on a tank destroyer it's not nearly as critical as a medium.

 

The accuracy and aim time in no way whatsoever make up for its other terrible stats, of course you don't agree with that because you look at overall statistics and base everything on that. How the hell can you look at that and take it serious? 

 

The WTE100 is averaging 2,335 damage per game. It carries 3,360 damage in the clip with great accuracy shell speed penetration etc but it's only capable of 2,335 DPG according to the overall statistics? How can you rationalize adjusting tanks based on overall statistics? Anyone with the least bit of skill can pull off 8,000 damage in it and you are okay with that? 

 

You are okay with people platooning several of them and annihilating 1/3 of the enemy team in ~10 seconds? All because according to the overall statistics it's only capable of 2,335 DPG.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

Whoever you guys put in charge of determining vehicle balance is a short sighted dim-witted buffoon. Go compare the vehicle stats of the M53/55 to the 212A and then come back and explain why they are somehow balanced even though the M53/55 is way better in every stat except having negligibly less armor. CLEARLY the M53/55 is the better tier 9 SPG by a huge margin and yet the overall statistics are telling you that they are equal and balanced. Open your eyes and balance them according to their abilities and not according to which potatoes play which vehicle more.


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Bashful #35 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:18 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 20 April 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Hello,

 

We noticed there is a lot of discussion about the Grille 15’s balance in regards to it having an average damage of 750 per shot (and not 850) and how it compares to the Waffentrager E 100. Here is a quick comparison between these two tanks based on the initial data received.

 

Tank

Survival Rate

Win Rate

Avg. Lifetime

Avg. Damage

Grille 15

49.27

51.13

5min 48.6s

2437.47

Waffentrager E-100

37.83

49.93

5min 21s

2335.14

 

While the 155mm guns do have 850 avg. damage per shot (except the Foch), it’s not needed on the Grille 15 due to it’s amazing accuracy and aim time. As you can see, it’s doing quite well in the damage category. Introducing the Grille 15 with 850 avg. damage per shot would not have been a wise decision for Console.

 

Please be aware that when tanks are first released, tanks usually perform better so don’t draw too many conclusions yet. Initial data would say that it’s OP but over time as players learn how to play with/against a new vehicle, the stats will settle down and allow us to better judge it’s performance.  We wanted to share the initial data to help answer a lot of the discussions going on at the moment and will continue to monitor it’s performance. 

 

While the comparison with the WT E-100 is interesting, the play style for the tank is different enough that's it doesn't make too much sense to have a side-by-side comparison. It probably makes much more sense to compare the Grille 15 with the Waffenträger auf Pz. IV.

 

So can you share the stats for the Waffenträger auf Pz. IV --- and if possible, break out the stats for the the top 12.8 cm and 15 cm top guns?



MaxChaos24 #36 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:28 PM

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View PostBashful, on 21 April 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

While the comparison with the WT E-100 is interesting, the play style for the tank is different enough that's it doesn't make too much sense to have a side-by-side comparison. It probably makes much more sense to compare the Grille 15 with the Waffenträger auf Pz. IV.

 

So can you share the stats for the Waffenträger auf Pz. IV --- and if possible, break out the stats for the the top 12.8 cm and 15 cm top guns?

 

Not at the moment, was only able to release what was posted.

 

The comparison with the WT E-100 is due to being that was the discussions were mainly about. Some also consider the WT E-100 to be OP but are asking for the Grille 15 to be buffed. As you can see, it's doing better than the WT E-100 so the buff requests are a bit...strange. We wanted to share the initial data based on the discussions so players had some more factual data to look at. 



Cruiser Abukuma #37 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:39 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

 

Not at the moment, was only able to release what was posted.

 

The comparison with the WT E-100 is due to being that was the discussions were mainly about. Some also consider the WT E-100 to be OP but are asking for the Grille 15 to be buffed. As you can see, it's doing better than the WT E-100 so the buff requests are a bit...strange. We wanted to share the initial data based on the discussions so players had some more factual data to look at. 

 

your factual data isnt showing the amount of players the waffle clips out per clip..... nor will it show the amount of players who get one shotted by arty... so you either dont play the game to see this or you do but are purposely ignoring it

 

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Bashful #38 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:50 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

Not at the moment, was only able to release what was posted.

 

The comparison with the WT E-100 is due to being that was the discussions were mainly about. Some also consider the WT E-100 to be OP but are asking for the Grille 15 to be buffed. As you can see, it's doing better than the WT E-100 so the buff requests are a bit...strange. We wanted to share the initial data based on the discussions so players had some more factual data to look at. 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Personally, I think the Grille 15 needs to be buffed --- however, not the Alpha like most people ask, but rather the Camouflage and View Ranges. The fact that the Pz IV has 20m better View Range and roughly twice the Camouflage rating means that the Grille 15 isn't really the epitome of the "sneaky sniper TD" line.

 

I'm not in a position where I can check IG for sure, so I'm stuck looking at wotinfo --- but the fact that Grille 15 still has one of the worst camouflage ratings of all T10 TDs is annoying. This situation might be okay over in the PC given that they have more bushes to hide behind, but since the Console experience is different, you should definitely take a second look at that both the View and Camouflage ratings for this tank.



xXlAmbitionzlXx #39 Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:51 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

 

Not at the moment, was only able to release what was posted.

 

The comparison with the WT E-100 is due to being that was the discussions were mainly about. Some also consider the WT E-100 to be OP but are asking for the Grille 15 to be buffed. As you can see, it's doing better than the WT E-100 so the buff requests are a bit...strange. We wanted to share the initial data based on the discussions so players had some more factual data to look at. 

 

Have you played the grille 15 yourself on the live server? If only a few games, I highly recommend at some point you get 100 games in it. 

DecoNoir #40 Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:01 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

Not at the moment, was only able to release what was posted.

 

The comparison with the WT E-100 is due to being that was the discussions were mainly about. Some also consider the WT E-100 to be OP but are asking for the Grille 15 to be buffed. As you can see, it's doing better than the WT E-100 so the buff requests are a bit...strange. We wanted to share the initial data based on the discussions so players had some more factual data to look at. 

 

Who asked for it to be compared to the Waffle? The issue it being thrown in with guns of the same caliber (or close to) doing greater damage. The Grille was balanced for an entirely different meta but you guys just tossed it in without a care, despite one of your Lead Designers saying otherwise. This isn't the first time you guys have done this either.

 

 


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