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Grille 15 - Initial Performance


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tediniki #61 Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:46 AM

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View PostGigantic Owl, on 20 April 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

 

Or its because all the baddies play your rediculously OP TDs that everybody thinks are a joke and ruin gameplay.

 

I remember when WG wouldn't let us ban the waffle from competitive play because it would show the community its OP. Like blatantly admitting its a problem but still want to cover it up.

 

So simple, so true, so final, why is this discussion even going on after this post? There is literally nothing more to say here!

What does data even mean if it is blatantly clear that the hordes of potatoes rushing their way to the tier 10 TDs are skewing the data and masking the problem. Why do you need to shove data down our throats when it's much more telling to watch one replay by a good player to know these things are messed up?

Watch Swindle 321 proving the Grille 15 is the best tier 10 MEDIUM!!!

Tons of videos proving E3/E4 are the best HEAVY tanks in the game!

And let's not even mention how ridiculously OP the WT Pz IV and Borsig are in the hands of good players. These two are legitimate tier 10 TDs in their own right. What business they have at tier 9 and 8!!!! is beyond me.


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mhogee #62 Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:44 PM

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View PostxXlAmbitionzlXx, on 22 April 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

 

Make sure you literally fully aim the shots, otherwise the gun has a mind of its own and it [edited]misses. 

 

​is that why I havent been killed by one yet ? LOL i thought my baby waffle would get picked apart but 2 weeks in the grilles arent making me notice anything to OP

xXlAmbitionzlXx #63 Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View Postmhogee, on 23 April 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

 

​is that why I havent been killed by one yet ? LOL i thought my baby waffle would get picked apart but 2 weeks in the grilles arent making me notice anything to OP

 

Its nowhere near OP, It has a few flaws that are quite troublesome. Its basically like playing a waffle but goes 60km/h in a straight line. With that said, Horrendous camo rating and no armor for a start. It has a semi traverse able turret, Its not 90 degrees in each direction either lol The gun, While the shell velocity is amazing and gun accuracy is good, The dispersion values are so poor that even with a 1.5 sec aiming time, It takes maybe 2-3 seconds to fully aim a shot? The traverse speed of the tank itself is poor and the view range is meh, Helps a lot when you have both coated optics and binocs equipped though. The AP pen is roughly about the same as the 12.8cm's gun you get on the waffle 4 - 279 and the HEAT rounds are fairly garbage IMO - 334 pen. It has reasonable gun depression over the front and sides also. 

What I've been finding out since playing it more and more, The play style for it is unlike any tank I've played. Some maps *Like swindle points out,* It does well playing it like a medium but on others you need to play it rather passive unless you have support. Its giving me a challenge, I mean I wasn't pleased with this tank at first, However by changing my loadout and equipment, the way I play with it and learning to cope with the randoms at tier X amongst all of this, Its starting to shine for me. Its not a perfect tank by any means and its definitely not a favourite but its good to be learning something different. 

sgtK80 #64 Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:04 AM

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Finaly understood why I have vast majority of tier X games with 30-50% or more tanks being TDs. It`s because console player base is full of competent and ambitious players and WGCB are masters of balance.

BTW if Waffle is so underperforming, why don`t you give it a 7th shell?


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xXlAmbitionzlXx #65 Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:19 AM

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View PostsgtK80, on 24 April 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

Finaly understood why I have vast majority of tier X games with 30-50% or more tanks being TDs. It`s because console player base is full of competent and ambitious players and WGCB are masters of balance.

BTW if Waffle is so underperforming, why don`t you give it a 7th shell?

 

*Buff the E5*

sgtK80 #66 Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:39 AM

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View PostxXlAmbitionzlXx, on 24 April 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

 

*Buff the E5*

True, true :D Now wait till the Mouse will get some love. That's going to be hilarious :trollface:


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xXlAmbitionzlXx #67 Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:46 AM

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View PostsgtK80, on 24 April 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

True, true :D Now wait till the Mouse will get some love. That's going to be hilarious :trollface:

 

They should add japanese artillery to the game :trollface:

sgtK80 #68 Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

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View PostxXlAmbitionzlXx, on 24 April 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

They should add japanese artillery to the game :trollface:

 

Yeah, still some crazy sh*t ahead. Fortunately I no longer give a sh*t so I say: let them come! :trollface:
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TheGr8Artiste #69 Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:26 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 22 April 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

 

Be sure to know that it is stated in the first post that it is only initial data and likely to be higher than what it will be once it's stabilizes. We understand that initial data is just initial. It's only to show that the 850 would have been way to much. 

How do you not see the contradiction here? You acknowledge that the data is not at all accurate yet but then you state that 850 would be way too much based on said inaccurate data.

 

Do you think unicums or potatoes unlock new tier tens first? :facepalm:

 


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moonwhistle #70 Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:44 PM

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View PostSammael85, on 20 April 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

I'm surprised about how badly the Waffenträger performs in comparison, but i guess that's something vision range nerf related.

 

It's got nothing to do with the view range and everything to do with the total inflexibility and most them getting wrecked before they've fired a single clip.

sgtK80 #71 Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:22 PM

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View Postmoonwhistle, on 24 April 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

 

It's got nothing to do with the view range and everything to do with the total inflexibility and most them getting wrecked before they've fired a single clip.

No, it's about all those morons driving them, shooting he, using nothing but autoaim, using it like a clip thrower. It has always been about those precious WGCB customers. 


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Sammael85 #72 Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:41 PM

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View Postmoonwhistle, on 24 April 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

 

It's got nothing to do with the view range and everything to do with the total inflexibility and most them getting wrecked before they've fired a single clip.

 

View PostsgtK80, on 24 April 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

No, it's about all those morons driving them, shooting he, using nothing but autoaim, using it like a clip thrower. It has always been about those precious WGCB customers. 

 

Well, those "precious and valuable customers" drive every tank and is an efficient prove about what tank is really OP and what it really doesn't if you ask me.

Perhaps i should have taken my own Waffen to add some counter-measure as long as the RNG is on my side. Instead i've being doing some low tier shopping (tiers V and VI) to complete my definitive garage, trying to get so many tripulations at 100% is a time waster even with sparse days of Premium (What about a no-gold 100% training WG C-B? Running with a non trained tripulation is a complete punishment for those who have ever topped a tank once and want to re-add it permanently on its garage)

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xXlAmbitionzlXx #73 Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:40 PM

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View PostSammael85, on 24 April 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

 

 

Well, those "precious and valuable customers" drive every tank and is an efficient prove about what tank is really OP and what it really doesn't if you ask me.

Perhaps i should have taken my own Waffen to add some counter-measure as long as the RNG is on my side. Instead i've being doing some low tier shopping (tiers V and VI) to complete my definitive garage, trying to get so many tripulations at 100% is a time waster even with sparse days of Premium (What about a no-gold 100% training WG C-B? Running with a non trained tripulation is a complete punishment for those who have ever topped a tank once and want to re-add it permanently on its garage)

 

Grille 15 is nowhere near being overpowered. Its got a good gun and mobility but everything else about the tank is enough to get you killed if you have no clue what your doing.. You cant just sit at the back of the map the entire game and expect everyshot to pen (Like I did) and you cant brawl with it because its got no armor, Horrendous traverse and bad camo rating.. And to top it all off the view range pretty meh. It will be OP for me considering im nearing 3rd mark but thats only because of change of playstyle and gameplay overall to find a way to make this tank work like a treat. The other TDs will merc the grille, IMO. Due to experience of 183, 268 E4 and waffle. The only thing inflated for the grille currently is, Alot of unis and teals playing the grille 15 and not many potatoes. <Hate these terms btw and because its first 2 weeks of having stats put out already. 

FBPrime #74 Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:17 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

 

Not sure why you keep saying this? Grille 15 is #1 in damage for all TDs. The 750 damage is balanced for our meta, at 850, it'd be ridiculously OP.

 

Yes only the T110E3, T110E4, and Object 268 need to be ridiculously OP.  Keeping their 850 alpha with the rof buffs; which were implemented to compensate for the drop of alpha to 750, gives those three vehicles just over 13% more DPM.  This makes these three especially overpowering when in the hands of a good player.  There are plenty of players who play at a very low skill level who drag the win rates of these vehicles down.  Some tier tens like the Grille 15, 113, Object 263, AMX 50B, are very uncommon and are hardly played when compared to the more popular tier tens.  These vehicles are also not as easy to play as others like the E3, E4, and 268.  A result of this is a much higher volume of skilled players inflating these stats.  

You can lead a horse to water, but in this game, you have to carry the horse to win.

 


sidious3883 #75 Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:36 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 21 April 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

 

Not at the moment, was only able to release what was posted.

 

The comparison with the WT E-100 is due to being that was the discussions were mainly about. Some also consider the WT E-100 to be OP but are asking for the Grille 15 to be buffed. As you can see, it's doing better than the WT E-100 so the buff requests are a bit...strange. We wanted to share the initial data based on the discussions so players had some more factual data to look at. 

Again max your getting confused. The Waffle is  not op it's BROKEN. 

 

Initial stats say 9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape. But that doesn't justify it being allowed or right in real life. Extreme example i know.

 

Stats should be used as a Base line they should not be the best all end all of how things should be. Fact is you can skew stats to how ever you want them to look. End of the day they are just numbers but have no real bearing on what's actually going on. Granted they look balanced on paper, actual reality they ruin game play. T10 Tds need a serious review in how they actually play in game not on a numbers page. 

 

 

 



KaiserVonKrieg #76 Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:05 PM

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Guru Bheeshma #77 Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:07 AM

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@Max - Can you share the ratio of number of players who played Grill 15 vs Waffle for the stats?


 


WeeSalty Mug #78 Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:48 PM

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View PostDe4thSt4lker206, on 20 April 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

 

no reason to nerf them because it makes sense, noooo...

 

 

here is a reason to nerf them, a tank with 750 alpha could rarely ever one-hit a tank with 900 health (yes i shouldn't have done what i did, but there is no justifiable reason for him to be able to one-hit a tank that is in his MM range (this applies to ALL tanks not just these TDs))

 

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/De4thSt4lker206/video/18874847

 

 

Problems with 850 alpha damage on TDs

  • They can kill more or less anything in 3 or less shots, meaning they don't have to be exposed to enemy fire nearly as much as tanks with lesser damage.
  • They have massive amounts of penetration meaning that they rarely ever bounce shots.
  • They almost always have another strong suit as well as monster alpha damage, the T110E4 and E3 make heavy tanks irrelevant as they have equal or better armor and guns that put heavies to shame.  (T110E4 turret, Obj 268 massive camo and mobility, T110E3 broken levels of frontal armor...)

 

 

the most balanced and least hated tier 10 td in the game is the Obj. 263, which has 550 alpha damage. it doesn't end anybody's game with one hit, it doesn't leave its opposition a crippled mess in one shot, but it is still competitive.

 

3 shots or less: Assuming someone sits right in front of them for a minimum of 52 seconds.  And in those 52 seconds they don't try to circumvent them to the side.  If someone dies to a TD in 3 consecutive shots they have don't something tremendously wrong, barring a Waffle.  (Or maybe a Foch 155 (But this tank has 5 seconds in between shots))

 

TDs bounce shots all the time, but not on light tanks who yolo them.  Start looking at t10 TD statistics of your team mates.  (Unless it's an LTTB lol)

 

the E4 is easily penned in the lower plate and sides.

 

I feel like your argument is congruent with the video you put up.  It feels like "I'm pissed because I can't face hug a jag panzer or E3 in my light tank."  TD's have a certain play style.  Don't play to their style, stay away from the front of them.  You can own E4's in light tanks, you just didn't do it that round.  Yes, I think balance is a bit of an issue but not for the reasons you listed.

 

 






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