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BM9875 #1 Posted 20 May 2017 - 04:06 AM

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Agree, don't agree that is a personal choice.  One thing I do agree with is freedom of speech and the right to criticize and make feelings and objections known.  In my view what Wargamming did to him in threatening him with a copyright strike was one of the most unprofessional thing I have seen a company do.  There is a principle here, and in my view this New Russian Mafia threats and attacks is shameful at best, criminal at worst.  

 

 

Edit:  (Pulling a later comment to the main topic since it expands the idea)

Posted this to Carrie's video, but sort of sums things and brings people who don't follow Foch up to date.  The issue with premium tanks was not only related to the new Chrysler K. Foch has had issue with the Maus and Type 5 buffs, as well as the Patriot/T26E5, that even Clause Killerman called pay2win, the AMX M4 mle 49/Liberte, the VK 100.01, and the Object 252u that is just wrong on many levels. Everyone just focuses on the one video, and completely misses the others to see where this was building from. As most people are looking at the one video, many who never followed Foch, are missing his common message of the power creep of premium tanks on PC, and the direction that Wargaming is going of profit over game play quality as these tanks force players to use premium ammo, premium ammo that has to be supported with real money going to Wargaming in the purchase of premium tanks and premium time. Wargaming threatening a copyright strike was just the tip of the iceberg in this.

VK 100.01
https://www.youtube....h?v=15nWtuipyX8

Maus
https://www.youtube....EwwVjX2ak&t=13s

Type 5
https://www.youtube....h?v=8x32aBLjHYs

Obj 252u
https://www.youtube....h?v=W-XPe5z7-G0

T26E5/Patriot
https://www.youtube....bZ4b79p8&t=333s

AMX M4 mle 49/Liberte
https://www.youtube....h?v=fB16Wclj8fE

 

We have the way I see it two options.  We can take a stand a voice our opinions to Raibot, Max, Pain, etc now saying we don't want this coming to console.  Or we can put our heads in the sand and hope it doesn't come to console, which as you know most does and already players here are requesting these tanks.  Looking at the people wanting the broken Obj 252u here.  


Edited by BM9875, 22 May 2017 - 07:12 AM.

Garage Tanks

 


xPanzergeistx #2 Posted 20 May 2017 - 04:39 AM

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Never seen his vids, barely know who he is.  I doubt a bunch of posts about it will make any difference.  In before locked.

 

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RaivoAntti #3 Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:11 AM

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I have always liked Sir Fochs videos and especially reviews. You may not like his style if you are thin skinned but he is one of the few wot youtubers that always tells how things are in bad and good. A company who can't take criticism is a company that does not evolve. Pretty disgusting behavior from WG. 

 



suicidalblues #4 Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:46 AM

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Dude in the video needs to calm the F down! Thought he was gonna come right through the screen.

PaladinLM17 #5 Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:48 AM

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The team that makes Console WoT is completely seperate to the team who makes PC WoT

 

Don't violate my NAP!


Sovietdeath #6 Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:22 AM

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View PostBM9875, on 20 May 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

Agree, don't agree that is a personal choice.  One thing I do agree with is freedom of speech and the right to criticize and make feelings and objections known.  In my view what Wargamming did to him in threatening him with a copyright strike was one of the most unprofessional thing I have seen a company do.  There is a principle here, and in my view this New Russian Mafia threats and attacks is shameful at best, criminal at worst.  

 

 

Unprofessional? maybe, Though many many companies have done it, but within thier rights on YouTube? Certainly! Since i just wrote about this in a different thread ill add my thoughts here.

 

View PostSovietdeath, on 20 May 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Im going to try to be impartial here as free speech is certainly Paramount to the discussion. 

(Keep in mind these are my personal thoughts on the situation)

 

To put it simply, Sir Foch did violate rules of WG's CC Programs so there is no real issue with WG terminating him from the program as there are certainly rules about trying to remain family friendly.

 

Now on the terms of "Strikes" with YouTube it really depends on how YouTube rules it. With the language and insults involved with the situation (as well as WG owning all rights to  said game) I can see this thing rolling WGs way. 

 

Sir Foch is free to fight said claims to "Copyright" issues but in terms of the language involved he probably still would lose the ability to make money on the video at minimum​, if not be forced to take it down. You really don't have free speech protections on YouTube afterall and are subject to thier rules.

 

"Keep in mind many games do actively protect thier games on YouTube through demonitizing games/taking them down to prevent spoilers/ect."

(Nintendo used to do this religiously, but have recently started laxing this policy)

 

Game companies have full rights to control thier YouTube Content, the only way for Foch to speak as freely without a strike (for Copyright) is to comment on the game without the game being featured on screen.

 

Pre-Release/"Sponsored" content is abit of a tricky slope though as agreements made beforehand may come into play, while WG certainly prefers favorable reviews, they gladly accept criticism as long as its constructive and family friendly. Jingles, QB, and others, have all critizied WG many times but usually in a well received critique.

 


simo_p_ #7 Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:34 AM

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Love sir Foch's saltiness.... in moderation. He provides a critical voice which is always needed!

 

As highlighted he did get terminated for breaking CC rules...fair enough. WG have said Youtubers can create what ever content they want, I'm sure the quote is in this thread already.

 

Potentially the language used should of been less salty but I find hitting him with a copyright infringement to be in bad faith. Listening to your harshest critics if presented in a constructive manner can give WG invaluable feed back.

 

 


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Sovietdeath #8 Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:40 AM

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View Postsimo_p_, on 20 May 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

 

Potentially the language used should of been less salty but I find hitting him with a copyright infringement to be in bad faith. Listening to your harshest critics if presented in a constructive manner can give WG invaluable feed back.

 

This right here is the key words, and this is why Foch's original video was threatened to be taken down. It wasn't contructive from whats been said. Specially in the language used. You can be quite critical of WG as long as you stay on Topic and constructive. Boiling into insults and language is pretty much asking to be hit with a possible strike.

 

Is it bad faith? Eh its certainly a grey area but WG is free to do as they wish and it would be up to YouTube to decide on the video.



DecoNoir #9 Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:45 AM

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Ok, first off:.

1- Foch doesn't give a [edited], so stop trying to turn him into some sort of martyr. 

 

2- WG didn't threaten him with a copywrite strike, it was one CC manager in the EU office who ran his mouth off faster than he could think, and he actually has no authority in that matter anyway.

 

Seriously, I'm all for criticizing WG when they deserve it (and they do deserve it), but you chumps are making this a way bigger deal than it is. Stop. All you're doing is hurting the community that actually has valid criticisms. For crying out loud we already have threads popping up going on about how awesome WG CB look now. 

 

Take. A. Chill. Pill.

 

Seriously, we have more pressing issues that need to be addressed in OUR game before we start acting like headless chickens about an exchange between a PC content creator and a WG EU CC manager.

 

 


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xPanzergeistx #10 Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:47 AM

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View PostDecoNoir, on 20 May 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

Ok, first off:.

1- Foch doesn't give a [edited], so stop trying to turn him into some sort of martyr. 

 

2- WG didn't threaten him with a copywrite strike, it was one CC manager in the EU office who ran his mouth off faster than he could think, and he actually has no authority in that matter anyway.

 

Seriously, I'm all for criticizing WG when they deserve it (and they do deserve it), but you chumps are making this a way bigger deal than it is. Stop. All you're doing is hurting the community that actually has valid criticisms. For crying out loud we already have threads popping up going on about how awesome WG CB look now. 

 

Take. A. Chill. Pill.

 

Seriously, we have more pressing issues that need to be addressed in OUR game before we start acting like headless chickens about an exchange between a PC content creator and a WG EU CC manager.

 

 

 

Holy [edited]a voice of reason!

 

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DecoNoir #11 Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:51 AM

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View PostxPanzergeistx, on 19 May 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

 

Holy [edited]a voice of reason!

 

Well when you talk to PC community contributors every day you tend to get an actual perspective on PC goings on.

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Sovietdeath #12 Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:04 AM

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View PostDecoNoir, on 20 May 2017 - 02:51 AM, said:

 

Well when you talk to PC community contributors every day you tend to get an actual perspective on PC goings on.

Overreactions build other Overreactions afterall, people love drama.



DecoNoir #13 Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:08 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 19 May 2017 - 11:04 PM, said:

Overreactions build other Overreactions afterall, people love drama.

 

And I don't particularly care about it either way, but I'd rather not have PC's non issues distracting from things that need to be addressed in our game. As well as that, criticizing WG for something that didn't happen only invalidates and trivializes the legitimate concerns here.

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Sovietdeath #14 Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:14 AM

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View PostDecoNoir, on 20 May 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

 

And I don't particularly care about it either way, but I'd rather not have PC's non issues distracting from things that need to be addressed in our game. As well as that, criticizing WG for something that didn't happen only invalidates and trivializes the legitimate concerns here.

Agreed on that front, the game certainly isn't perfect but arguing YouTube/WG policy is pretty pointless. 



HeckuvaMonkey47 #15 Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:06 AM

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View PostDecoNoir, on 20 May 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

Ok, first off:.

1- Foch doesn't give a [edited], so stop trying to turn him into some sort of martyr. 

 

2- WG didn't threaten him with a copywrite strike, it was one CC manager in the EU office who ran his mouth off faster than he could think, and he actually has no authority in that matter anyway.

 

Seriously, I'm all for criticizing WG when they deserve it (and they do deserve it), but you chumps are making this a way bigger deal than it is. Stop. All you're doing is hurting the community that actually has valid criticisms. For crying out loud we already have threads popping up going on about how awesome WG CB look now. 

 

Take. A. Chill. Pill.

 

Seriously, we have more pressing issues that need to be addressed in OUR game before we start acting like headless chickens about an exchange between a PC content creator and a WG EU CC manager.

 

 

 

I second this !! Well said :great:

GENERAL G 69 #16 Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:28 AM

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Dont know who he is,dont care I'm off to make some very serious life choices right now..........................yeah defo made my mind up I'm off to play WOT and maybe have that extra spoon of sugar in my coffee. Damn life choices are hard ;)

UngainlyTitan1 #17 Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:33 AM

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Personally never cared for SirFoch's stuff but that said using copyright strike to take down a video is bad form but not illegal according to my reading of the EULA for console. From what I can make out we make YouTube videos at Wargamings sufferance there is no permission given in the EULA. 
Now on  My Youtube Channel

vVMr GoodCatVv #18 Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:35 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 20 May 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

 

This right here is the key words, and this is why Foch's original video was threatened to be taken down. It wasn't contructive from whats been said. Specially in the language used. You can be quite critical of WG as long as you stay on Topic and constructive. Boiling into insults and language is pretty much asking to be hit with a possible strike.

 

Is it bad faith? Eh its certainly a grey area but WG is free to do as they wish and it would be up to YouTube to decide on the video.

 

Lol no. It would be upto the law not YouTube. 

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Red Five R5 #19 Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:39 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 20 May 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

 

This right here is the key words, and this is why Foch's original video was threatened to be taken down. It wasn't contructive from whats been said. Specially in the language used. You can be quite critical of WG as long as you stay on Topic and constructive. Boiling into insults and language is pretty much asking to be hit with a possible strike.

 

Is it bad faith? Eh its certainly a grey area but WG is free to do as they wish and it would be up to YouTube to decide on the video.

 

soviet, no offence but how many times are you going to say the same thing over & over? WG is within their rights, Foch crossed the line etc

 

everyone expects Foch to cross the line or come close to it, that's what he does

I was very surprised to find that he actually was a CC, given how salty he gets

the guy is being threatened with a copyright strike, why? 

hes wasn't told 'take the vid down or you are no longer a CC', the CC status was revoked straight away

copyright strikes can shut channels & Youtubers down,

ask Maxwell (pc & console WOT utuber), he had a petty copyright strike against him and had to start from scratch

Youtube doesn't have a helpline or any kind of support where you can sort problems out quickly

no monetizing, no scheduled releases, no thumbnails for months...you might as well give up

If WG doesn't want to be affiliated with Foch, then revoking the CC status is enough

What on earth does a copyright strike accomplish? What is the point of it? Apart from making the guys life difficult for no reason.

 

WG is free to do what they want? Everyone is, doesn't mean they should. Copyright strikes is measure of last resort and usually used when footage is being used without permission.


 

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BM9875 #20 Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:19 AM

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View PostPaladinLM17, on 20 May 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

The team that makes Console WoT is completely seperate to the team who makes PC WoT

 

That is why I give console some understanding more than PC.  If I have an issue serious enough I'll ask Max or Raibot, but even here is not immune to silencing players.  

 

View PostSovietdeath, on 20 May 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

 

Unprofessional? maybe, Though many many companies have done it, but within thier rights on YouTube? Certainly! Since i just wrote about this in a different thread ill add my thoughts here.

 

Im going to try to be impartial here as free speech is certainly Paramount to the discussion. 

(Keep in mind these are my personal thoughts on the situation)

 

To put it simply, Sir Foch did violate rules of WG's CC Programs so there is no real issue with WG terminating him from the program as there are certainly rules about trying to remain family friendly.

 

By Foch's admission WG knew what they were getting when they signed him on, and he never looked to be a CC. 

 

"Some other things to clear up. All of you who are asking: "Why did I become CC?", well they just made me one, I did not have to Sign anything and they did not pay me anything, and I told them right at the start that I wont change my style because of this and that they should not put their jobs on the line if people upstairs get upset. And being a CC does not mean I have to kiss WG [edited]with every video, I have like minded community behind me and they are the ones I represent on my channel." - Sir Foch

Source:

https://www.reddit.c...up_some_things/

 

Now on the terms of "Strikes" with YouTube it really depends on how YouTube rules it. With the language and insults involved with the situation (as well as WG owning all rights to  said game) I can see this thing rolling WGs way. 

 

Sorry but can't be used as a base for your argument, and clearly you never saw his video.  No where in it did he show any game play and the entire video was him using Tank.gg.  Second under Fair Use he could have used video of game play to base his argument, I refer you to Rags and his videos.

https://www.youtube....v=VT36zcdnAKM - link to original in comments

 

Sir Foch is free to fight said claims to "Copyright" issues but in terms of the language involved he probably still would lose the ability to make money on the video at minimum​, if not be forced to take it down. You really don't have free speech protections on YouTube afterall and are subject to thier rules.

 

He by his own admission doesn't make money off WG so this is a non issue too.  

 

"And for those of You who say: "Well you should not bite the hand that feeds you" WG is not my employer, they don't pay me. I get payed by my community with the help of Twitch and You tube, and World of Tanks is just a tool for me to do that." - Sir Foch

Source:

https://www.reddit.c...up_some_things/

 

"Keep in mind many games do actively protect thier games on YouTube through demonitizing games/taking them down to prevent spoilers/ect."

(Nintendo used to do this religiously, but have recently started laxing this policy)

 

Game companies have full rights to control thier YouTube Content, the only way for Foch to speak as freely without a strike (for Copyright) is to comment on the game without the game being featured on screen.

 

In this case Fair Use allows him to use video of game play to support his topic of argument.  More important again no game play was used and the entire video was him in Tank.gg talk and giving views.

https://www.youtube....h?v=VT36zcdnAKM - link to original in comments

 

Pre-Release/"Sponsored" content is abit of a tricky slope though as agreements made beforehand may come into play, while WG certainly prefers favorable reviews, they gladly accept criticism as long as its constructive and family friendly. Jingles, QB, and others, have all critizied WG many times but usually in a well received critique.

 

In conclusion could you please know what you are talking about before you start talking.

 

 

Also for the people saying that it was an employee of Wargaming PC and not Wargaming, stop being apologists.  Doesn't matter, as the person who said it had said it acting as an official officer of Wargaming, by which Wargaming said it.  

 

More important is that there is a principle here, and if people can't see the abuse of someone out of this in my view you are what is wrong with gaming today.  The attitude of just take it and companies can do whatever they want deal with it, or it isn't happening to me so why should I care.  

 

I'll add as well that in my views Foch's behavior is a result of one OP tank after another being put out by WG in an effort to profit off the player base.  Also the reaction of players in support of him is both principle and in direct relation to this same power creep WG is using.  Jingles sort of says the same thing, and things just reached a breaking point.

https://www.youtube....h?v=NIjuYybgRkc


Garage Tanks

 





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