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New player experience vs veteran player


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ralfybaby62 #41 Posted 15 July 2017 - 03:06 PM

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COD is worse. Players with better weapons, larger magazines, more perks, etc. Much worse.


Black RL #42 Posted 15 July 2017 - 03:36 PM

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View Postralfybaby62, on 15 July 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

COD is worse. Players with better weapons, larger magazines, more perks, etc. Much worse.

 

Last COD I played was COD4, but I keep reading what you're saying, Gears seems to be one of the last games that provides equal tools for everybody.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


wu_dot_com #43 Posted 15 July 2017 - 04:38 PM

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I disagree with OP's perspective on how veteran players gets better equipments.

 

equipment can be bought on any TT tanks from the start, thus it is a choice to not use a fully equipped tank. A noob can decided to do their research and buy the equipment, yet many of them simply choose to do nothing and complain. It is their failure to adapt as the root of all this evil. 

 

WOT isn't tic-tac-to, it needs complexity to keep people of all levels entertained. Thus to attain mastery, one must spend time to learn and understand.

 

the one skill that makes a really big noticeable difference is 6 sense. Every other pers are just cream cream on the top. Thus only players who understand the game mechanics can take advantage of it.

 

with this being said, there isn't a whole lot of difference when a veterinarian is training a fresh zero skill crew vs a noob. The practical edge comes from the fact that vertens are armed with better knowledge, thus they play better games.

 

 

PS. For all the haters out there. Crap all you want on premiums tanks/rounds/consumables. A knowledgeable vet knows how to use them effectively in manners that suits their style. 

 

 

 

 



GardogOne #44 Posted 15 July 2017 - 04:39 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 15 July 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

 

Evolution, competition, survival of the fittest and all that!

 

But my main goal was to point out how the same tool is so different when enhanced, how veterans have better tools.

 

Point noted and well accepted.  



Black RL #45 Posted 15 July 2017 - 04:49 PM

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View Postwu_dot_com, on 15 July 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

I disagree with OP's perspective on how veteran players gets better equipments.

 

equipment can be bought on any TT tanks from the start, thus it is a choice to not use a fully equipped tank. A noob can decided to do their research and buy the equipment, yet many of them simply choose to do nothing and complain. It is their failure to adapt as the root of all this evil. 

 

WOT isn't tic-tac-to, it needs complexity to keep people of all levels entertained. Thus to attain mastery, one must spend time to learn and understand.

 

the one skill that makes a really big noticeable difference is 6 sense. Every other pers are just cream cream on the top. Thus only players who understand the game mechanics can take advantage of it.

 

with this being said, there isn't a whole lot of difference when a veterinarian is training a fresh zero skill crew vs a noob. The practical edge comes from the fact that vertens are armed with better knowledge, thus they play better games.

 

 

PS. For all the haters out there. Crap all you want on premiums tanks/rounds/consumables. A knowledgeable vet knows how to use them effectively in manners that suits their style. 

 

 

 

 

 

What if the new player doesn't has enough silver to buy the equipments? I'm trying to show what new players face, and I mean new.

 

Anyway, "A knowledgeable vet knows how to use them effectively", I heartily agree!

 

View PostGardogOne, on 15 July 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

 

Point noted and well accepted.  

 

Thanks commander! o7

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


wu_dot_com #46 Posted 15 July 2017 - 08:18 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 15 July 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

What if the new player doesn't has enough silver to buy the equipments? I'm trying to show what new players face, and I mean new.

 

Anyway, "A knowledgeable vet knows how to use them effectively", I heartily agree!

 

 

Thanks commander! o7

Not having enough silver is an individual problem. The said noob can buy silver, buy primum tanks to grind silver, or simply hold off advancing to the next tier and save.

 

 

if the said gamer cannot manage the simple economics of this, then it's a failure of the individual.

 

also feel free to disagree, but you are simply wrong. when I say knowledgeable I mean above average players, not your typical T10 noob with 46% wr.

 

 



THE CLOSER11 #47 Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:55 PM

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Vets experienced this too.

 

When the game first launched we had to grind tanks that we had in beta.  So we're in tier 3 tanks facing platoons of T 14s.  And once you got that shiny T 1 Heavy, You had to face a T26E3 with 1400 hp and better armor than you.  

 

It's all the same.   If seals didn't want to get Xbox clubbed they shouldn't be seals.


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jprs201024 #48 Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:13 PM

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View Postwu_dot_com, on 15 July 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

 

equipment can be bought on any TT tanks from the start, thus it is a choice to not use a fully equipped tank. A noob can decided to do their research and buy the equipment, yet many of them simply choose to do nothing and complain. It is their failure to adapt as the root of all this evil. 

 

 

 

A new player can bought equipment and consumables but can´t bought with silver skills to the crew of the tank.... And a crew with 4 or 5 or plus skills can make the difference in battle... Mainly in lower tiers (1 to 5)... And I'm not a great player and I notice the difference when I start a new line and I transfer a crew with skills to a tiers 2 or 3....
 

 



jprs201024 #49 Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:24 PM

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View Postsumplkrum, on 14 July 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yes. A veteran player benefits, having accumulated 'stuff'.
Equipment, crew skills, consumables, premium tanks (even ones given for free), silver for gold rounds ... and plenty of additional experience.
 
The game requires tons of investment to do well ... which is why it's frustrating that the learning curve for new players is so steep.

A new player can certainly grind equipment, but general observation says that's usually a secondary concern for players tier V and below.

 

Agree with you. One solution is for WG to impose some limitation on the lower tiers. But I think this would generate conflict with the more experienced players...

 

 

 



LeftTurnus #50 Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:41 AM

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View Postjprs201024, on 16 July 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

 

Agree with you. One solution is for WG to impose some limitation on the lower tiers. But I think this would generate conflict with the more experienced players...

 

 

 

 

There is somewhat of a limitation for Tier 1, which was confirmed by Max that has to do with battle count.

Outside of that, it would not be right to not allow experienced players in the lower tiers considering you have to grind the tanks in a line.

Sure, alot of people just free XP past them, but I prefer grinding the tanks. It would not be fair to have the tanks in a line yet not allow us to play them?

 

 



oboeslayer #51 Posted 17 July 2017 - 05:19 AM

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https://youtu.be/7wlTu99KweY

Personally, for me, I find zero enjoyment in seal clubbing. Like Foch, I actually enjoy a challenge not an easy victory to stroke my ego.
In fact, as a medium tank player at tier 10 I complain about the OP e5's and TD's but in reality if everything was well balanced I would get rather bored.

Also, if I see someone has a lot of games in lower tiers I don't automatically assume they are bad. But I do subtract a few hundred points from their WN8 in my head to get a real idea of what kind of player they are.

 

"Evil is relatively rare. Ignorance is epidemic." - Jon Stewart


Black RL #52 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:03 AM

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View Postwu_dot_com, on 15 July 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

Not having enough silver is an individual problem. The said noob can buy silver, buy primum tanks to grind silver, or simply hold off advancing to the next tier and save.

 

 

if the said gamer cannot manage the simple economics of this, then it's a failure of the individual.

 

also feel free to disagree, but you are simply wrong. when I say knowledgeable I mean above average players, not your typical T10 noob with 46% wr.

 

 

 

Why should I disagree? Nothing you said changes what a new player has to face, if anything we agree.

 

View Postoboeslayer, on 17 July 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

https://youtu.be/7wlTu99KweY

Personally, for me, I find zero enjoyment in seal clubbing. Like Foch, I actually enjoy a challenge not an easy victory to stroke my ego.
In fact, as a medium tank player at tier 10 I complain about the OP e5's and TD's but in reality if everything was well balanced I would get rather bored.

Also, if I see someone has a lot of games in lower tiers I don't automatically assume they are bad. But I do subtract a few hundred points from their WN8 in my head to get a real idea of what kind of player they are.

 

Good!

 

The only thing I do in low tiers is the mastery badge, imo Wargaming should remove that from that tanks or something, there shouldn't exist objectives for veterans at low tiers.


Edited by Black RL, 17 July 2017 - 09:48 AM.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


jprs201024 #53 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:49 AM

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Hello,

 

For me, the big problem that the game is facing to not be able to fix new players, has to do with the enormous difference between the experienced players face to new players.

When I started playing, about three years ago, I've met some experienced players coming from BETA, but these "experienced" players had only a few months of experience but these few months already do some difference on the gameplay between the "beta" and the new players.
Imagine a new player that is starting now, having to face players with three years of experience in the game! Imagine, new players that find themselves in battle, in tiers 3 or 4 or 5, have to facing extremely experienced players who are in these tiers because it´s more easier to farm WN8 ... And to win rare medals and so one ...

Recently, I started grinding the Czech line, and in a battle with the tier 5 of that line, on my team was a player on a T67. This player, in a short time, kill 9 reds and made a spectacular game.... Because I'm curios, I went to see the stats of this player and he had 20K of battles, only on that tank!!!!!
Now, imagine what the new players who might have been on the red team should have thought about the T67 driver! I bet many have said, "the game is full of cheaters! That guy was a cheater"!
W
hy did I mention "cheaters"? Because recently I've convinced 10 or 15 friends to play WOT, and when they face players with this experience (like the T67 driver), their reaction was this: "the game it's full of cheaters!"
​When I tried to explained the reasons for the difference in the gameplay between my friends (new players) and those experienced players, many of then 
answered thus, "the game it's very difficult for new players and we felt like cannon fodder for more experienced players!"
Result? How many of my friends are in the game? NONE! They gave it all up!


Regards


Edited by jprs201024, 17 July 2017 - 03:24 PM.


Black RL #54 Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:21 AM

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View Postjprs201024, on 17 July 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

Hello,

 

For me, the big problem that the game is facing to not be able to fix new players, has to do with the enormous difference between the experience players face to new players.

When I started playing, about three years ago, I've met some experienced players coming from BETA, but these "experienced" players had only a few months of experience but these few months already do some difference on the gameplay between the "beta" and the new players.
Imagine a new player that is starting now, having to face players with three years of experience in the game! Imagine, new players that find themselves in battle, in tiers 3 or 4 or 5, have to facing extremely experienced players who are in these tiers because it´s more easier to farm WN8 ... And to win rare medals and so one ...

Recently, I started grinding the Czech line, and in a battle with the tier 5 of that line, on my team was a player on a T67. This player, in a short time, kill 9 reds and made a spectacular game.... Because I'm curios, I went to see the stats of this player and he had 20K of battles, only on that tank!!!!!
Now, imagine what the new players who might have been on the red team should have thought about the T67 driver! I bet many have said, "the game is full of cheaters! That guy was a cheater"!
W
hy did I mention "cheaters"? Because recently I've convinced 10 or 15 friends to play WOT, and when they face players with this experience (like the T67 driver), their reaction was this: "the game it's full of cheaters!"
​When I tried to explained the reasons for the difference in the gameplay between my friends (new players) and those experience players, many of then 
answered thus, "the game it's very difficult for new players and we felt like cannon fodder for more experienced players!"
Result? How many of my friends are in the game? NONE! They gave it all up!


Regards

 

Exactly what I'm trying to show with this thread, what a new player faces, thanks for sharing!

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Aidan43 #55 Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:30 AM

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I agree with OP's statement that new players are up against it , we have all been there I remember my first line I did was the E-50M got smashed and still do BTW.  From the Panther up what a grind that was ! Remember getting blasted by the old KV1-S when lower tier  But I stuck at it and got one and learnt how to play it. New players are going to give up no matter what game they play. If you work hard at this game it can be such a joy to play.  I'm an old fart and don't have the reflexes that the younger players have and really don't care to much or think about how good they are, I just see a red tank and know they need to be sent back to the garage. Some hints for newcomers IMO the three most important parts of this game is ,1. Do damage. 2. Memorise the maps and get into position quickly. 3. Conserve your hit points and don't play your new tank stock get at least the first package upgrade.

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HaloPro058 #56 Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:03 PM

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In this Wargame Knowledge is Power.

TocFanKe4 #57 Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:11 PM

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View PostHaloPro058, on 17 July 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

In this Wargame Knowledge is Power.

 

Yep. Knowledge in both how to play, and what to put on your tank.  It is as it should be.  Your vets should have more stuff than new players because they've supported the game longer.  That's their reward. 

 

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MR WilsonVA #58 Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:42 PM

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For me, I could not wait to be that "Veteran Player".  That was my drive.  Just like grinding through a "Bad Tank" to get to a good tank.  Or Grinding out a bad "Package" to get the good gun.  Like most things, it just takes one or two good games to keep me going.  We all have the "Bad Game" or run of "Bad Luck".  It just takes a single good one to keep us going.

 

I think some of what we see here has to do with the "Always a Winner" attitude.  Tanks is a game about taking your lumps, and learning lessons.  Like no matter how many times I shoot at the Hull Down T-29, I will not Pen him.  Or, why you do not YOLO down TD Ally at the beginning of the Cliff Map.  This can be felt in some other threads about people moving from Low Tier to Mid Tier to High Tier to fast, and not learning along the way.  


 

 


DustyHooves #59 Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

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The only "better tools" the vets have are their brains. Everyone else has access to the same tools. Maybe not at the exact moment they would like them, but this game is a game of patience. A noob can't get a tier 10 right now just because he wants one. It takes time and grinds to get there. 

As far as silver for buying the tools, if a fool can't budget his spending, that's not WG's fault. There are tons of very helpful threads here about managing ones silver spending. Full of lots of good tips and tricks. Not to mention all the gift premiums that were given away. Those just need to be played once in awhile to earn some silver. Only an idiot can't manage his silver. I've never bought premium time and yet I'm sitting on a horde of silver that a dragon would be proud of.
The thing about it is, everyone these days has a bad case of impulse control. They want the next package, the next tank NOW! They don't see the benefit of playing a tank longer than needed to unlock the next one. If they slowed their roll, after eleting the tank they would be earning more free xp and crew xp as well as silver.
There is a good phrase that comes to mind. "fools rush in" Very appropriate.

The ratio of new players to old is way in the favor of the old. I rarely get killed in battle by someone with less than a year in game or less than 10,000 battles.
Most of my deaths are by the hands of players with thousands of games in one single tank. And the reason for that isn't because that tank is blatantly OP, it's because the player (like those sad idiots who still rock a mullet 20 + years after it stopped being cool) never moved on to different tanks.

As someone who's reflexes and eye-hand aren't what they used to be (not to mention eyesight), I need all my "crutches" to perform to an average standard. Fuel for slow tanks, premium rounds for ones with pen problems, and so forth. Because I can't compete one-on-one in a fair match with twitchy kids hopped up on energy drinks. 
This game will never be fair or balanced. Ever. And new players will always be at a disadvantage because the majority of players have been here for years and have 10's of thousands of battles of experience to rely on.
People go on about things like nerfs, buffs, skill based MM OP tanks, premium rounds ad nauseam. It's all just a waste of breath.
There's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. Nothing. Better to just have a drink, accept it and roll out.

 

KillDozer33 #60 Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:00 PM

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View PostTheRedBaron8888, on 14 July 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

I'm a new player only a couple thousand games, running into better players and better equiped tanks doesn't bother me i've enjoyed the challenge, getting 1 shot by artillery for 1300hp is annoying it's still not the worst, this game can be expensive or free if your a bit of a masochist! The biggest thing doing it's best to turn me off and stop playing is the community, getting pushed out of cover and off hills, being shoved because you are in somebodies favourite spot, then there is the constant hate mail! Your crap, your useless.Even when i got 7 kills and won the game for my team i get called a [edited] by the other team, so then you try and seek out info on the forums, 75 percent of the time the posts are negatives! All that does is make a new person not want to spend any money on a game that is dieing. Not everybody is willing persevere like i am. In every game i've done nothing other than try to play the game in the right way, people should be able to play the game however they want to.

 

Yeah man everything you said is pretty much true I'm sad to say, been there done that. You could get a dominatrix to treat you like that, it might even be cheaper and hell you'd even get a happy ending. :sceptic:

 

Makes me wonder why you, I or others in our spot should even bother. The community is really helping to kill this game and has been as for long as I've been on the forums or longer IMO. I'm no angel(here or in game PMing)and it makes me rethink how I treat new players and I really think veterans of the game should consider it if they want the game to be supported and still be around as long as it can.






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