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New player experience vs veteran player


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BrownTrout79 #61 Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:12 PM

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As a Beta veteran, those of us that have been around that long have a distinct advantage in tiers 5+ for sure.

We started with only two nations and not even complete trees.

We have learned each new nation and their tanks as they were introduced. The positive and negative quirks about each and every vehicle during that long time span.

New players, especially above tier 5, are trying to take in a lot of information all at once, I can certainly understand some frustration.

But definitely something in the tutorial about spotting range, detected sixth sense, etc. needs to be implemented.

DustyHooves #62 Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:18 PM

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View PostKillDozer33, on 17 July 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

Yeah man everything you said is pretty much true I'm sad to say, been there done that. You could get a dominatrix to treat you like that, it might even be cheaper and hell you'd even get a happy ending. :sceptic:

 

Makes me wonder why you, I or others in our spot should even bother. The community is really helping to kill this game and has been as for long as I've been on the forums or longer IMO. I'm no angel(here or in game PMing)and it makes me rethink how I treat new players and I really think veterans of the game should consider it if they want the game to be supported and still be around as long as it can.

 

It's all nice to be moralistic but at some point, it's too late.
Like if you're a vegan because you feel that killing animals for food is wrong.
Well, guess what, no matter what you do, you're not going to stop it. Ever. You're a drop in the ocean and there's no way, whatever you do, you'll ever stop the seal clubbin.
You think there's anything you could possibly say to the guy with 5000 games in a T67 that will get him to sell it? Or the other guy with 12,000 games in the Pz II C? Heck no there isn't. And boycotting or going on a hunger strike will only end up hurting you.
But hey, if you sleep better at night because you don't play below tier 8 or because you don't tell potatoes to delete the game, go for it. Free will and all that.


 

Builder3rd #63 Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:19 AM

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Idk about this. The only thing a veteran player has over a new player is in game experience and crew skills. OP the examples you gave are available to everyone to purchase for just a few hundred silver. For tier 5's the additional equipment you mention that increases the T1 or KV1's effectiveness is able to be bought as soon as they purchase the tank. So I think that null and voids your points. When my nephew turned me on to this game he instructed me to always load up the new tank with equipment, repair tools, fire extinguishers and health packs asap. If a new player cannot afford the silver to do that, then they need to continue grinding out more silver before purchasing the new tank. In regards to experience in game and crew experience well that just comes with playing and nothing can compensate that, nor should it.

wu_dot_com #64 Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:43 AM

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View Postjprs201024, on 16 July 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

 

A new player can bought equipment and consumables but can´t bought with silver skills to the crew of the tank.... And a crew with 4 or 5 or plus skills can make the difference in battle... Mainly in lower tiers (1 to 5)... And I'm not a great player and I notice the difference when I start a new line and I transfer a crew with skills to a tiers 2 or 3....
 

 

Is there a difference between skill crew vs unskill crew. Sure, but not as much as you think even in T1-5.

 

at T1-5, viewrange is the most critical status between winning and losing. Most tanks in T1-5  have an  avg 320M base viewrange, combine with BOA, Recon and SA, (3skills), it would still be below 380M. Thus it mean you will be spotted on the move, and you will most likely be spotted when fire if the reds are within 445m. Most tanks die early in T1-5 because the driver have no idea that they are spotted and pre aimed until it's too late due to lack of six sense.

 

with this being said, it's the driver, not the tanks that makes a difference. 

 

Every tanks have its OP strength and weakness. The difference between a good vet vs noob is that the vet knows what position/ situation his tanks needs to be in in order to excel. even OP tanks can't guarantee performance consistencyw without this understanding, 



WJS Osiris #65 Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:33 AM

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Whats funny to me is the fact the community seems to care more about player retention than WG does. Would I be playing my tier 5's as much as i do, if tier ten was balanced? probably not. Would more people stick around if tutorials were better at explaining advanced mechanics? yes they would. 

 

These answers are pretty obvious conclusions to come too even for a dunb [edited]like me so.... Will anything get done about it? ... I think you know the answer 



Black RL #66 Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:57 AM

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View PostMR WilsonVA, on 17 July 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

I think some of what we see here has to do with the "Always a Winner" attitude.

 

Let me just add the "feeling I have a chance attitude", you don't start your boxing career against Mike Tyson.

 

View PostDustyHooves, on 17 July 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

The only "better tools" the vets have are their brains.

 

Are you saying I'm SMART? ARE YOU? WOW THANKS! :D

 

Anyway, the pile of premium ammo + silver that I'm sitting in sure helps too!

 

View PostKillDozer33, on 17 July 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Yeah man everything you said is pretty much true I'm sad to say, been there done that. You could get a dominatrix to treat you like that, it might even be cheaper and hell you'd even get a happy ending. :sceptic:

 

Makes me wonder why you, I or others in our spot should even bother. The community is really helping to kill this game and has been as for long as I've been on the forums or longer IMO. I'm no angel(here or in game PMing)and it makes me rethink how I treat new players and I really think veterans of the game should consider it if they want the game to be supported and still be around as long as it can.

 

Problem is that many times the message is "YOU IDIOT" instead of "USE OPTICS".

 

View PostBrownTrout79, on 17 July 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

As a Beta veteran, those of us that have been around that long have a distinct advantage in tiers 5+ for sure.

We started with only two nations and not even complete trees.

We have learned each new nation and their tanks as they were introduced. The positive and negative quirks about each and every vehicle during that long time span.

New players, especially above tier 5, are trying to take in a lot of information all at once, I can certainly understand some frustration.

But definitely something in the tutorial about spotting range, detected sixth sense, etc. needs to be implemented.

 

At this time, imo 6s should be default for every crew (ingame built) and detected removed.

 

View PostWJS Osiris, on 18 July 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

Whats funny to me is the fact the community seems to care more about player retention than WG does. Would I be playing my tier 5's as much as i do, if tier ten was balanced? probably not. Would more people stick around if tutorials were better at explaining advanced mechanics? yes they would. 

 

These answers are pretty obvious conclusions to come too even for a dunb [edited]like me so.... Will anything get done about it? ... I think you know the answer 

 

Good examples.


Edited by Black RL, 18 July 2017 - 08:58 AM.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


MR WilsonVA #67 Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:33 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 18 July 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

 

Let me just add the "feeling I have a chance attitude", you don't start your boxing career against Mike Tyson.

 

 

I agree with that statement.  The point that I was trying to make about the "Always a Winner" comment is more in line with Game Design.  Most games today seem to be built around a "Easy Mode".  You have some exceptions like the Dark Souls Series.  Most games do not have consequences for your death.  You just hit a button and respawn.  I think that is what I like about tanks.  You have one life in the battle, you need to use it well.  I think that is what makes the difference between a Veteran and a New Person.

 

 Think about how many times your were in a face to face, trading shots knowing full well that the other guys didn't stand a chance of winning.  It makes me laugh when a Tier III scout is trying to pen my Tier V Heavy from the front.  And he just sits their and lets me shoot him in the side.  While he did not stand a chance to kill me, he could have ran away and lived.  If he ran away, he could have kept me spotted for another team mate to kill me.


Edited by MR WilsonVA, 18 July 2017 - 12:34 PM.

 

 


EamonnanChnoic #68 Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:53 PM

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View Postjprs201024, on 17 July 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

"the game it's very difficult for new players and we felt like cannon fodder for more experienced players!"

 

It's always been like this.

 

I remember feeling that way.

 

My response was:

 

"I can't wait to be the more experienced player! I'm going to become one of those guys so that I won't be fodder anymore!"

 

It took a while, but I did it.


PS4 (current) Xbox (retired)

I love Light Tanks


KillDozer33 #69 Posted 18 July 2017 - 01:38 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 18 July 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

 

Problem is that many times the message is "YOU IDIOT" instead of "USE OPTICS".

 

 

Very true!:facepalm:



VKSheridan #70 Posted 18 July 2017 - 02:50 PM

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View PostWJS Osiris, on 18 July 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

Whats funny to me is the fact the community seems to care more about player retention than WG does. Would I be playing my tier 5's as much as i do, if tier ten was balanced? probably not. Would more people stick around if tutorials were better at explaining advanced mechanics? yes they would. 

 

These answers are pretty obvious conclusions to come too even for a dunb [edited]like me so.... Will anything get done about it? ... I think you know the answer 

 

I'm not too sure the community's "compassion" is all that sincere.  I got the POS Sexon I this morning and went into my first Tier III match in ages to put my one match on it before selling it.  I don't own Tier III tanks but hey, I'll take a freebie worth 1.2K gold and sell it.  The Sexon costs the most gold, hence why I picked it for silver resell value (if it even gets more)....

 

What I saw was appalling.  It was a two minute game and not a steamroll.

 

At the end of the game, I looked up stats of those who played on my iPad.  I won't name and shame but 50% of the players in there had well over 10K games (myself included).  The top three finishing players on both sides?  None less than 20K games.

 

Any idea on why guys with that many games are playing Tier III?  New grind?  Nope, they had tanks in the tree above what they were running.  Testing the freebie?  Two could have been, the other eight, nope.  Just love Tier III and the seal clubbing that comes with it?  Most likely.  Hardly compassion in my book.

 

WG needs to split the matches.  Nothing wrong running Tier III if you're into that stuff, just give the 3K or less guys their own match.

 

I need to take shower now.  One, for playing Tier III and the other for getting an arty.....



M1_x_1B #71 Posted 18 July 2017 - 03:24 PM

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View PostVKSheridan, on 18 July 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

WG needs to split the matches.  Nothing wrong running Tier III if you're into that stuff, just give the 3K or less guys their own match.

 

 

Although this would be a "nice, simple" implementation, I consider WG to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

I've said numerous times that WG encourages seal clubbing by:

 

1) making earn OPs available to Tier 3 (should be Tier 5+)

2) making premium tanks available in Tier 3

3) not restricting vets from playing lower tiers

 

I'm not really sure why people "want" to play lower tiers as they really aren't that fun as far as strategy and pace, but humans tend to take the "path of least resistance" and earn OPs are easier at lower tiers. Hell, there are times I even feel bad for playing Tier 5, but if I need xp and damage for an OP, you damn well know I'm playing my O-I Exp.



DustyHooves #72 Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:48 PM

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View PostM1_x_1B, on 18 July 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

 

Although this would be a "nice, simple" implementation, I consider WG to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

I've said numerous times that WG encourages seal clubbing by:

 

1) making earn OPs available to Tier 3 (should be Tier 5+)

2) making premium tanks available in Tier 3

3) not restricting vets from playing lower tiers

 

I'm not really sure why people "want" to play lower tiers as they really aren't that fun as far as strategy and pace, but humans tend to take the "path of least resistance" and earn OPs are easier at lower tiers. Hell, there are times I even feel bad for playing Tier 5, but if I need xp and damage for an OP, you damn well know I'm playing my O-I Exp.

 

Here's part of the reason it's hard for newbs in this game. There are, when it comes right down to it, two different games within the game.
Chess and "street fighter".
Why do some people like to play the lower tiers even if they have 20k + battles? (besides the ease and speed at which missions can be completed) It's because not everyone likes long drawn out games that are more like chess then a street fight. Playing the lower tiers is faster paced and more exciting. Most games above tier 7 are about as engaging as watching paint dry. Which is fine if that's your thing. I mean, that's why there are so many variations of tanks in the game. From zippy lights to barely mobile bunkers.
Something for everyone.
But you get a newb rushing to get himself a shiny new tier 10, maybe one week after downloading the game, because he thinks, like most games, that getting to tier 10 is like fighting the big boss battle at the end. Yet he still wants to play it like he did in the lower tiers. So he's hopelessly outclassed and hated on. But no one explained to him that the higher you go, the slower everything is too. And that it's not the "end game" and it's not for everyone.
 

VKSheridan #73 Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:12 AM

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View PostDustyHooves, on 18 July 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

Here's part of the reason it's hard for newbs in this game. There are, when it comes right down to it, two different games within the game.
Chess and "street fighter".
Why do some people like to play the lower tiers even if they have 20k + battles? (besides the ease and speed at which missions can be completed) It's because not everyone likes long drawn out games that are more like chess then a street fight. Playing the lower tiers is faster paced and more exciting. Most games above tier 7 are about as engaging as watching paint dry. Which is fine if that's your thing. I mean, that's why there are so many variations of tanks in the game. From zippy lights to barely mobile bunkers.
Something for everyone.
But you get a newb rushing to get himself a shiny new tier 10, maybe one week after downloading the game, because he thinks, like most games, that getting to tier 10 is like fighting the big boss battle at the end. Yet he still wants to play it like he did in the lower tiers. So he's hopelessly outclassed and hated on. But no one explained to him that the higher you go, the slower everything is too. And that it's not the "end game" and it's not for everyone.
 

 

You nailed it.  That's why I was thinking WG would do good separating the sheep from the wolves.  I don't mind a potato getting whooped in a Tier X game, that's his choice.  Knowing the taters have to grind through tiers three and four though?  That's like asking a bleeding fish to swim through a shark tank.  Just split the noobs out until they get a certain number of matches under their belt.  Easy peasy.

jprs201024 #74 Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:28 AM

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View PostVKSheridan, on 19 July 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

 

You nailed it.  That's why I was thinking WG would do good separating the sheep from the wolves.  I don't mind a potato getting whooped in a Tier X game, that's his choice.  Knowing the taters have to grind through tiers three and four though?  That's like asking a bleeding fish to swim through a shark tank.  Just split the noobs out until they get a certain number of matches under their belt.  Easy peasy.

 

Hello,

 

I think a good solution was WG not allow two things, between Tier 1 and Tier 5: one, the use of premium shells, the other, the use of crew with skills.

These two limitations, I believe, would remove many wolves from the corral of the sheep ...

Regards

 

 

 


Edited by jprs201024, 19 July 2017 - 09:29 AM.


KillDozer33 #75 Posted 21 July 2017 - 10:35 PM

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View PostDustyHooves, on 18 July 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

 

Here's part of the reason it's hard for newbs in this game. There are, when it comes right down to it, two different games within the game.
Chess and "street fighter".
Why do some people like to play the lower tiers even if they have 20k + battles? (besides the ease and speed at which missions can be completed) It's because not everyone likes long drawn out games that are more like chess then a street fight. Playing the lower tiers is faster paced and more exciting. Most games above tier 7 are about as engaging as watching paint dry. Which is fine if that's your thing. I mean, that's why there are so many variations of tanks in the game. From zippy lights to barely mobile bunkers.
Something for everyone.
But you get a newb rushing to get himself a shiny new tier 10, maybe one week after downloading the game, because he thinks, like most games, that getting to tier 10 is like fighting the big boss battle at the end. Yet he still wants to play it like he did in the lower tiers. So he's hopelessly outclassed and hated on. But no one explained to him that the higher you go, the slower everything is too. And that it's not the "end game" and it's not for everyone.
 

 

You read my mind, I feel lower tiers are more of an ''arcade experience" whereas higher are more "simulation like". It ads replay value to the game depending on your mood or skill level every time you play. It also ads depth to the game which helps continue its popularity since most players with half a brain see it is a very deep, long term research experience if you give it a chance.

 

If WG somehow kept noobs out of high tier play with a match count requirement or a really tough proving grounds op w/no prammo allowed before you could play higher tiers it could help immensely.

 

I don't think it would ever happen though as it would cut too deeply into WG's profit vs possibly keeping the game around longer.:sceptic:



LeftTurnus #76 Posted 22 July 2017 - 05:41 PM

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View PostM1_x_1B, on 18 July 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

 

Although this would be a "nice, simple" implementation, I consider WG to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

I've said numerous times that WG encourages seal clubbing by:

 

1) making earn OPs available to Tier 3 (should be Tier 5+)

2) making premium tanks available in Tier 3

3) not restricting vets from playing lower tiers

 

I'm not really sure why people "want" to play lower tiers as they really aren't that fun as far as strategy and pace, but humans tend to take the "path of least resistance" and earn OPs are easier at lower tiers. Hell, there are times I even feel bad for playing Tier 5, but if I need xp and damage for an OP, you damn well know I'm playing my O-I Exp.

 

Actually, WG should offer a set of Ops to Tiers I-III that are not available to players with over X amount of battles.

 

 



pingwrx #77 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:45 PM

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View PostLeftTurnus, on 22 July 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

 

Actually, WG should offer a set of Ops to Tiers I-III that are not available to players with over X amount of battles.

 

 

 

Sorry but that won't happen what's the word discrimination.


 


VKSheridan #78 Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:03 PM

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View Postpingwrx, on 22 July 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

Sorry but that won't happen what's the word discrimination.

 

True so how about they offer a separate set of Ops to higher match players more geared to their experience?  Make them work for a tank more in their range versus literally handing them a club to smack seals?  Imagine being a grunt trying for top five with 30% of your team being seasoned.  30% of 15 means the seasoned boys are probably going to get the top five spots (and points) over the taters.  That just adds that many more clubs to the herd at the expense of the new guys who really could benefit from gaining that low tiered rig.....

TocFanKe4 #79 Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:31 PM

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I mean, the current op is a new player op. I already have two of the three, and the US arty.  Players that have been here for years already have them for the most part

 

My dislike of +/- 1 pales in comparison to my hatred of Loaded Dice.


LeftTurnus #80 Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:17 AM

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View Postpingwrx, on 22 July 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

 

Sorry but that won't happen what's the word discrimination.

 

There's nothing wrong with this type of discrimination.

A beginner's set of Ops, for silver, XP, etc but toned down to the level of Tiers I to III.

But they are for beginners only.

 

There already is some similar discrimination, look at the Combat Car and other "Beginner" only giveaways.

 

 






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