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Are overpowered premium tanks p2w?


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DustyHooves #61 Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:50 PM

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View Postredshadowrider, on 16 July 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

No matter what GT you use, you always do the same thing that is most annoying. You require everyone but yourself to provide "proof" of their statements.  I don't agree with everything that the OP said, but understand there are degrees in every opinion expressed on this forum.  You continue to parade your opinions as fact also with no proof.  Personally, I don't care who is right, but this game is one of those that I have played, that very few players rise to the top level through experience and skill only.  If it weren't the case, the number of potatoes in the top tiers would be much less.  I have accepted the fact that I am just average and always be.  At my age, my hand eye coordination will never be what it was.  However, it doesn't make me blind to other possibilities.  AND...NO,  I AM NOT GOING TO PROVE IT!

 

What's his previous GT?

Mr Crowley ll #62 Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:50 PM

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View PostVKSheridan, on 16 July 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

 

Sorry bro, Premium items merely provide a means but it takes some talent to exploit the opportunity.

 

Put a tree skipper in a T34 and a grinder in a T32.  While to T34 offers greater payout potential, it doesn't guarantee it.  The grinder in the T32 will use what he learned to unlock that tank and get more silver and XP than the gold duster.  Run out in the open with all those gold purchased goods and see ya live longer, let alone rains money at the end of the game to ya.  Put the T34 in the hands of a skilled player and yes, he'll do well but he didn't buy those skills, he earned them.

 

If the OP titled the thread "Pay for Potntial", I'd be agreeing instead of rebutting.

 

To me the player that buys a T34 and the player that buys a bone stock T32 and free XPs to the final package by converting XP into free XP, are no different. 


 

 


BigHundy #63 Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:57 PM

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entire game is P2W. So what?


I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol, and cheap women. The other half I wasted -  W.C. Fields

 

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VKSheridan #64 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:38 PM

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View PostMr Crowley ll, on 16 July 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

 

To me the player that buys a T34 and the player that buys a bone stock T32 and free XPs to the final package by converting XP into free XP, are no different. 

 

True that and I agree.  The OP says buying rigs and gear is buying wins but I don't see it that way.  All the purchased chocolate, vents, tanks and perks simply do no good if the guy who bought them can't play well.   The example I gave compared a player who got the T32 by grinding, not buying.  He'll easily put the hurt to a gold plated, purchased perked T34 because he knows his tank, the maps and his crew from the grind.  Again, the T34 has more potential but it's the hands on the controller that converts it to earnings.  It's "pay for potential" to me.



USSWISCONSIN94 #65 Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:39 PM

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View PostBigHundy, on 16 July 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

entire game is P2W. So what?

Another one who doesn't get it. Jebus people


http://www.wotinfo.n...N94&server=xbox

youtube.com/channel/UCkXtmp3Ikozzl-K73GuxxNQ

 

Will WG ever have WoT offline like they promised?


BigHundy #66 Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:24 PM

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View PostUSSWISCONSIN94, on 16 July 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Another one who doesn't get it. Jebus people

 

so you don't think it's pay 2 win, or you're mad that I don't care that it's pay to win?

I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol, and cheap women. The other half I wasted -  W.C. Fields

 

On the last day of your life, don't forget to die.

 


USSWISCONSIN94 #67 Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:29 PM

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View PostBigHundy, on 16 July 2017 - 06:24 PM, said:

 

so you don't think it's pay 2 win, or you're mad that I don't care that it's pay to win?

Did i say it wasn't? Tanks like the 131 are P2W but don't see the whole game as P2W. That makes no sense


http://www.wotinfo.n...N94&server=xbox

youtube.com/channel/UCkXtmp3Ikozzl-K73GuxxNQ

 

Will WG ever have WoT offline like they promised?


BigHundy #68 Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:39 PM

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Premium ammo, consumables, premium time, premium vehicles, boost ops, the ability to buy silver w gold, the entire game is based on improving your ability one way or another, using gold.

 

there is no winning this game, per se, but those with the cash can sure make it easier on themselves.

 

that being said, skill > gold.

but skill+gold > skill without it

 

it may be a miniscule unmeassurable amount, but the games core is P2W .

and we'll never change that, so that's why I said who cares. It is what it is.


I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol, and cheap women. The other half I wasted -  W.C. Fields

 

On the last day of your life, don't forget to die.

 


GardogOne #69 Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:53 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 15 July 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Hi commanders! o7

 

I recently created two threads that sparked interesting debate, Food a p2w mechanism and New player experience vs veteran player, I had the opportunity to read ideas similar to mine and different ones, I also was presented with some great arguments, at least they made me think, and that's a good thing. Obviously, some of you also create great threads with great content, that leads me to this new one, so let's start with the disclaimer!

 

Disclaimer: I have the Tiger 131 (is there a better start for this disclaimer?), yes it [edited]in melts tanks, yes I don't mind it to be nerfed as long as I get a full refund.

 

And..... let's end this, this guy is dumb duh! If you have to pay for it then it's p2w, case closed, that simple.

 

But is it?

 

While discussing the food problem, many have said that no tomato turns into a carrot by using food, many extended this reasoning towards other equipments and supplies, same group finalized by saying that skilled players don't need the boosts to do good. In the end, what they were saying is that a better tool doesn't influence the winning if it's used by a tomato, only skilled players know how to take advantage of better tools. Some of this enthusiastic people go the extra mile and say that the best players don't even need premium ammo to do good, they solely rely on their skill, knowing weak spots etc.

 

So, and I'm not saying I agree with this, I'm just adding food for tough, can we apply the same logic to op premium tanks? Only the skilled players can take advantage of this better tools? because in the end that's what they are, better tools to do the job, the winning.

 

No? We can't? I'M DUMB? I'M A BADDY? I'M A LOOSER? I HAVE TO GIT GUD? Wait, wait.... I get it, I get it, no need to be harsh!

 

So, if we can't use the same logic, are we saying that better tools, as in a better tank, an op premium tank (or other for that matter), helps winning? Because, you know, we can't have both logic running at the same time, it's either:

 

RED PILL - better tools help everybody win

BLUE PILL - better tools only help very skilled players win

 

Choose carefully Neo.....

 

 

If we choose RED, then op premium tanks are a p2w problem, specially because they need to be paid with real money (no [edited]Sherlock!), at least some of them (they give tanks from time to time, might happen to be an op one - yeah, you're really clever! Damn!). But choosing RED also proves that better tools help people win, not just skill, but skill + better tools (maybe also platoons, etc, but this is not the point), and if better tools help winning, things very expensive, hardly obtained by f2p accounts such as premium rounds and food also help to win.

 

If we choose BLUE, well [edited]..... then op premium tanks aren't helping skilled players win, because if "BLUE - better tools only help very skilled players win" (damn I'm smart, did you see this copy/paste????), then only the skilled players are winning with them, and in accordance with the logic that skilled players don't need better tools to win, they would be winning anyways, effectively resulting in op premium tanks not being a problem.

 

So Neo, what pill do you choose?

 

Give a master carpenter the average handy man tools and he produces very good work. The handy man gets the job done  Give him the best tools and he produces works of art. The handy man gets the job done. It is the operator not the tool. Human skill is only enhanced by better equipment.

 

Btw, I obviously choose Blue.  Also, nice thought provoking threads op.



Black RL #70 Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:26 AM

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View PostShrimptation, on 15 July 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

I don't think he understands that an OP tank won't make a bad player super uni no matter how OP it is. Because if it's OP in hands of a potatoe then it's blatantly broken in the hands of a competent player. The standard for super uni will only get higher, not lower. 

 

Are you saying that the op tank helped the skilled player? And btw, there's only potatoes and super unis in the game? No filling?

 

View Postmikkoj, on 16 July 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

http://www.urbandict...term=pay-to-win

 

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

Facts are facts not opinions 

 

 

:)

 

View PostTurbo_RB20, on 15 July 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

How many threads do you have about p2w?

 

Nothing like the hornets nest.

 

View Postredshadowrider, on 16 July 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

 At my age, my hand eye coordination will never be what it was.  However, it doesn't make me blind to other possibilities.  AND...NO,  I AM NOT GOING TO PROVE IT!

 

You could show us your identity card! :D

 

View PostBigHundy, on 16 July 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

that being said, skill > gold.

but skill+gold > skill without it

 

This.

 

View PostGardogOne, on 16 July 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

 

Btw, I obviously choose Blue.  Also, nice thought provoking threads op.

 

Thanks!

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Unkempt #71 Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:11 PM

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View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 15 July 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

The tiger 131 is REALLY OP... Hammer is debatable, like the Mutant

 

There was simply no reason to buff it prior to release.

 

 

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KillDozer33 #72 Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

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View PostJAG THE GEMINI, on 15 July 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

The tiger 131 is REALLY OP... Hammer is debatable, like the Mutant

 

Hammer is NOT OP imo. w/pmm it would be. No pmm for 131= no longer OP.:B

KillDozer33 #73 Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:45 PM

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View PostKnot3D, on 16 July 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Well, the Grizzly, Vindicator and Defiance aren't OP for sure so if that's any indication of a trend.....

 

Those are just cash grabs for WG since they know a lot of collectors or noobs will buy ANYTHING..."click, click. click buzz, wrrr stand back guys money printer has started... yeah for WGA!" :facepalm:

 

It's smart on WG's part but It really shows where their heart is lately as it relates to the game's life cycle


Edited by KillDozer33, 17 July 2017 - 02:46 PM.


KillDozer33 #74 Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:55 PM

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Not sure what someone else might call it but a dude on the reddit wot forums recently was happy as hell to admit he's bought a buttload of Snake Bites and then sold them just to get the 5% special skill bonus the crew comes with to use with his already questionably OP UK tier X's!

 

Hmmm not sure about you but to me that smells A LOT like pay to win.:amazed:

 

 

The guy and his toadie are major dooshes, it's at the end of the thread btw.

 

https://www.reddit.c...ech_tree_tanks/

 

 

 

 


Edited by KillDozer33, 17 July 2017 - 03:05 PM.


Black RL #75 Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:12 PM

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View PostKillDozer33, on 17 July 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Not sure what someone else might call it but a dude on the reddit wot forums recently was happy as hell to admit he's bought a buttload of Snake Bites and then sold them just to get the 5% special skill bonus the crew comes with to use with his already questionably OP UK tier X's!

 

Hmmm not sure about you but to me that smells A LOT like pay to win.:amazed:

 

 

The guy and his toadie are major dooshes, it's at the end of the thread btw.

 

https://www.reddit.c...ech_tree_tanks/

 

Damn! Talk about being creative!

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


MR WilsonVA #76 Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:20 PM

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Based on some of the comments in this thread, would all Premium Tanks be considered pay to Win?  I base this on the extra Silver and XP that each tank receives.  Even in a really bad/poor performance game, a Premium Tank can still turn a nice profit.  

 

 


Black RL #77 Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:27 PM

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View PostMR WilsonVA, on 17 July 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Based on some of the comments in this thread, would all Premium Tanks be considered pay to Win?  I base this on the extra Silver and XP that each tank receives.  Even in a really bad/poor performance game, a Premium Tank can still turn a nice profit.  

 

I'm glad I'm making you think Neo, if you wish you can snooze all you want in this thread.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why. About broken tanks.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


FinlandRed #78 Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:28 PM

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View PostSgt Becket FEAR, on 16 July 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

To be fair, when you compare the TT Tiger I's numbers to the newer premium versions like 131, you have to remember that it was an underwhelming tank that was seen as a joke until WG buffed it almost two years after WoT was released on Console.

 

So, of course the difference is pretty large. The original Tiger I was a far cry from the OP monster we have now.

 

Preach on brother. The Tiger I in it's original configuration was spectacularly disappointing.

 

I can't speak about the OPness of 131 as I have two pools in it and 3 MoEs. I see plenty that are driven badly and have the occasional bad game myself in it but that's true of everything.

 

Don't know about other people but my Hammer is not OP. It sees far more than it fair share of Tier IXs

 

The Shameless might be P2W though.



TocFanKe4 #79 Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:33 PM

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Some are pay to win. The T-127 wins 61 percent of the time across all accounts on wotinfo. The Pz B2 wins 59 percent of the time.

 

The E25 was built for Shenanigans


DustyHooves #80 Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:43 PM

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View PostMR WilsonVA, on 17 July 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

Based on some of the comments in this thread, would all Premium Tanks be considered pay to Win?  I base this on the extra Silver and XP that each tank receives.  Even in a really bad/poor performance game, a Premium Tank can still turn a nice profit.  

 

I guess that would depend on your definition of "winning".
If winning is, to you, earning silver or a greater amount of xp, then yes, potentially. But still, a person has the ability to create works of art with his tools, or create garbage. It's all up to the player.

Let's take as an example, the Pz. II j

I drive it sometimes. And as a "regular" account holder, I lose between 35-50 thousand silver each time I do. Why? Because I spam 100% premmo.
I don't have to use premmo ammo. There's the option to not use it. But I don't play the II j to make silver. I cycle my crews through it for it's x2 and sometimes play it for the lol's.
The II j doesn't fit the definition of "winning" for me, because I'm losing. Same goes for other premium tanks. CKV-1 loses me silver too. Yet I play them.
So IMO, using your definition of winning, premium don't print silver. Premium tanks are just the printing press, the players skill is the printer.

 




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