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Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game


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Black RL #1 Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:49 PM

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Hi commanders! o7

 

This guy again..........? Give me a break guys!

 

This thread marks the end of my hateful 4, Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player and Are overpowered premium tanks p2w?. I'm going to lay out what is my opinion and why World of Tanks is perceived by so many people as a p2w game, or like some friendly commander said, why the myth prevails, as always let's start by the disclaimer.

 

Disclaimer: mods please don't delete this post, many thanks. I love this game, don't believe me? I dare you to find someone as active as me in the forums (yeah I'm sooooo active!) with as many battles as I have. This thread reflects my opinion, I'm obviously trying to convey a point and help others understand but my intent is not to force anyone to agree with me. Finally, I have huge experience as a f2p player, it was so long ago that I don't recall exactly what I achieved, but I believe I unlocked 3 tier X (T110E4, T110E5 and M48 Patton).

 

Let's start by talking about the economy in World of Tanks, so how does it works? Let's take a ride and see!

 

Chapter 1 (long one, you can skip to 2 if you want, but you will miss all the fun and memories) - a hero will rise

 

It seems straight forward enough, you play a game, at the end you are reward with two things according to your performance, xp and silver, at the same time you are presented by what could you have earned if you used a premium account. But who cares with premium anyways? I'm just shooting stuff.

 

If you reached the middle tiers and by extent didn't quit the game, you might start to wonder what all that slots and very confusing stuff in the garage are for. You read ingame info or reach to someone that is in a voice party with you, maybe you try it for yourself, [edited]me, this stuff costs a ton of money, what did he say? I need gold to dismount some of it? The [edited]is gold? What? Real money? [edited]that, I'm not doing that.

 

So you proceed doing your thing, I might consider a toolbox, at most a toolbox and some optics, dude says it adds 40% to view range or whatever, or was it 15%? Let me check, ah it's 25%. But shooting that expensive ammo? [edited]that, not in a million years. Suddenly two things happen, you notice a slight improvement in your gameplay but you also note that silver, not a problem in the past, might become a problem. But who cares with silver anyways? I'm just shooting stuff.

 

You continue your struggle in the mid tiers and you are finally closing in that tier 7, the big boys, did you see that T39 or was it T19? I'm sure it had a 9 in it, did you see that thing? Looks like an Alien! So awesome! Gonna destroy everything! When you finally reach it, oh boy, oh boy! Can't wait to test this beast!

 

Except you are caught in a tier 9 battle and get wrecked without making a single pen. W.T.F?!?!!?? Bunch of cheaters, I will show them next time! But next time isn't that great, maybe it's because I need the second package? It says attack or something, gonna rip them apart, but then you reach the second package and things are even worst, what the hell is happening!

 

At the same time you might, or might not be receiving messages that are really helpful, messages like "GIT GUD", "YOU SUCK", "UNINSTALL", "KILL YOURSELF" among other messages. You might get lucky and some of the messages try to explain you things, but to be honest I don't really understand what the guy is saying? Watch the mini map he said? What? The [edited]is that? Load some HE, like I know what that is.... Go hull down! Say what? Hull down on what? And do I care about all this stuff?

 

This is an important fork in your career, do you care? Do you want to get better? Are you enjoying the game?

 

Well.... I guess I am, I'm gonna read about this stuff, wait, am I a millennial? I am? Pfffffff..... reading is so 20st century, I'm gonna get me some YouTube videos. Ahhhh...... I see, I see..... Mmmmm..... Ok let's try out some of this stuff.

 

[edited]that premium stuff, I'm barely making money with the normal stuff, I'm not using any of that, and I'm doing good, so why should I. You continue playing, this time you're really improving! All the games you've played plus all the new things you're learning really help you out, except.....

 

Except for that [edited]E75 that [edited]in destroys me every time I face him, or that last stand I couldn't decide in favor of my team because I couldn't for the life of me pen that [edited]in thing, what was it again? Tprot8 or something, why the [edited]they choose this [edited]in names no one understands for the tanks? [edited]that, anyway, I have to find a way to gid gud.

 

Tier 8! So awesome! Let's do this!!!!!!!! W.T.F is that tank crawling that can't be penned???? T100111E3???? God damn this tier X tanks are tough as nails! Not that the tier 9 are any better but still! Time to research some more, git gud and all that. Aim for weak spots they say? Sounds easy enough, just have to memorize the weak spots of a gazillion of tanks..... Oh well.... No pain no gain! Right Arnold? I shouldn't really know who Arnold is because I'm a millennial, but it sounds cool, so deal with it.

 

You improve even further, this weak spot thing really works, I'm doing good! Except for that E75! He wouldn't stop moving is tank and he had is belly behind a dead tank! [edited]in coward! I would like to shot him in the face! If only I could! But..... could I.....? With that ammo thing? Last time I used it, it was a complete disaster, I [edited]didn't pen a thing and I lost a ton of money, maybe now with everything I know things are different?

 

So you proceed to try the premium stuff again, and guess what? I [edited]PENNED THE E75 IN THE FACE! HOW ABOUT THAT [edited]!!!!!! I lost a [edited]ton of silver but that felt good! And I was first in my team! So bad it was a loss, if only my team was any good, why aren't they shooting some premium? Anyways, I'm not going back to just normal ammo!

 

But the silver is going away, at an alarming rate, [edited], [edited], [edited]! Now what? Ah! Stupid me! Just sell the tier 7, no harm done! But it only holds your silver spending for so long.... Now what? What can I do? Time to do some more research..... But do I need to research? At the end of each game I see a positive silver income if I have a premium account.

 

TIME TO GET ME SOME PREMIUM ACCOUNT TIME!

 

This long journey shows one of the multiple ways many of us ended up with a premium account in the first place, might be to have enough silver to buy a tier X, to buy cammo, whatever, this is just one story, but we want to see how it ends, so let's continue!

 

DAUMN BOY! Things are really working now! Why the [edited]didn't I get a premium account before? DAT SWEET SWEET SILVER AND XP! I have silver for everything, I'm [edited]rich and [edited]! Gonna buy myself that stars I saw in the pipe, [edited]I mean barrel, of that IS-7 tank, gonna pimp my ride! What? I have to earn them? How much? 65%, 85% and 95% you say? Let me check that! I'm close enough, seems totally doable, let's do this.

 

Pfffffffff..... First one done! Why didn't I have it in the first place? It looks great and people will respect me, let's go for the second one! Damn! I keep getting 84% then I'm back to 79%! [edited]! Maybe I need a better crew, I remember reading about that, just have to play some more games. Done! What did I tell you? I just needed that extra boost! On to the 3rd one!!!!!!

 

Or maybe not.... da [edited]is happening..... 87%, 91%.... Doesn't [edited]move! Help!!!! I need an extra push to get there! What did you say? Extra rations? What? Food? Can that help? It won't hurt to give it a try..... Well..... At least I'm at 93%, but most of the time I'm bleeding silver, now what? What can I possible do to solve this?

 

Grind silver with a premium tank? Ah! Sounds easy enough!

 

TIME TO GET ME A PREMIUM TANK

 

Here already? But you just bought premium time? [edited]OFF MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. So here we are, our hero already has a premium account + premium tank.

 

Chapter 2 - the elephant in the room

 

We don't agree on everything, that's perfectly normal and only human, but we all agree that players of identical skill playing the same tank can and will be differentiated if one of them uses boosts, be it premium ammo, food, other supplies or equipment, or all of it.

 

A better tool will help do a better job.

 

Let's see the type of tools we have to our disposal, we have premium tanks, consumables and equipment. Premium tanks can be bought with real money or can be earned (not in the past but things change). In order to generate interest in them, Wargaming seems to be releasing several premium tanks that outperform their tech tree counterparts, notable examples are:

 

- T-34-88 (have it and love it)
- Tiger 131 (same)
- The Nameless

 

This seems like a no-brainer, you can pay to get the best tank in that tier, the only redeeming thing, at least for now, is that there are no premium tier 9 and 10 for sale.

 

Let's move on for the other stuff, the stuff you can buy with earned ingame silver, here is where we have huge disagreements, but please bear with me a little longer (after all you didn't quit until here). I say, let me repeat this, I say, that a normal f2p player can't possible generate enough silver in order to keep playing at higher tiers while using premium rounds + premium consumables.

 

Even if he has a tier 8 premium tank, who believes he is going to pass several hours just to grind a couple of silver if any? Because don't forget that he is using premium rounds + premium consumables even when using this tank. He is going to be fighting an uphill battle.

 

Even if this is true to some, the percentage of f2p players willing to do this is low, so very low that shouldn't be used as proof, and Wargaming knows this, because this is what triggers people into buying premium time. What most of the f2p players actively choose to do, is to accept that many times they won't be able to do better because they are not using some or all of the available boosts to improve tank stats or performance.

 

Unfortunately some of us choose to ignore and downplay this, some of us choose to deflect all this by just saying "silver can be grinded", safely ignoring the prices of premium stuff and how the silver income is generated, how the World of Tanks economy works. The more competitive you want to be, by getting gud, playing at higher tiers and using all available boosts to increase the stats and performance of your tank, the more a premium account becomes mandatory.

 

And that's the elephant in the room folks, on to the next chapter!

 

Chapter 3 - He Who Must Not Be Named

 

I'm not an expert in f2p games, but it seems the better ones are the ones that only sell cosmetics. But I'm sure lot's of you are way better informed than myself in this subject. But I do know what World of Tanks offers in exchange for real money, first you have to buy gold then you have access to this stuff:

 

- Premium time
- Tanks
- Convert tank xp to free xp
- Boosts
- Etc

 

It also can buy.... Silver, that's right, silver, you know the thing that buys all that stuff that boosts your tank? Supplies, premium supplies, premium ammo, equipment and cammo? Yes, you can get silver that buys all that stuff with gold, and you get gold with money.

 

Silver rich players can be more competitive, real money can get you all the silver you can afford by directly buying it, by using a premium account to increase income, by using a premium tank with silver bonus, or by using all this.

 

So, if I have money I can buy a premium tank and stuff it with boosts, what do I have to grind again? Ah the crew! But fear not, you can now convert the free xp into crew xp! Wait, what does that mean? I can play with my premium tank filled with boosts and use all that tank xp in the crew? Is that it?

 

Yes, that's what you can do, don't forget you can use that silver in any tank! Not just the premium one! On to the next and final chapter!

 

Chapter 4 - The Hateful 8

 

What kind of title is this? Let me explain, 4 threads + 4 chapters = 8, yeah I know, genius.

 

So fellow commanders, without the need to speak about special perks and skills, here you have it. A game that allows money to buy some of the best ingame tanks, allows money to buy the ingame currency needed to buy the boosts used to improve tanks, while making it next to impossible for f2p players to cope with silver spending, is viewed by some as a masked p2w game.

 

Are you surprised?

 

What? Come again? If I'm such a smart [edited]why don't I come up with a solution? How about balance op premium tanks and refund the people that ask for it. Don't let people buy silver with gold and remove the silver earning bonus of all premium tanks plus premium account, all things premium should only boost xp related earnings. It would become more pay 2 progress and less pay 2 progress and win.

 

Or maybe have a new currency introduced, the new currency would NOT be affected by premium benefits and has to be used to buy premium consumables, premium equipment and premium ammo, all else is bought with normal silver. Maybe we can call this new silver "premium silver", I know, I'm that original.

 

Wow! Is that you Alice? I also love Wonderland.

 

I know, one thing remains, people with premium account will unlock the better stuff faster, yeah, I guess I'm not enough of a smart [edited], but at least it would change how the economy works. It might also bankrupt the console division, yeah, there's also that, but hey, you're the ones that asked for a solution, what were you expecting?

 

Edit: it wouldn't be real if it hadn't typos.


Edited by Black RL, 15 July 2017 - 07:06 PM.

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Dr EvilGnome73 #2 Posted 15 July 2017 - 07:43 PM

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Fair play dude. That post was longer than my dissertation and that took me a few days to write. :)

Black RL #3 Posted 15 July 2017 - 07:50 PM

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View Postyoyobambam, on 15 July 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

Fair play dude. That post was longer than my dissertation and that took me a few days to write. :)

 

Honestly wasn't expecting anyone to read it, so thanks! :)

Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Dr EvilGnome73 #4 Posted 15 July 2017 - 07:55 PM

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Basically WoT's works in the same way as most 'free to play' games.

Most players want an advantage and paying gets you those advantages.

It's the basic model for F2p games.

However WoT's also has the advantage of pretty well dominating the market. There is nothing else out there really like it that appeals to players with historical fascination as well as a well designed tank simulator all be it with some flaws.

I don't think there are many other games out there where collectors of tanks spend hundreds or thousands of dollars/pounds on a digital game.

Black RL #5 Posted 15 July 2017 - 08:00 PM

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View Postyoyobambam, on 15 July 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

Basically WoT's works in the same way as most 'free to play' games.

Most players want an advantage and paying gets you those advantages.

It's the basic model for F2p games.

However WoT's also has the advantage of pretty well dominating the market. There is nothing else out there really like it that appeals to players with historical fascination as well as a well designed tank simulator all be it with some flaws.

I don't think there are many other games out there where collectors of tanks spend hundreds or thousands of dollars/pounds on a digital game.

 

I think you're on to something, at least I'm hooked to the game! Just substitute simulator by arcade?


Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Dr EvilGnome73 #6 Posted 15 July 2017 - 08:09 PM

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View PostBlack RL, on 15 July 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

 

I think you're on to something, at least I'm hooked to the game! Just substitute simulator by arcade?

 

Yes true. It's not a simulator.

 

From my perspective I've long had a fascination with tanks albeit not any where near the depth as some on here.

However I've never felt the urge to splurge on premium tanks to collect them but that's just because I am a tight [edited]and can't really justify spending that sort of money on a game. That doesn't mean I don't love the game, I do. It's given me hours of fun......and frustration over the 3 years or so I have been playing it.



SpartanFire71 #7 Posted 15 July 2017 - 08:51 PM

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Uhhhhhh, you are really have a P2W thing going.  The game is designed to get inexperienced to spend real money.  It encourages free xp as the next package or tank must be better, advertising makes the "extra" skills and premium tanks look like you'll have a great advantage.  The advantage is minimal, and can always be null with the glorious RNG program.  The game also encourages players to buy premium time.  Once you gain experience, there's very little to spend real money on.  Silver is easy to grind for all the food, gold rounds, big kits, etc.  In conclusion, I don't really see much of a P2W, but I do see the F2P model that encourages money to be spent.

It's time to drive broken tanks with full premium ammo.  Have a wonderful balanced day courtesy of update 4.6.

 

Also, thanks (for lack of a bannable word) to those who couldn't or could see the implementations would cause the current meta.

 


SpartanFire71 #8 Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:04 PM

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Oh, shoot the hull down E75 in the lil ears (unless that has changed).

It's time to drive broken tanks with full premium ammo.  Have a wonderful balanced day courtesy of update 4.6.

 

Also, thanks (for lack of a bannable word) to those who couldn't or could see the implementations would cause the current meta.

 


Sgt Becket FEAR #9 Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:07 PM

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View PostSpartanFire71, on 15 July 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Oh, shoot the hull down E75 in the lil ears (unless that has changed).

 

Shh...;)

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Need help with the Tiger I? PM me or see my guide: Becket's Tiger Guide | Short novel about Rosa: Rosa: Queen of Hearts

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Turbo_RB20 #10 Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:10 PM

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Please stop. There's only a small crowd that call the game p2w. Mostly because they are noobs or don't understand the game, or understand that veterans have years of experience. You're their leader. Now stop trying to recruit for your p2w cult and either go play the game and have fun, or quit. P2w posts are the cancer of these forums. I'm not looking for an argument, so please don't bother.

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RadiantPup27709 #11 Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:20 PM

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Tiger 131 is literal pay to win.


SpartanFire71 #12 Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:26 PM

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I just looked at the nerf barometer and the 131 has a 56% WR.  While I agree that there are many factors (MM, RNG, experience, etc.), a 56% WR is not game breaking.  They don't have the Nameless stats yet, and while I agree, these tanks are very good tanks and extremely strong in situations, they don't bring a hugh win advantage.  Just for s and giggles, I looked at a top clan's extended vehicles and found the 131 gives a 2% win increase over the Hammer.

It's time to drive broken tanks with full premium ammo.  Have a wonderful balanced day courtesy of update 4.6.

 

Also, thanks (for lack of a bannable word) to those who couldn't or could see the implementations would cause the current meta.

 


VKSheridan #13 Posted 15 July 2017 - 11:31 PM

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Interesting perspective but I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint from my own perspective.

 

Before proceeding, I agree and experienced many if not most of the thought processes you shared.  I remember getting my silver and XP prior to going Premium and questioning my wisdom of playing without Premium.  So much left on the table.  I remember using AP in hopeless situations because I read in the forum only sissies use skill shells.  Yep, I remember grinding through that stock gun, begging to unlock the next package to remove that spitwad shooter.  I can relate to all of those things you recited (except the millennial part) BUT money didn't buy me wins.  Nope, money couldn't even buy me a tie.  Because of that, I respectfully disagree with the notion that the more players spend, the greater the/their wins.

 

My perspective:  WOT is entertainment to kill discretionary time much like watching the movie, "Finding Nemo".  If you have extra cash, you can watch Finding Nemo at the OmniMax in Real 3D.  A little less cash can let you view the traditional version at the OmniMax.  Still short on cash?  You can watch it on the regular screen at matinee price.  Tighter budget?  Rent it on Netflix and watch it at home.  College poor?  You can wait for it to air on network TV.  Money doesn't change the fate of Nemo no more than a golden spoon will keep soup from scorching.  Money does change how the entertainment amuses the player but it can't buy a win amigo....

 

PS - WOT is in the entertainment business.  If buying a paint job, pixel tanks or a pixel garage slot adds to a player's amusement, there's nothing wrong with them selling it but it surely doesn't decrease their losses, it just increases the price tag.... Peace



DrHorrible4Life #14 Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:55 AM

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View PostTurbo_RB20, on 15 July 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

Please stop. There's only a small crowd that call the game p2w. Mostly because they are noobs or don't understand the game, or understand that veterans have years of experience. You're their leader. Now stop trying to recruit for your p2w cult and either go play the game and have fun, or quit. P2w posts are the cancer of these forums. I'm not looking for an argument, so please don't bother.

 

​So you just follow Black RL around because you want that dark chocolate?  How big is your lady part that you treat someone with open hostility and then pretend you don't want to argue when you have literally no other reason to post in his thread?  If you actually didn't want to argue, maybe get off his [edited]?

GetaFix 2 #15 Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:55 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 16 July 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

 

​So you just follow Black RL around because you want that dark chocolate?  How big is your lady part that you treat someone with open hostility and then pretend you don't want to argue when you have literally no other reason to post in his thread?  If you actually didn't want to argue, maybe get off his [edited]?

 

​lol. lady part.... are you talking about the box tank.

Edited by GetaFix 2, 16 July 2017 - 02:55 AM.


Warsteiner 1 #16 Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:59 AM

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Wait a sec....Black RL , didnt i see you on an Ancient Aliens episode ?



Brick S0lid #17 Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:06 AM

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View PostSpartanFire71, on 15 July 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

I just looked at the nerf barometer and the 131 has a 56% WR.  While I agree that there are many factors (MM, RNG, experience, etc.), a 56% WR is not game breaking.  They don't have the Nameless stats yet, and while I agree, these tanks are very good tanks and extremely strong in situations, they don't bring a hugh win advantage.  Just for s and giggles, I looked at a top clan's extended vehicles and found the 131 gives a 2% win increase over the Hammer.

56% win rate is a huge advantage. It's pay2win. Tank provides a huge advantage over its competition that's what it is.

 

As for the the original post this game overall is not a pay to win game, PC established that concept long ago with making most of not all advantageous items in game buy able with silver. I don't care of the op wants to argue that the games economy in regards to silver earning makes premium time a necessity that's irrelevant. Now that being said there are many overpowered premiums in game which fall under the pay2win scheme, I don't believe this is WGCBs intention though I instead believe that they are simply bad at game design and balancing the things they implement. 

 

 


Artillery punishes flankers, not campers.

 

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MrTrollPacMan #18 Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:59 AM

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Tiger 131 and the US sexton 1 are probably p2w, otherwise most premiums are well balanced. Not all, but most.

Turbo_RB20 #19 Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:38 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 15 July 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

 

​So you just follow Black RL around because you want that dark chocolate?  How big is your lady part that you treat someone with open hostility and then pretend you don't want to argue when you have literally no other reason to post in his thread?  If you actually didn't want to argue, maybe get off his [edited]?

So please explain the need for your post? Hypocrite.

 

Sounds like YOUR lady parts were the ones upset. So, you counter my " hostility" with more hostility, LOL. Literal hypocrite. 

 

I'm entitled to an opinion, as is everyone else here because this is a public forum. Don't like it? Leave.


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SpartanFire71 #20 Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

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View PostBrick S0lid, on 15 July 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

56% win rate is a huge advantage. It's pay2win. Tank provides a huge advantage over its competition that's what it is.

 

As for the the original post this game overall is not a pay to win game, PC established that concept long ago with making most of not all advantageous items in game buy able with silver. I don't care of the op wants to argue that the games economy in regards to silver earning makes premium time a necessity that's irrelevant. Now that being said there are many overpowered premiums in game which fall under the pay2win scheme, I don't believe this is WGCBs intention though I instead believe that they are simply bad at game design and balancing the things they implement. 

 

 

 

The tank is very good, it's great even.  The tank is ranked # 2 and 3 at tier on the two consoles.  I'm not seeing how 56% is hugh though.  Just looking at xbox stats of all tanks, 50 tanks have a 55% or higher WR.  Are they all hugh OP P2W tanks?  A bunch of those have to grind beginning packages unlike the 131, so they must really be OP.  There's 48 tanks with 55% or higher on PS4.   

 

I have not disagreed that it's a great tank, it does sit on top of the average damage list at tier.  I just see that the numbers are not as big a deal as some make them.


It's time to drive broken tanks with full premium ammo.  Have a wonderful balanced day courtesy of update 4.6.

 

Also, thanks (for lack of a bannable word) to those who couldn't or could see the implementations would cause the current meta.

 





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