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DrHorrible4Life #1 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:31 AM

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OK, so previously if you were spotted by someone and your gun was pointed the wrong way, you wouldn't know until arty started aiming at you?  Is this right?

 

And now, if you're spotted from behind, you know you're lit but have no idea by what or who is aiming at you?

 

HOW is that bad?  I understand that it makes the game harder to exploit, that you have to rely more on what you see and what you know.  How is THAT bad?  

 

EDIT:  So update, I received a PM from PortableNuke thoroughly explaining to me what I got wrong about this.  In two days of discussion with many players on this subject, and the entire time I was ABSOLUTELY WRONG.  I failed to grasp the idea that if a scout spots you without also pointing the gun at you, SS is triggered but not !targeted.

 

I was basing the entirety of my argument on my fundamental misunderstanding on the mechanic that is supposed to be easier than the old mechanic which I also didn't fully understand until PortableNuke politely and thoroughly explained it.  

 

So to Nuke, thanks for the free education on the mechanics of the game and the lesson in humility I obviously badly needed.

 

To everyone else, sorry I wasted your time.  I'll be running my stock Tiger P on east when the servers come back if anyone is looking to punish my R2D2.

 

 


Edited by DrHorrible4Life, 08 December 2017 - 09:46 PM.


Corporal Derpy #2 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:33 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

I understand that it makes the game harder to exploit

 

Wut.


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Rarefication #3 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:35 AM

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We will have to adapt regardless.

DrHorrible4Life #4 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:37 AM

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View PostCorporal Derpy, on 07 December 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

 

Wut.

 

​Exploiting as in 'exploiting an advantage' like good teams do.  Not cheating.  Does that clarify the unasked portion of your question?  Or was it going to be "Wut is ur fayvrit color?"  Cuz it's green.

MaxChaos24 #5 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:39 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 06 December 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

OK, so previously if you were spotted by someone and your gun was pointed the wrong way, you wouldn't know until arty started aiming at you?  Is this right?

  • This is not correct. You would have to have your gun pointed at artillery while artillery is aiming at you while your spotted. Very situational moments where you would know that Arty is the only possible person looking at you. In normal situations you wouldn't have a clue what's setting it off.

 

And now, if you're spotted from behind, you know you're lit but have no idea by what or who is aiming at you?

  • Correct. 

HOW is that bad?  I understand that it makes the game harder to exploit, that you have to rely more on what you see and what you know.  How is THAT bad?  

  • It's not. Provides more information to players than it did before and helps newer players alike to be better at the game.

 

 

Answered ^



DrHorrible4Life #6 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:42 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 07 December 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

Answered ^

 

​Sweet, thanks for the clarification on point 1 and the speedy reply.

TocFanKe4 #7 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:46 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

Answered ^

 

I completely and utterly disagree. Using detected combined with 6th sense was a powerful skill to learn. It allowed you to know the general direction that someone was looking at you. Now you have less directional information. 6th sense already gave you the omnidirectional notice someone saw you. 

 

This is a buff to Arty now, plain and simple. You can be spotted, not know it, and get nuked . It's going to be bad for the new players it purports to help, because they'll be used to it working for every other tank aiming at them, but not Arty. They'll be lulled into a false sense of complacency, and then get smacked.

 

Terrible change is terrible. 


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USSWISCONSIN94 #8 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:47 AM

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Crutch? Lol no.

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DrHorrible4Life #9 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:04 AM

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We've been asking for changes to the stale meta for AGES.  Easiums and TDs.  Now we're talking about arty and SCOUTS.  Now we're talking about places on maps you should not go based on the team composition instead of a good hulldown spot you always go to in you t54.  Now we're talking about assuming you're vulnerable if you're spotted, and ALWAYS knowing when you're spotted.

 

It isn't a buff to arty.  It is balanced by the fact that no other class of tanks actively suffer from an influx of scout drivers.   Arty does, because inexperienced light tank drivers like to yolo balls deep into the enemies.  

 

It is just a nerf to players who heavily relied on that mechanic.  It is also a buff to new players, inexperienced or uninformed existing and returning players by always telling them when they're spotted. 

 

I'm ok with the fact that alot of you feel strongly the other way.  Feel free to dispute any part of what I posted.  In the end, I still win because I really like this change.


Edited by DrHorrible4Life, 07 December 2017 - 01:05 AM.


TheDeadTANKer #10 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:08 AM

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So WG buffed arty for no reasone.  :arta: :facepalm:

Hex Arcana #11 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:16 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 07 December 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

 

I completely and utterly disagree. Using detected combined with 6th sense was a powerful skill to learn. It allowed you to know the general direction that someone was looking at you. Now you have less directional information. 6th sense already gave you the omnidirectional notice someone saw you. 

 

This is a buff to Arty now, plain and simple. You can be spotted, not know it, and get nuked . It's going to be bad for the new players it purports to help, because they'll be used to it working for every other tank aiming at them, but not Arty. They'll be lulled into a false sense of complacency, and then get smacked.

 

Terrible change is terrible. 

 

 

^ This. 



HEAT--54 #12 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:21 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

  • It's not. Provides more information to players than it did before and helps newer players alike to be better at the game.

Answered ^

 

Helping new players and providing more information?  

 

Yet you removed the ability for new players to be able to figure out if an indirect fire cannon was about to remove half or more of thier health from across the map. 

 

Makes sense!



TocFanKe4 #13 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:26 AM

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Maybe instead of dumbing the game down and giving the new players less information easier to use, they could explain things better on how things worked?

And if they really cared about new players learning, why do they flood low tiers with completely unbalanced premium tanks? Why is the Sexton 1 back on sale yet again? It's a tank that's so broken that PC players I talked to didn't believe me that it's in the game.  

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HEAT--54 #14 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:34 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 06 December 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Maybe instead of dumbing the game down and giving the new players less information easier to use, they could explain things better on how things worked?

And if they really cared about new players learning, why do they flood low tiers with completely unbalanced premium tanks? Why is the Sexton 1 back on sale yet again? It's a tank that's so broken that PC players I talked to didn't believe me that it's in the game.

 

They don’t care. Thats the joke.  

 

Nah the OP premiums aren’t the problem for new players. Neither is arty, new players love getting clicked.  

 

It’s the detected! notice not going off when they aren’t looking at other tanks!  Yeah, that’s it. Lol.



Norrin-Radd_SS01 #15 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:34 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

OK, so previously if you were spotted by someone and your gun was pointed the wrong way, you wouldn't know until arty started aiming at you?  Is this right?

  • This is not correct. You would have to have your gun pointed at artillery while artillery is aiming at you while your spotted. Very situational moments where you would know that Arty is the only possible person looking at you. In normal situations you wouldn't have a clue what's setting it off.

 

And now, if you're spotted from behind, you know you're lit but have no idea by what or who is aiming at you?

  • Correct. 

HOW is that bad?  I understand that it makes the game harder to exploit, that you have to rely more on what you see and what you know.  How is THAT bad?  

  • It's not. Provides more information to players than it did before and helps newer players alike to be better at the game.

 

 

 

View PostMaxChaos24, on 07 December 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

Answered ^

 

Answered badly

  1. True you didn't always know if arty was targeting you, but now you never know.
  2. We lose the directional effect of detection, yes if you don't have 6th that's a bonus. So it helps beginners and bad players. Maybe putting better tutorials in or changing detection so we knew when we were targeted and knew the direction regardless of our turret position, now that would help everyone.
  3. How does if help everyone? We are losing direction knowledge and if arty is aiming at us and is only providing more info to those without 6th.

Basically this is just a poorly disguised arty buff. Today I have been hit twice by arty that previously I MIGHT have avoided.



DerailedWingnut #16 Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:52 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

Answered ^

 

How are you supposed to play "arty safe" when artillery now has the advantage of always being able to target you without your knowledge? You'll never know when it's safe to move out from behind cover because there may be a clicker watching you and waiting, then the second you pull out, bam, instant death. This is a terrible change that only punishes skilled players who knew how the detection system worked. I guess you guys want to force players to sit stationary behind hard cover and not move, as it's the only way to prevent getting insta-gibbed for all my health or several modules and crew members.

 

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DrHorrible4Life #17 Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:03 AM

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View PostDerailedWingnut, on 07 December 2017 - 01:52 AM, said:

 

How are you supposed to play "arty safe" when artillery now has the advantage of always being able to target you without your knowledge? You'll never know when it's safe to move out from behind cover because there may be a clicker watching you and waiting, then the second you pull out, bam, instant death. This is a terrible change that only punishes skilled players who knew how the detection system worked. I guess you guys want to force players to sit stationary behind hard cover and not move, as it's the only way to prevent getting insta-gibbed for all my health or several modules and crew members.

 

​Look at the sky every now and then?  Communicate with your team to call out arty fire and direction? React to the !targeted prompt which now ALWAYS tells you when you're spotted?

 

OMFG How can we ever be safe again??????

 



DerailedWingnut #18 Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:16 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 06 December 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

 

​Look at the sky every now and then? 

Look at the sky for what? The shell that takes 2 seconds to reach me and I have no time to react to, especially in slow heavies and TDs?

 

Communicate with your team to call out arty fire and direction?

Communication with randoms? :teethhappy: You act like the playerbase in this game isn't on Facebook. Teamwork with randoms has never been, and never will be, a factor in this game. I can't rely on over half the players in this game to drive straight let alone communicate.

 

React to the !targeted prompt which now ALWAYS tells you when you're spotted?

Targeted does not alert you to the one hit kill that's going to fall from the sky and obliterate your vehicle. It does not tell you when an artillery in orbital view is watching you, that's why people are mad. Also, SS already did this, Detected allowed you to learn the general direction and plan accordingly. Now "targeted" is basically SS, minus artillery.

 

OMFG How can we ever be safe again??????

We can be safe, by sitting still behind hard cover, or never moving forward and not getting detected. Simple really.


Give me a legitimate argument for why this change is good and I'll debate you on that. So far all you've done is say "I like it so I win" and belittle people with your elitist attitude. Several people have given good reasoning behind why this change is bad and your only responses so far have been "thanks for the bump" and insults.


 

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Sadriel Fett #19 Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:17 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 06 December 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Maybe instead of dumbing the game down and giving the new players less information easier to use, they could explain things better on how things worked?

And if they really cared about new players learning, why do they flood low tiers with completely unbalanced premium tanks? Why is the Sexton 1 back on sale yet again? It's a tank that's so broken that PC players I talked to didn't believe me that it's in the game.

 

I agree with you, there.  It definitely feels like it dumbed down the game a little.  I can see why newer player will like it, though.  Before, the "Detected" mechanics were more useful for veteran players that knew how to use it to their advantage, especially when Arty was still at play in a match.  


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MaxChaos24 #20 Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:18 AM

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View PostHEAT--54, on 06 December 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

 

Helping new players and providing more information?  

 

Yet you removed the ability for new players to be able to figure out if an indirect fire cannon was about to remove half or more of thier health from across the map. 

 

Makes sense!

 

New (and old)  players thought that detected was telling them when they were detected. If you've been around the forums awhile, you probably notice one of the most common things is, "I was shot but I wasn't even detected". The majority of players had no idea what it was alerting them to. I personally answered hundreds of threads about it and having to explain how it worked. 

 

Using it to know when artillery was aiming at you is a very situational thing and not something a new player would know how to do. They've lost nothing but gain a useful tool to give them better situational awareness and hopefully makes for a better teammate in battle. :great:






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