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Corporal Derpy #141 Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:00 PM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

You're a toolbag.  You're talking with THIS level of scorn to a guy with less than 5k battles and who has been playing for 4 months.  And he's here asking sincerely for help, and you treat him like he's got something hanging out of his nose.  You are the guy in position to provide that help.  Instead you post THIS.  Toolbag.

 

Please quote the post I responded to and provide in bold the part where he genuinely asked me for help.

And not from the post right above mine as this was not responding to me so it was not him asking me for help.

 

If he wishes to come up and ask me for help I will provide it. But I'm not going to be providing help to you at any point, even if you were to ask for it as I'm not a fan of talking to brick walls.


Edited by Corporal Derpy, 07 December 2017 - 06:00 PM.

Garage : 

'Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of morons who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.'

'The term "casual gamer" is actually not accurate enough anymore to describe what the larger market is like. They want the illusion of accomplishment, but not the effort associated with it. The players aren't really doing anything, something else is doing it for them, and the player takes the credit for it.


LifeTilts #142 Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:19 PM

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View PostCorporal Derpy, on 07 December 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

I played 5 games in Arty and averaged 836 damage.Odd that the player who 'doesn't understand the mechanics' of the class outperforms the so called professional is it.

 

Which would you prefer, the idea that the point you are trying to get is moot because of small sample size or that there is something wrong with the class when someone who apparently doesn't understand it outperforms someone who does significantly.

 

Before looking I knew you had played the sexton I. It does not suffer from the slow aim time as others. Not to mention you get several attempts at those tiers given the quick reload. 

 

A far bigger negative contributor than the !targeted is the increased yoloing you'll see at tiers V+. Tier X is going to be a major crapfest for anyone trying to play artillery. Post tier VIII lights made it bad now its going to be much harderfor arty than before and the benefits of tanks not being able to tell they're being targeted is miniscule compared to all the yoloing arty players will have to endure.

 

Anyways I forgive your ignorance.

 


 

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DrHorrible4Life #143 Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:20 PM

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View PostCorporal Derpy, on 07 December 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

Please quote the post I responded to and provide in bold the part where he genuinely asked me for help.

And not from the post right above mine as this was not responding to me so it was not him asking me for help.

 

If he wishes to come up and ask me for help I will provide it. But I'm not going to be providing help to you at any point, even if you were to ask for it as I'm not a fan of talking to brick walls.

 

​My sincerest apology.  I skipped to the last page and misunderstood what I was reading.  Post edited to remove the personal insults, left the rest so your reply has context.  Again, I am very sorry to have misrepresented and insulted you.

 

I also still say arty didn't rule the world last night, and isn't burning the place down today, and am more than happy to continue that dialogue with less hostility on my part.



test777777 #144 Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:34 AM

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View PostCorporal Derpy, on 08 December 2017 - 01:31 AM, said:

From the sound of things, I don't want you on my team.

As all you'll do is increase my workload while never seeking to improve and actually y'know do the HP of your tank in damage at least.

Have no fear, it's highly unlikely, don't think it's happened yet. I somewhat think of you as someone who carries the team regularly and my damage output as low is it is may well take a dive as a result if you were driving the win for a team that I was on.  Some games in my Tog, I find myself chasing the battle til the end and find it hard to get the enemy in my sights let alone dish out damage. I literally don't know how to get in to the battle faster. The next game, my team is wiped out and I find myself isolated devastated and overun by superior opposition. I have no answers to address those issues - yes I accept it's my fault, just don't have the answers.  It's not all like that. I try and play to my strengths and tanks strengths, sometimes it pays off, more often than not it doesn't but i'm not going to let that ruin the bits that I do enjoy.

 

 I'm impressed by how you play the game but am disappointed by your feeling toward players with numbers like mine. Sure it's a "fault" of mine being average and it may even be thought of as someone who isn't trying to improve. I prefer, like you to be matched with people of similar skill level, so you being on my team wouldn't exactly be doing me any favours either. You're not there to babysit players like me, you're there to get big numbers for yourself and win the game.  

Block Quote

I see this as nothing more than an excuse.

Most players will be bottom tier the same amount as you, they do not need to be top tier to do a few shots of damage to get their HP in damage done.

 I think you mean you see it as an unacceptable excuse. That's OK, you're entitled to. I find that often when I have good relative damage output games, I run out of damage to do or my team is wiped out quickly and I don't have the skills necessary to carry and when the damage is there to do, I tend to die too early and struggle to dish out the damage.  

I accept that there are lots of things that i'm poor at and fail at in this game. I accept that I struggle to contribute all of the time to a level of your satisfaction. I accept that there are lots of factors that I tend to rely on for clocking up numbers outside of my own skill.  I accept that my highest damage I've ever done in a game is only 3659 in a Tier VII tech tree tank  and  less than 1% of games played have I been top damage dealer having taken 20% of more than the enemy health pool and I've never knocked out more than 6 tanks in any battle and that these numbers, while aren't super poor aren't consistent enough to allow me to break even. Heck my average results are becoming worse over time but i'm not sitting here analysing the numbers and wallowing in the idea that I suck because of a balance of damage metric.   

 

As much as I respect your ability at getting results in this game and I've been impressed by many of your games, thanks for publishing them, i'm under no illusion that i'm going to ever be more than that guy who, if people like you had a choice, they wouldn't pick me on their team. I even accept that your reason may not be so much that i'm not good but you don't see me as attempting to heed advice from those who are better or attempting to improve my game. I don't agree with the assessment but I probably wouldn't want that either.

I refuse to accept that as a reason for me to not play. My priority is to enjoy myself as best that I can and I'm pretty sure others have appreciated me being in the game on many an occasion.  I enjoy the experience and the challenge, hope the RNG gods are on my side but not too upset if they aren't, I help and contribute as best that I am able to. 

 



test777777 #145 Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:26 AM

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View PostMMCorreia, on 08 December 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

If you can record a series of straight games, like 6 or 8 games, not just the best, just a normal play session, then I'm sure that we'll be able to help and give out some pointers. That is a given by the way, I've never seen a topic where a player asked for help that didn't have a dozen of responses and tips, the only topics that went bad was when said players started blaming everything but themselves for not being better. I did exactly the same thing, I asked for help to get better 5000 games ago and had a lot of positive replies in this forum, that helped me improve, so please use it, it is a great tool full of experienced players!

I'll see what I can do. I normally only do a minute or so since it takes so darn long to get the things uploaded.

 

MMCorreia, on 08 December 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

Regarding your issues, it would be difficult to know where to start without seeing you play, but if your playing heavies and you getting isolated and outgunned, then there must be an issue to what part of the map you're playing your heavies in, how you are using said heavies or if you're just overextending beyond team support (yollowing). Most maps have obvious spots where heavies will fight to control, if you're in a heavie and go to said hot-zone, then it's improbable that there aren't other greens with you. Are you playing those spots?  are you playing with the required patience, hiding you weakspots, side-scrapping or wiggling, baiting shots?  or do you go in guns blazing and hope for the best?

 There's lots of reasons. I sometimes struggle to not be hindered by other tanks in a hot spot. I find my presence there ineffective unless I can bully my way through the reds, sometimes that's my contribution. Even if I arrive first and set myself, someone comes and blocks my canon.

Sometimes, I just don't have sufficient spotting to note that I've wandered into an ambush before it's too late. It's not that I yolo so much, it's that I don't know where the reds are and i'm trying to work my way around.  It's mostly that reason which has me a little back from the front line. I'm unsure where I can be of most use. While i'm sure it's not true, most of my tanks seem to have armour like butter, I've tried angling them but haven't had much success or it doesn't seem like it. The Gory seems to be the only one which consistently bounces despite it's vulnerable R2D2 nodes. I also don't know how o tell if i'm behind cover or not. Sometimes I think I am but am exposed.

Wiggling and baiting shots. Not terribly proficient at either so I tend not to. Although, in regard to baiting, I don't think it's how you meant it but with faster tanks, I don't mind leading the enemy toward my team mates. 

 

 

MMCorreia, on 08 December 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

Have you taken the time to check youtubers?  I know it's sometimes a chore, since you spend time seeing others play instead of actually playing, but a lot of nights I don't have the necessary mental fortitude to play (eg I'm tired as hell), I will get some good youtuber in my laptop/tablet and check how he plays certain maps and classes, see what he does and compare it with how I play and listen to his tips. You have some great console youtubers, like Sinz, swindle, Turkey tank and Steeltitan. On PC you have some good youtubers, like quickybaby and Lemming Rush. See how they play and compare to how you play, if you have a critical mind and want to get better, you will understand what you're doing wrong.

 Sure - I watch some folks games, some on here two, the bearded guys. . I'll check out the names you suggest, thanks for them.  I struggle to translate, much of what I see in to the games that I play or find relevant information relating to tanks that I play. Sometimes I have the theoretical knowledge but fail to execute or wonder whether i'm doing it wrong or the situation just isn't right. 

 

MMCorreia, on 08 December 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

Just remember that the only person that can make you get better is you. If you are not critical of your gameplay and think that you're always playing the right way, then you'll never improve.

 I  agree, to a point. I think there's an element of aptitude required too.  I used to get frustrated by the lack of achievement but it didn't seem to matter, what I did, some games i'd dominate, most i'd do below average and some i'd just get smashed.

 



test777777 #146 Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:38 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 08 December 2017 - 01:52 AM, said:

.  You're talking with THIS level of scorn to a guy with less than 5k battles and who has been playing for 4 months.  And he's here asking sincerely for help, and you treat him like he's got something hanging out of his nose.  You are the guy in position to provide that help.  Instead you post THIS.  .  

 

 

Edited to remove unnecessary name calling.  Left the rest intact for the context of MY mistake, as it was later quoted.  AGAIN, this post by me if wrong, stupid, and factually incorrect.  Apologies to Derpy.  

We don't tend to see this much around here, and it's a fantastic character trait in my opinion, when despite your good intention, you realise you were contextually mistaken and owned up to it.

Derpey's attitude toward me is OK, he's calling it as he sees it and while he and I are polar opposites statistically, what the stats don't show is how successful we have been at staying out of each others way on the battlefield :).

In Derpey's case, it's skill, in my case - well circumstance but it's results that count :)



TheDeadTANKer #147 Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:33 AM

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test777777  You can platoon with me if you want,just add me as a friend on Xbox.  We can run some games together.  I'm not the best player in the game but you might pick up some things that newer players often struggle with.  

RadiantPup27709 #148 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:01 AM

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Ahh... So much salt in the spilled milk.

Lots of good reads.



xXlAmbitionzlXx #149 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:43 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 07 December 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

Maybe instead of dumbing the game down and giving the new players less information easier to use, they could explain things better on how things worked?

And if they really cared about new players learning, why do they flood low tiers with completely unbalanced premium tanks? Why is the Sexton 1 back on sale yet again? It's a tank that's so broken that PC players I talked to didn't believe me that it's in the game.

 

destroyed. 

xXlAmbitionzlXx #150 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:46 AM

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View PostCorporal Derpy, on 07 December 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

 

I played 5 games in Arty and averaged 836 damage.

Odd that the player who 'doesn't understand the mechanics' of the class outperforms the so called professional is it.

 

Which would you prefer, the idea that the point you are trying to get is moot because of small sample size or that there is something wrong with the class when someone who apparently doesn't understand it outperforms someone who does significantly.

 

 

From the sound of things, I don't want you on my team.

As all you'll do is increase my workload while never seeking to improve and actually y'know do the HP of your tank in damage at least.

 

 

I see this as nothing more than an excuse.

Most players will be bottom tier the same amount as you, they do not need to be top tier to do a few shots of damage to get their HP in damage done.

 

I'm not saying to turn unicum overnight but this is a team-based MP game so the least you could do is not be a detriment to the other 14 players stuck with you.

 

OOoohhh Derpy turned Elitist.. I like <3 :trollface:

xxFUZZYDUNLOPx #151 Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 07 December 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

 

New (and old)  players thought that detected was telling them when they were detected. If you've been around the forums awhile, you probably notice one of the most common things is, "I was shot but I wasn't even detected". The majority of players had no idea what it was alerting them to. I personally answered hundreds of threads about it and having to explain how it worked. 

 

Using it to know when artillery was aiming at you is a very situational thing and not something a new player would know how to do. They've lost nothing but gain a useful tool to give them better situational awareness and hopefully makes for a better teammate in battle. :great:

 

​Hi Max ive been on the forums for years and dont recall the hundreds of threads regarding this mechanic at all, but I could easily have forgotten them or perhaps the majority of these were before I joined.

 

I do recall many threads with many different players complaining about high tier artillery and tier ten tank destroyers. For years people have complained about these 2 classes. More recently people have also complained about map removal/rotation. These have formed a large percentage of threads while I have been on this forum. I dont remember you replying to any of them, but im probably mistaken and im sure you can correct me on this matter.

 

Have lots of arty players privately complained about the detected mechanic? Do players who grind artillery, deathstar, waffle and e3 lines spend way above average on premium time and converting xp? Given that artillery as a class earns less silver and xp, and that the deathstar and e3 grinds look horrific I can believe it. Theres an Adam Smith quote about certain peoples interests being most peculiarly attended to.

 

Max this an excellent game but so many of the decisions that are being made are very peculiar. Please come on the forum more often and maybe even tell us some of the upcoming changes to the game so we can at least give some feedback before you implement them.

 

Personally I was never an arty hater. Sure I raged the once or twice a month I got one shotted but more often than not they were helping me push a flank, damage the tank trying to kill me. I used the detected mechanic to avoid being hit by arty. Usually if I got killed by arty it was either my fault or the arty player got lucky or led the target really well which does take some skill.

 

This will no longer be the case apologies for long post



hmsmystic #152 Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:20 PM

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View PostMMCorreia, on 07 December 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

 

Maybe it's because you play further back, which might explain your "low spotted tanks per game %". You have to understand that unlike what most players seem to think, artillery doesn't punish base campers or back campers. They punish aggressive players and tanks that lead pushes.

 

If you play in the front-lines or go to aggressive spotting positions, you will definitely be devastated by artillery like many here are.

 

This is really what fuels my dislike of arty (unless it's green arty!)

And this is a problem for good, aggressive players!   Mediocre aggressive players like me get their teeth knocked in by arty with any mistake



DrHorrible4Life #153 Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:48 PM

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Original Post UPDATED to include an apology, a correction, a shout out, and me eating large amounts of excrement.

KaiserVonKrieg #154 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:31 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 06 December 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

 

I completely and utterly disagree. Using detected combined with 6th sense was a powerful skill to learn. It allowed you to know the general direction that someone was looking at you. Now you have less directional information. 6th sense already gave you the omnidirectional notice someone saw you. 

 

This is a buff to Arty now, plain and simple. You can be spotted, not know it, and get nuked . It's going to be bad for the new players it purports to help, because they'll be used to it working for every other tank aiming at them, but not Arty. They'll be lulled into a false sense of complacency, and then get smacked.

 

Terrible change is terrible. 

 

Yep.

I think if there's one thing WGA is consistent at is being [edited]



TheDeadTANKer #155 Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:18 AM

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View PostKaiserVonKrieg, on 08 December 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

Yep.

I think if there's one thing WGA is consistent at is being [edited]

 

I give them credit for knowing what they're good at and sticking with it :trollface:

Edited by TheDeadTANKer, 09 December 2017 - 08:35 AM.


Pit Friend #156 Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:26 PM

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View PostLIBARYKEEPER483, on 07 December 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

There's a thing called "Tracers" 

 

I understand what he means. Before for example if a red tank was far back behind your tank and spotting it while you were looking forwards and your crew didn’t have Sixth Sense you would have no warning that you were being spotted because you weren’t looking at the tank spotting you. So then if the green tank then got shot often the player would complain they were getting shot by an “invisible tank” or spotting was broken because they had no Detected warning. 

 

With the new system even if your crew doesn’t have Sixth Sense you’ll get a warning if something besides artillery is looking at you. And even with Sixth Sense you’ll also get a warning that something is actually aiming at you other than just spotting you. So this can definitely help new players as it’s a bit more intuitive as it no longer requires you to also be looking at the tank spotting you. 

 

But it once again it’s a mechanic added to the game without any explaination in game to let players not on the forums or Facebook know about the changes. Not even a waiting screen like Siege Mode finally got. So those players will just have to find out by trial and error, which is a bad decision. 

 

And while I do like that the new system warns you when something is actually looking at you from any direction I do miss the directionality of it allowing you to get an idea of where you’re being spotted from. And exempting artillery from this is a terrible idea. People were already frustrated getting shot at by them with little warning but now we don’t even get that. 


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PortableNuke #157 Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:48 PM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

OK, so previously if you were spotted by someone and your gun was pointed the wrong way, you wouldn't know until arty started aiming at you?  Is this right?

 

And now, if you're spotted from behind, you know you're lit but have no idea by what or who is aiming at you?

 

HOW is that bad?  I understand that it makes the game harder to exploit, that you have to rely more on what you see and what you know.  How is THAT bad?  

 

EDIT:  So update, I received a PM from PortableNuke thoroughly explaining to me what I got wrong about this.  In two days of discussion with many players on this subject, and the entire time I was ABSOLUTELY WRONG.  I failed to grasp the idea that if a scout spots you without also pointing the gun at you, SS is triggered but not !targeted.

 

I was basing the entirety of my argument on my fundamental misunderstanding on the mechanic that is supposed to be easier than the old mechanic which I also didn't fully understand until PortableNuke politely and thoroughly explained it.  

 

So to Nuke, thanks for the free education on the mechanics of the game and the lesson in humility I obviously badly needed.

 

To everyone else, sorry I wasted your time.  I'll be running my stock Tiger P on east when the servers come back if anyone is looking to punish my R2D2.

 

 

 

Haha! No probs :great:

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VKSheridan #158 Posted 11 December 2017 - 12:54 AM

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I’ve read (almost) every post and am a bit lost in the anguish over this.

 

If I understand this right, “Targeted” means you’re someone’s target except your commander no longer has omnipotent physic power to know those targeting him might also be an artillery unit way over the hill.  Makes sense.

 

If the crews sixth sense has gone off indicating a scout has called in their position but they’re comfy in their crater, they might unexpectedly go boom from an arty shell without “Targeted” going off. Still makes sense.

 

Judging by the four million arty rage threads, it seems to me nobody was able to determine if they were detected by a tank or arty before.  At least today, if you get “Targeted”, you know you’re being aimed at by a tank, period.  And if a tank is targeting you, arty might be as well.  Being targeted by more than a tank has been that way since forever.

 

What am I missing?  People who got “Detected” after being spotted but not getting shot at were 100% sure it was arty aiming in on them and not a tank?  Did they bolt from their crater if a passive scout swung his gun past them? 

 

Im finding that to believe since there’s so many arty hate threads that fall miserably short in suggesting the masses knew who was targeting them.....

 

Someone explain this to me.  Type slow because I read slow.........



HEAT--54 #159 Posted 11 December 2017 - 02:31 AM

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Nah your commander has replaced that power with mutant eyeballs attached to four sides of his head now. These eyeballs can see all threats except they cannot pick up the particluar potato wavelength aty chassis reflects, rendering arty invisible to them.

If you put some terrain in between you and the enemy your targeted wont go off but youll still get slapped for 1k hp by arty that was -actually- targeting you.

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 06 December 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

 

I completely and utterly disagree. Using detected combined with 6th sense was a powerful skill to learn. It allowed you to know the general direction that someone was looking at you. Now you have less directional information. 6th sense already gave you the omnidirectional notice someone saw you. 

 

This is a buff to Arty now, plain and simple. You can be spotted, not know it, and get nuked . It's going to be bad for the new players it purports to help, because they'll be used to it working for every other tank aiming at them, but not Arty. They'll be lulled into a false sense of complacency, and then get smacked.

 

Terrible change is terrible. 

^^ 100% Agreed. Summed up better than I could!



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