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test777777 #41 Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:59 AM

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View PostDerailedWingnut, on 07 December 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

The problem with that is that the new players lost nothing, while the skilled players lost a useful tool.

I'm of the new players are increasingly becoming more disadvantaged relative to skilled players which is hurting their retention fraternity.

I personally haven't been noticeably bothered by Arty but if the mechanic is designed to assist new players with situational awareness, then perhaps, if some mechanics can be isolated to earlier tiers?

New arty players and experience arty players gain a lot and, if I understand the changes correctly, this is the bigger issue. Tankers, may no longer run for cover with arty targeting them, instead assume it's another tank and that gives the Arty more aim time. That's probably the bigger problem but again i'm inexperienced so don't notice any loss.

 

 



DrHorrible4Life #42 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:00 AM

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View PostHEAT--54, on 07 December 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

 

Or, you could have just made a good concise explanation on one of the loading screens on what Detected! is.  You could even note the difference between spotted and sixth sense with a tip on how to use Detected! to foil arty.  

 

You make enough posts explaining mechanics on here, I am confident you could have done that screen yourself.

 

​But that wouldn't ALSO give a bone to new players.  

New players getting something to help new player retention has been asked for in numerous threads going back years.  WG finds a way to implement a change to a system which minimally effects only the top tier of players while simultaneously giving new players a much easier to understand system, but it's the end of days.  



Norrin-Radd_SS01 #43 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:04 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 07 December 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

 

Players did not know it was telling them that. It was covered in the first paragraph. Players thought it told them when they were detected, not being targeted, while spotted, while your gun is pointed in the direction of the enemy player that is looking at you. 

 

It was a confusing mechanic that the majority of players did not understand and was replaced with a more useful system that benefits all players equally. This is a good thing to improve the game for all players. :great:

 

So why remove arty from the system? If it's supposed to be an improvement it should be an improvement for all. This is only an improvement for those who didn't understand how it worked before, but a huge step backwards for more experienced players.

Arty doesn't play the same game as us so you think giving them yet another advantage doesn't matter.



DrHorrible4Life #44 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:13 AM

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View PostMr Crowley ll, on 07 December 2017 - 02:40 AM, said:

 

targeted without being detected, followed by an arty round is all it takes to know what is happening.   Now with replay capability folks can figure it out faster. 

 

​What does that have to do with NEW players.  I'm saying NEW players didn't know that !detected could mean artillery was aiming at them.  I am not at all new, and I always thought that detected, followed by an arty round meant that I was spotted, so naturally arty fired.  I'm not alone among first wave beta testers in that mistaken line of thought. 

 

That's how it functions now.  IF you are seen, you are !targeted.  IF you are seen, a well aimed artillery shot may be headed you way sometime between flight time and aim+flight time, so get cover.



TheDeadTANKer #45 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:14 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

 

Players did not know it was telling them that. It was covered in the first paragraph. Players thought it told them when they were detected, not being targeted, while spotted, while your gun is pointed in the direction of the enemy player that is looking at you. 

 

It was a confusing mechanic that the majority of players did not understand and was replaced with a more useful system that benefits all players equally. This is a good thing to improve the game for all players. :great:

 

 

 

So instead of just changing the name from detected to targeted and explaing how the mechanic works.....

WG decides to eliminate a feature of detected/targeted, which just so happens to buff arty.   Do have that right?

 



DrHorrible4Life #46 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:15 AM

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View PostNorrin-Radd_SS01, on 07 December 2017 - 03:04 AM, said:

 

So why remove arty from the system? If it's supposed to be an improvement it should be an improvement for all. This is only an improvement for those who didn't understand how it worked before, but a huge step backwards for more experienced players.

Arty doesn't play the same game as us so you think giving them yet another advantage doesn't matter.

 

You STILL know if arty is aiming at you, you just DO NOT know what kind of tank it is.

DrHorrible4Life #47 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:16 AM

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View PostTheDeadTANKer, on 07 December 2017 - 03:14 AM, said:

 

 

 

So instead of just changing the name from detected to targeted and explaing how the mechanic works.....

WG decides to eliminate a feature of detected/targeted, which just so happens to buff arty.   Do have that right?

 

 

​Not a buff to arty, a nerf to complacence.

BigHundy #48 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:20 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 07 December 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

 

I completely and utterly disagree. Using detected combined with 6th sense was a powerful skill to learn. It allowed you to know the general direction that someone was looking at you. Now you have less directional information. 6th sense already gave you the omnidirectional notice someone saw you. 

 

This is a buff to Arty now, plain and simple. You can be spotted, not know it, and get nuked . It's going to be bad for the new players it purports to help, because they'll be used to it working for every other tank aiming at them, but not Arty. They'll be lulled into a false sense of complacency, and then get smacked.

 

Terrible change is terrible. 

Agreed.

 

Its official. WarGaming are ^*&$$#@%%^&**.

 

I see myself playing less and less now. Not that anyone will care.


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Norrin-Radd_SS01 #49 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:21 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

 

You STILL know if arty is aiming at you, you just DO NOT know what kind of tank it is.

 

Yes you know that arty is aiming for you because they hit you, but the "targeted" alert is not triggered by arty. Did you start a thread without realising what they had done?

HEAT--54 #50 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:21 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 06 December 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

​But that wouldn't ALSO give a bone to new players.  

New players getting something to help new player retention has been asked for in numerous threads going back years.  WG finds a way to implement a change to a system which minimally effects only the top tier of players while simultaneously giving new players a much easier to understand system, but it's the end of days.  

 

Maybe, but I would put the expansion of the detected mechanic from turret FoV to 360 pretty far behind other things.  OP premiums, Sealclubbers, arty, and the mechanics in general I think are what drives most away.  

 

Also,  if it is so new player friendly, why remove arty from detected?  That really does not make sense to me how it can be argued its new player friendly yet removes this feature.



Saerbhreathach #51 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:23 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

 

New (and old)  players thought that detected was telling them when they were detected. If you've been around the forums awhile, you probably notice one of the most common things is, "I was shot but I wasn't even detected". The majority of players had no idea what it was alerting them to. I personally answered hundreds of threads about it and having to explain how it worked. 

 

Using it to know when artillery was aiming at you is a very situational thing and not something a new player would know how to do. They've lost nothing but gain a useful tool to give them better situational awareness and hopefully makes for a better teammate in battle. :great:

 

View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

Players did not know it was telling them that. It was covered in the first paragraph. Players thought it told them when they were detected, not being targeted, while spotted, while your gun is pointed in the direction of the enemy player that is looking at you. 

 

It was a confusing mechanic that the majority of players did not understand and was replaced with a more useful system that benefits all players equally. This is a good thing to improve the game for all players. :great:

 

 

Lol what???? Confusing???

It was a pretty simple concept. Oh, I'm spotted reds can see me. Oh, detected just went off someones targeting me.... Pretty basic stuff. 

 

Now if you had more than one brain cell you could turn that warning into a "compass" and figure out what direction X hidden TD was in or arty or camping heavy or bush humping scout etc...etc... Now... Now when arty is directly targeting you while spotted, you won't know. Why? Cause you guys had the bonehead idea to [edited]with the detected system.... 

 

Way...to...go.... GG.... 

 

Do you guys even play the game, do you guys even pay attention when you do play the game the odd time? Sure as hell doesn't seem like it..... 



BigHundy #52 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:24 AM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 07 December 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

 

New (and old)  players thought that detected was telling them when they were detected. If you've been around the forums awhile, you probably notice one of the most common things is, "I was shot but I wasn't even detected". The majority of players had no idea what it was alerting them to. I personally answered hundreds of threads about it and having to explain how it worked. 

 

Using it to know when artillery was aiming at you is a very situational thing and not something a new player would know how to do. They've lost nothing but gain a useful tool to give them better situational awareness and hopefully makes for a better teammate in battle. :great:

 

wow. Just wow.

 

while it’s possible some players didn’t know exactly what detected meant, so instead of adding in new information, changing the name, et cetera, you just change how it works and buff the one class that is completely broken?

 

good job! 

 

 

Smh.

 

I have sat here on the fence through a lot of garbage.

 

No more.

 

Whoever is in charge of this ( I know it’s not you max), is an idiot. Plain and simple.

 

give me my ban idgaf


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TheDeadTANKer #53 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:27 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 06 December 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

 

​But that wouldn't ALSO give a bone to new players.  

New players getting something to help new player retention has been asked for in numerous threads going back years.  WG finds a way to implement a change to a system which minimally effects only the top tier of players while simultaneously giving new players a much easier to understand system, but it's the end of days.  

 

 

How does this change help new players? Arguing it does help them makes no sense to me.

 

If new players didn't understand how detected worked and when arty was targeting them,this changes nothing for N00bs. Except its worse,new players will still get nuked by arty but will nerver get a chance to learn how to avoid arty sometimes using detected.  

 

This change doesn't help new players,it hurts everyone not playing an arty.

 



Dsylexic Shrimp #54 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:29 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

 

You STILL know if arty is aiming at you, you just DO NOT know what kind of tank it is.

 

Only the 6th Sense light goes off, even if arty is looking at you. Got out spotted by a T29 in my Tiger 1 on Ardennes. No detected sensor fired up (like it has the last 3+ years I've been playing), engaged another player and them Wham! Hummel round takes 60% of my HP. Could have been a lucky shot, but it has happened in multiple games. No clue that arty has you targeted. None whatsoever.    

DrHorrible4Life #55 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:34 AM

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View PostNorrin-Radd_SS01, on 07 December 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

 

Yes you know that arty is aiming for you because they hit you, but the "targeted" alert is not triggered by arty. Did you start a thread without realising what they had done?

 

​You know they ARE GOING TO shoot a long time before they do.  When !targeted pops, they have begun to react to your presence.  Then they:

 

1: Start aiming

2: Aim more

3: are we tier 4? if not AIM MORE

4: Fire, shell velocity varies, but no shell hits you instantly so ADD flight time.

 

IF they skip any of those steps, you don't get hit.  If they follow ALL of those steps they still miss half the time.  Are you STILL where you were when you got !targeted?  If so, you're gonna hate this game for other reasons too.



Saerbhreathach #56 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:36 AM

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If I know, or have a good hinkering that arty is due east from me and I'm busy dealing with 3 reds in front of me I used to be able to do a quick scan of the eastern skyline. If "detected" went off I backed off cause chances are it was arty targeting me. 

 

Now that little bit of information is gone. I'll NEVER KNOW that arty is looking at me and I'll get hammered by arty because of this "improved feature". And this is supposed to be a good thing????? :amazed:

 

 



DrHorrible4Life #57 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:36 AM

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View PostDsylexic Shrimp, on 07 December 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

 

Only the 6th Sense light goes off, even if arty is looking at you. Got out spotted by a T29 in my Tiger 1 on Ardennes. No detected sensor fired up (like it has the last 3+ years I've been playing), engaged another player and them Wham! Hummel round takes 60% of my HP. Could have been a lucky shot, but it has happened in multiple games. No clue that arty has you targeted. None whatsoever.    

 

​Shooting at tracers, which IS an OP mechanic that needs to go.  Arty god-view should not show tracers IMO, but thats why you died.

Mr Crowley ll #58 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:40 AM

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View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 06 December 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

 

​What does that have to do with NEW players.  I'm saying NEW players didn't know that !detected could mean artillery was aiming at them.  I am not at all new, and I always thought that detected, followed by an arty round meant that I was spotted, so naturally arty fired.  I'm not alone among first wave beta testers in that mistaken line of thought. 

 

That's how it functions now.  IF you are seen, you are !targeted.  IF you are seen, a well aimed artillery shot may be headed you way sometime between flight time and aim+flight time, so get cover.

Used to be if arty aimed at you (despite no reds ever detecting you) the targeting alarm went off.  Very useful piece of information. 

 

Before 

Detected = enemy knows your position

Detected + Targeted = expect to be hit by a round

Targeted = Arty is aiming at you 

No alarm = no one is aiming at you

 

 

Now

Targeted =  Detected??? Detected and being aimed at???  expect to be hit by a round

No Alarm = ????Arty could be aiming at you. You don't know now

 

 



 


DrHorrible4Life #59 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:42 AM

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View PostSaerbhreathach, on 07 December 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

If I know, or have a good hinkering that arty is due east from me and I'm busy dealing with 3 reds in front of me I used to be able to do a quick scan of the eastern skyline. If "detected" went off I backed off cause chances are it was arty targeting me. 

 

Now that little bit of information is gone. I'll NEVER KNOW that arty is looking at me and I'll get hammered by arty because of this "improved feature". And this is supposed to be a good thing????? :amazed:

 

 

 

​You'll know you're spotted, and since you're one of the best scouts in the game you can figure out what to do with that info.  In my type 64, I consider it my job to figure out where their arty is and can tell by map knowledge (which you have), listening to chat, and seeing the shells in the air.  

TheDeadTANKer #60 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:47 AM

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View PostSaerbhreathach, on 06 December 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

If I know, or have a good hinkering that arty is due east from me and I'm busy dealing with 3 reds in front of me I used to be able to do a quick scan of the eastern skyline. If "detected" went off I backed off cause chances are it was arty targeting me. 

 

Now that little bit of information is gone. I'll NEVER KNOW that arty is looking at me and I'll get hammered by arty because of this "improved feature". And this is supposed to be a good thing????? :amazed:

 

 

 

 

 

This

 

I'm a very agressive front line player that used the detected system to try and avoid arty and help the team and the camping N00b's get some shots from my spotting and aggressive play style.  Now with this new targeted thing I might as well camp base with the others and not risk getting nuked by arty or a  td that I have no idea what direction he's hiding.   Thats gonna really help new players.

 






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