Jump to content


Bye Bye Crutches

!targeted

  • Please log in to reply
170 replies to this topic

Hex Arcana #61 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:49 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 28551 battles
  • 1,665
  • [RTA]
  • Member since:
    02-19-2015
 

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

 

​By always knowing when you are spotted, you can then use your awareness of where arty is (through the actual shells that are visible in the sky) to, like, play good.  You'll see, this is how most people thought it worked to begin with.  There are a few different ways to know where they are, but I won't spoil the ending.

 

Figure out where artillery is by getting hit by artillery. #PotatoLogic. 

 

Good luck spotting those lo-rez light-on-light sky pixels on these small maps. (Not to mention that half the time this buggd out game doesn't render tracer trajectory properly)



DrHorrible4Life #62 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:50 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 9300 battles
  • 2,469
  • Member since:
    07-12-2013

View PostMr Crowley ll, on 07 December 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

Used to be if arty aimed at you (despite no reds ever detecting you) the targeting alarm went off.  Very useful piece of information. 

 

Before 

Detected = enemy knows your position

Detected + Targeted = expect to be hit by a round

Targeted = Arty is aiming at you 

No alarm = no one is aiming at you

 

 

Now

Targeted =  Detected??? Detected and being aimed at???  expect to be hit by a round

No Alarm = ????Arty could be aiming at you. You don't know now

 

 

 

​Well, there wasn't a !targeted before today, but at least the rest is wrong too.

 

Before

!detected means spotted, by someone in your line of sight, while they're aiming at you or by process of elimination arty.

 

now

!targeted means spotted, by something somewhere.

 

If you're as clever as I think you are, you can see how, to the NEW player, this system is less complicated. 



Saerbhreathach #63 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:54 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 18540 battles
  • 13,450
  • [LIGHT]
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

 

​You'll know you're spotted, and since you're one of the best scouts in the game you can figure out what to do with that info.  In my type 64, I consider it my job to figure out where their arty is and can tell by map knowledge (which you have), listening to chat, and seeing the shells in the air.  

 

 

Yes I'll know I'm spotted cause "spotted" will go off BUT I won't know if it's arty targeting me or a TD. And thus I WON'T be able to play as "arty safe" BECAUSE I DON'T know it's targeting me. I SHOULDN'T have to "figure it out" detected still works for all other classes. Arty is THE ONLY class that WON'T set off detected. That's cheating as far as I'm concerned and someone at WG needs to get their [edited]head checked, cause there's a couple screws loose.... 



Saerbhreathach #64 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:55 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 18540 battles
  • 13,450
  • [LIGHT]
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013
Where's the neg button when you need it?? If there was ever a time for a neg button, now is that time. Max deserves a metric ton of them and Drhorrible here needs to be neg'ed into oblivion. The potato logic is strong with him..... 

Corporal Derpy #65 Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:57 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 19392 battles
  • 16,625
  • [KMD]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

​By always knowing when you are spotted, you can then use your awareness of where arty is (through the actual shells that are visible in the sky) to, like, play good. 

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 03:42 AM, said:

In my type 64, I consider it my job to figure out where their arty is and can tell by map knowledge (which you have), listening to chat, and seeing the shells in the air.  

 

Why are you looking at the sky instead of the ground?

Just curious, did they per chance secretly sneak in a bunch of tanks that have wings in the update without me knowing about it.

 

Sure yes, if you're going up hill and pointing the camera forward it could be seen as looking at the sky but chances are the Arty isn't up on that hill now is it. In which case you're going to be pointing your guns where the enemy tanks are, on the ground or where rocks/buildings are so you don't hit them and flip or bring your tank to a halt, which are on the ground.

Your performance in the Type 64 seems to already give an answer as to how you play it, but I'm genuinely curious, if you are in a tight knit brawl with an enemy tank or tanks do you just auto-aim and jam your camera into the sky hoping to see the Arty shot coming in, if so do you then just gun it straight in that direction even if it's still the early minutes of a match.


Garage : 

'Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of morons who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.'

'The term "casual gamer" is actually not accurate enough anymore to describe what the larger market is like. They want the illusion of accomplishment, but not the effort associated with it. The players aren't really doing anything, something else is doing it for them, and the player takes the credit for it.


Sohbrikay #66 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:03 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7735 battles
  • 375
  • Member since:
    07-22-2017

So, right, ummm.

Right, previously, if I had !Detected light-up then a Red Tank would of discovered me and been looking at me?

And then if I moved so the Red Tank wasn't looking at me (but maybe looking at the rock / house I went behind) if would still show !Detected for a short time?

And then if Arty was looking at me for a shot, would it still stay !Detected? until when?

If I was in cover until !Detected went away but then Arty was looking over / up / down / around-and-around where I was and stopped on me (although blind) - would I have shown !Detected?

 

 

So now, if !Targeted lights-up that means someone could land a shot any second?

So then I move to break L-O-S with the Red Tank (and he stares at the rock) it would still show !Targeted for a short time?

And if Arty was looking at me for a shot, then once I sought cover and waited for !Targeted to drop but Arty was still looking and stopped on me (although blind) - would I show !Targeted?


Sobriquet. Sohbrikay, Soh - bri - kay....

 

Say it with me : Cannon - Fodd - errrrr

 

https://console.worl...yers/1078747091  <- Please don't mock me (at least not to much)


Wroclaw #67 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:09 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 28851 battles
  • 2,300
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

OK, so previously if you were spotted by someone and your gun was pointed the wrong way, you wouldn't know until arty started aiming at you?  Is this right?

 

i would have detected go off if arty was looking at me.

 

most people in a match will generally look in the direction of the reds / reds base. with the way detected was previously, it would give you warnings if arty put their target on your spotted tank.



test777777 #68 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:11 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 5178 battles
  • 634
  • Member since:
    07-01-2017

Just adding to the debate a bit and not related so much to Arty but the whole detected, spotted 6th sense ,mechanic and the concept of dumbing it down for newbies and taking advantages away from experienced players..

I like the idea of no alerts unless looking at an enemy and can see it's gun sights pointed a particular way or another green has sighted the enemy pointing it's gun a particular way. Why should anyone have any alerts about anything that they or the team don't spot for themselves?

 

I don't know whether the idea translates into decent gameplay or not though.

 

I hear a lot of stuff about  how experienced players are tired of dumbing it down so stupid potatoes can compete and don't need to git gud..I see spotting alerts and crack crew buffs, prem ammo, food etc as dumbing it down with a typically one way advantage, not afforded to newbie players.

 

I remember being super frustrated as a very new tanker, where I just couldn't get an opportunity to shoot anything because the enemy would be alerted before I could get a shot of...no 6th sense skill in my new tank, didn't know it existed, I also had stock tanks which were typically UP too, just for a double whammy.

 

I'd note a distant Red and note it was quite exposed and just sitting there and  i'd painstakingly work my way around and i'd eventually get it in my sights, so i'd move my sights on to it and start aiming and immediately the Target would  takes evasive action and go behind cover before my gunner had fully aimed, then it would peak out of cover and i'd be spotted. It would disappear and i'd see it again, just after it put a shot in to me and it was backing in to cover until it disappeared again,  I could never aim as fast, reload as quickly, damage modules as easily nor were my shots as accurate, even in the same tank. If I was tracked, I would be exposed for longer, much longer to repair  - probably a crew training thing. It's like new players play on difficult, while experienced players play with all the easy options ticked.

 

It's not a very newbie friendly environment and experience players forget the dumbed down advantage they have on the battlefield relative to the new potato they so love to hate.  Experienced player skill and experience should be more than enough.

 

Maybe if we reversed the advantage and new players get the benefit of alerts while experienced tankers get none, we might see a few less potatoes and some frustrated experienced tankers, who,while being better than new players, without holding all of the OPness, aren't as gud as they thought they were.

 

 

 



DrHorrible4Life #69 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:17 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 9300 battles
  • 2,469
  • Member since:
    07-12-2013

View PostCorporal Derpy, on 07 December 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

 

Why are you looking at the sky instead of the ground?

Just curious, did they per chance secretly sneak in a bunch of tanks that have wings in the update without me knowing about it.

 

Sure yes, if you're going up hill and pointing the camera forward it could be seen as looking at the sky but chances are the Arty isn't up on that hill now is it. In which case you're going to be pointing your guns where the enemy tanks are, on the ground or where rocks/buildings are so you don't hit them and flip or bring your tank to a halt, which are on the ground.

Your performance in the Type 64 seems to already give an answer as to how you play it, but I'm genuinely curious, if you are in a tight knit brawl with an enemy tank or tanks do you just auto-aim and jam your camera into the sky hoping to see the Arty shot coming in, if so do you then just gun it straight in that direction even if it's still the early minutes of a match.

 

​Can you not see the sky in front of you when you're driving forward?  Do you have the camera above you in a top-down view.  See the line when the ground meets the not ground?   That's a horizon, and right above that line is the god damned sky.  Now when your teammates are in your line of sight, the shells hitting them from above are the ones falling from the [edited]sky.  Those are arty shells.  Now look at your map.  Where could that shell have come from?  

 

Nevermind, it's obvious that this change will destroy your gameplay.  And through a stroke of pure luck I didn't know how detected worked in relation to artillery, so not a single thing will change for me except that i'll always know when I'm spotted.  I personally would love to see this change be as devastating to you as you make it out to be.   



DrHorrible4Life #70 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:20 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 9300 battles
  • 2,469
  • Member since:
    07-12-2013

View PostWroclaw, on 07 December 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

 

i would have detected go off if arty was looking at me.

 

most people in a match will generally look in the direction of the reds / reds base. with the way detected was previously, it would give you warnings if arty put their target on your spotted tank.

 

​Yeah max corrected that in his reply so I left it for context.  It furthered my point that the old detection system was misunderstood and that the new system is idiotproof, which I'm told is bad by players several colors better than me.  

FuzzySquirrel21 #71 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:25 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 4153 battles
  • 329
  • Member since:
    10-08-2016
There was no need to change this mechanic at all.   This new hurts both new and old players.  

How can this new mechanic possibly help new players at all?.   A new player is being targeted, ducks behind cover from enemy tanks.   Target goes away, new player thinks he’s safe, then BAM ARTY STRIKES HIM DOWN.   Please tell me again, how does the new mechanic help new players at all to deal with arty.   Explain to me how does this help new players Max?.

I see myself playing less and less.   I played a few matches and currently hate how the new system works.  Wasn’t needed at all.   Don’t fix what ain’t broke.

Oh yeah, they go and do this stupid change but they can’t fix mm tank class distribution.

Saerbhreathach #72 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:25 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 18540 battles
  • 13,450
  • [LIGHT]
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 12:50 AM, said:

 

​Yeah max corrected that in his reply so I left it for context.  It furthered my point that the old detection system was misunderstood and that the new system is idiotproof, which I'm told is bad by players several colors better than me.  

 

The old system... 

"Spotted" = the entire red team can see you as long as their within render range

"Detected" = being directly targeted by a red down range in the direction you're looking. 

 

"Decteced" won't display unless the red is looking at you and you're looking in the direction of said red. 

 

Pretty idiot proof if you ask me.... Maybe IF WG did a better job at explain this in game, there wouldn't be as many confused players... 

 

But nah. Let's remove a bit of vital directional info to dumb it down even further. All the while give arty a ninja buff.... Makes sense yep.... :facepalm:



JaRIS42 #73 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:36 AM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 19773 battles
  • 121
  • Member since:
    11-03-2015

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

 

​You know they ARE GOING TO shoot a long time before they do.  When !targeted pops, they have begun to react to your presence.  Then they:

 

1: Start aiming

2: Aim more

3: are we tier 4? if not AIM MORE

4: Fire, shell velocity varies, but no shell hits you instantly so ADD flight time.

 

IF they skip any of those steps, you don't get hit.  If they follow ALL of those steps they still miss half the time.  Are you STILL where you were when you got !targeted?  If so, you're gonna hate this game for other reasons too.

 

But the new targeted! only works if they are looking at you (half of the equation in the old detected system) and not if they're arty.

 

So if only arty is targeting you, no alert.

 

If you are spotted but no one aims at you (except arty) no alert.

 

Targeted! does not work like a delayed (i.e. PC style) Sixth Sense, if no one points a non arty gun at you, still no alert.

 

What people here are bothered about is that previously, if you were visible to the enemy team, arty was targeting you and you were looking in the direction of the arty you got an alert.

 

Edit: I think only the camera has to be on target for the targeted/detected system, not necessarily the gun.


Edited by JaRIS42, 07 December 2017 - 04:50 AM.


test777777 #74 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:38 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 5178 battles
  • 634
  • Member since:
    07-01-2017

View PostSaerbhreathach, on 07 December 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

Arty is THE ONLY class that WON'T set off detected. That's cheating as far as I'm concerned and someone at WG needs to get their [edited]head checked, cause there's a couple screws loose.... 

I know I mention this quite a bit but Let me say it again, Experienced players are the only players who are afforded the advantages of experienced crews which act like reduced difficulty modifiers. Is using them also cheating as far as you're concerned?

I see being alerted that Arty is targeting as cheating...how could a tanker possibly know that they are being targeted by artillery until the shells start dropping?

I've only got around 5k battles under my belt so I don't understand this Arty OPness, i'm also pretty rubbish at the game so maybe arty only devastates experienced players but I doubt it.

It may be quite different at tier IX and X though.

 

 



Unkempt #75 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:43 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 13661 battles
  • 3,253
  • [SRT]
  • Member since:
    01-20-2016

View PostDerailedWingnut, on 06 December 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

 

The problem with that is that the new players lost nothing, while the skilled players lost a useful tool.

 

Ding, ding, ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. 

 

"Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your BOOK!"


gigagram #76 Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:47 AM

    Captain

  • Players
  • 7502 battles
  • 1,369
  • Member since:
    05-06-2016

View Posttest777777, on 07 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

I see being alerted that Arty is targeting as cheating...how could a tanker possibly know that they are being targeted by artillery until the shells start dropping?

 

 

How could any tanker know they were being targeted unless they had eyes on the tank that was targeting them?  Arty is now the only class that won't trigger detected.  Why?  

Corporal Derpy #77 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:06 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 19392 battles
  • 16,625
  • [KMD]
  • Member since:
    02-12-2014

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

​Can you not see the sky in front of you when you're driving forward?  Do you have the camera above you in a top-down view.  See the line when the ground meets the not ground?   That's a horizon, and right above that line is the god damned sky.  Now when your teammates are in your line of sight, the shells hitting them from above are the ones falling from the [edited]sky.  Those are arty shells.  Now look at your map.  Where could that shell have come from?  

 

Can I see the sky in front of me as I drive forward with my gun pointed upwards slightly as I have the camera behind the tank to see where I'm going? Yes.

Know what I'm not doing in the midst of brawling with enemies? Pointing my camera directly forwards in a slight upwards manner so I can see where I'm going. I'm pointing it at the enemy tanks that I am engaging, you should try it sometimes.

 

I'm gonna be pointing my camera at them so I can see what on earth the tank directly next to me firing or at least trying to fire at me is doing, where his gun is, how he's moving his hull and so on.

I'm not going to be doing what you seem to be and having my camera the opposite direction so that I can see if I can make out a tiny little pixel in the sky for a split second.

 

View PostDrHorrible4Life, on 07 December 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

Nevermind, it's obvious that this change will destroy your gameplay.  And through a stroke of pure luck I didn't know how detected worked in relation to artillery, so not a single thing will change for me except that i'll always know when I'm spotted.  I personally would love to see this change be as devastating to you as you make it out to be.   

 

The change is unlikely to have a hugely negative effect on my gameplay, it will be annoying but I will still continue to outperform you in every single way possible.

No matter how much the game is going to change that will never happen.


Garage : 

'Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of morons who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.'

'The term "casual gamer" is actually not accurate enough anymore to describe what the larger market is like. They want the illusion of accomplishment, but not the effort associated with it. The players aren't really doing anything, something else is doing it for them, and the player takes the credit for it.


Turbo_RB20 #78 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:07 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 719 battles
  • 552
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

View PostMaxChaos24, on 06 December 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

New (and old)  players thought that detected was telling them when they were detected. If you've been around the forums awhile, you probably notice one of the most common things is, "I was shot but I wasn't even detected". The majority of players had no idea what it was alerting them to. I personally answered hundreds of threads about it and having to explain how it worked. 

 

Using it to know when artillery was aiming at you is a very situational thing and not something a new player would know how to do. They've lost nothing but gain a useful tool to give them better situational awareness and hopefully makes for a better teammate in battle. :great:

 

I've supported this game throufh everything, but this one change was not needed at all and honestly makes me want to not play the game for good, ever again. It WAS not a very situational thing. It was extremely useful to know when to be able to push without instantly losing all of your health. Do you guys even honestly play your own game? This was a horrible idea. This, is how you push away your loyal players that have gotten your company this far. All you guys have to do is make in game mechanic tiutorials better in the actual game. So, a mechanic that was extremely helpful to players got removed because the noobs didn't even know it existed (because no where does the game even try to educate new players). No, I'm sorry, but that was an extremely bad call. Btw how does less information to the player make them a better team player? No, this update is going to be the downfall of the game. It's going to make everyone just camp, even skilled players. So basically this game is turning into "everyone gets a participation trophy for trying". That's not a way to teach new players. Man I've been in the hospital for a month now wanting to do nothing but come home and play this game, and honestly I think I'm done until this issue is fixed and back to normal. You know what, there are new players that dom't know you can switch currencies from gold to silver for consumables, why not remove that feature for everyone too, after all, it'll make the game better for the new players. Nah, this is horse crap, and going to be the cause in losing a large player base of players like myself who most likely paid someone's salary. No more money from this. The mechanic wasn't hurting anyone by being there even if people didn't know anout it. I can't wait to just get randomly full health nuked and not even have the slightest warning. Way to kill your game.

Leader of _MLG_ "Mostly Loading Gold"     WOT console streamer. twitch.tv/unknownxdr1ft3r


W 4 L K U R E #79 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:13 AM

    Major

  • Players
  • 24483 battles
  • 3,661
  • [TRB]
  • Member since:
    02-15-2014
The arty shilling/unicorn shaming is strong with this thread. This is a pretty poor topic to make your great stand on guys...you have next to no stable ground

​My FV215b Review is here: 

​WOTC 2017- The emperor has no clothes!


Saerbhreathach #80 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:18 AM

    Major

  • Beta Tester
  • 18540 battles
  • 13,450
  • [LIGHT]
  • Member since:
    09-14-2013

View Posttest777777, on 07 December 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

I know I mention this quite a bit but Let me say it again, Experienced players are the only players who are afforded the advantages of experienced crews which act like reduced difficulty modifiers. Is using them also cheating as far as you're concerned?

I see being alerted that Arty is targeting as cheating...how could a tanker possibly know that they are being targeted by artillery until the shells start dropping?

I've only got around 5k battles under my belt so I don't understand this Arty OPness, i'm also pretty rubbish at the game so maybe arty only devastates experienced players but I doubt it.

It may be quite different at tier IX and X though.

 

 

 

You didn't need an experienced crew to use the spotted/detected tactic all you needed was sixth sense.... And no, experienced crews are not cheating, their experienced.... 

How is getting an alert to incoming arty fire cheating? It works with TD's and you're fine with it, it works with mediums and you're fine with it, it works with all classes other than arty and you're fine with it. But arty.... Nah that's it's cheating.... No it's not cheating, it's treating arty like any other class. 

No I don't get smashed by arty all that often BUT that's because I play arty aware. I watch for signs of where arty is focused and adjust accordingly. Still doesn't mean it's a cheap/broken game mechanic. As of right now, arty can sit on the other side of the map, totally hidden, TOTALLY HIDDEN and just plug away at targets. No repercussions, no draw backs, just shooten fish in a barrel. And us fish just lost one warning sing that we're about to be shot... 






7 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 7 guests, 0 anonymous users