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76th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor

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SlagInGristle #21 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:11 PM

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http://worldwar2-database.blogspot.sg/2010/10/world-war-ii-casualties.html

 

no victim assistance fund for these folks. 


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Snorelacks #22 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:17 PM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 07 December 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

Nor were there any for any previous wars going back millennia. They're terrible things, and most of them were probably preventable.


 


Vasco8407 #23 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:27 PM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 07 December 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

16 million dead germans

22 million dead russians

30 million dead chinese

?? Million dead Japanese 

koreans, polish, etc. etc.

 

450k thousand dead Americans ..... but yea the USA won the war. wthfolks a [edited]measuring contest? Winners write the history..... 

 

Enjoy the fact we haven’t all been engulfed in thermonuclear government protection.......

 So you're measuring by how many died? And I don't think anyone was claiming that America won the war. The argument was whether or not America's HELP turned the tide or had an effect. 

 

Another problem with your numbers are time in war (generally the longer someone is actively fighting a war, the more deaths they'll sustain) and location. America itself saw no major action on it's homeland. The other countries lost a lot of civilians also. Russia in particular lost many more civilians than service men. When the Nazi's invaded the USSR they killed everyone. 

 

Also, what's your source? 



vampyrii #24 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:27 PM

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I am not American but may I suggest some movies for today?

 


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SlagInGristle #25 Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:34 PM

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View PostVasco8407, on 07 December 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

 So you're measuring by how many died? And I don't think anyone was claiming that America won the war. The argument was whether or not America's HELP turned the tide or had an effect. 

 

Another problem with your numbers are time in war (generally the longer someone is actively fighting a war, the more deaths they'll sustain) and location. America itself saw no major action on it's homeland. The other countries lost a lot of civilians also. Russia in particular lost many more civilians than service men. When the Nazi's invaded the USSR they killed everyone. 

 

Also, what's your source? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_by_casualties

 

lets celebrate them all. 


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Vasco8407 #26 Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:35 PM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 07 December 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

 

Sorry might be my phone but not seeing it. Also, I think you might be missing the point but no worries. Celebrate away. 

test777777 #27 Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:33 PM

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While it was tragic and a turning point in the war, every countries citizens has its own tragic tale of loss from that awful time and loss and tragedy was a daily occurrence. 

 

Im an Australian, more bombs fell on Darwin than Pearl Harbour but Outside of Australia it wouldn’t be common knowledge. Half the world probably hasn’t even heard of Darwin and couldn’t care a less anyway.   European cities,were flattened by bombing and then there was the massive tragic end to the war with untold deathtoll to Japanese civilian population. 

7th of December was definitely a turning point of the war but I can’t help wondering if it changed things for the better...USA didn’t seem to care prior to that event.  If it’s any consolation, I know the date and do think of the loss. 



test777777 #28 Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

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View PostEmothic, on 07 December 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

 

It's not really a turning point. 

It very much was. 



Metalrodent #29 Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

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I would hardly class Pearl Harbour as forgotten. If you want forgotten consider the fact that the Japanese attacked the British before they hit Pearl Harbour, yet the British/Aussies/Indians/Dutch who died on the first day never get a mention.

 

The first casualties of the Pacific War was a crew of Aussies in a Catalina who strayed a bit too far.


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Hobbit Rampage #30 Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:04 PM

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It may have been traumatic for the US, but remember Europe and Asia had been locked in war for years already.

 

WG seems to note only major events around armoured warfare.   And around victories, if I'm remembering.   Pearl Harbor was a sad event.

 

I don't think they even note the battle of Kursk do they ?

 

It is sales driven as well: Xmas bundles have nothing to do with historical battles.

 



Hobbit Rampage #31 Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:17 PM

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On a brighter note it is also the birthday of Noam Chomsky, one of America's greatest intellectuals and dissidents.

 

WG should mark that!



A Dwarfer #32 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:07 PM

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View Posttest777777, on 08 December 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

While it was tragic and a turning point in the war, every countries citizens has its own tragic tale of loss from that awful time and loss and tragedy was a daily occurrence. 

 

Im an Australian, more bombs fell on Darwin than Pearl Harbour but Outside of Australia it wouldn’t be common knowledge. Half the world probably hasn’t even heard of Darwin and couldn’t care a less anyway.   European cities,were flattened by bombing and then there was the massive tragic end to the war with untold deathtoll to Japanese civilian population. 

7th of December was definitely a turning point of the war but I can’t help wondering if it changed things for the better...USA didn’t seem to care prior to that event.  If it’s any consolation, I know the date and do think of the loss. 

Im British and ive heard of Darvin. Also know of the partime soldiers called 'chocos' that stopped the invading jap army. You lot showed the japs werent unbeatable.

  


Edited by A Dwarfer, 08 December 2017 - 10:10 PM.


Snorelacks #33 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:10 PM

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View Posttest777777, on 08 December 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

While it was tragic and a turning point in the war, every countries citizens has its own tragic tale of loss from that awful time and loss and tragedy was a daily occurrence.

 

Im an Australian, more bombs fell on Darwin than Pearl Harbour but Outside of Australia it wouldn’t be common knowledge. Half the world probably hasn’t even heard of Darwin and couldn’t care a less anyway.   European cities,were flattened by bombing and then there was the massive tragic end to the war with untold deathtoll to Japanese civilian population.

7th of December was definitely a turning point of the war but I can’t help wondering if it changed things for the better...USA didn’t seem to care prior to that event.  If it’s any consolation, I know the date and do think of the loss.

 

I'm proud to say I have consumed a Darwin Stubbie. :teethhappy:


 


IBROX 04 #34 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:12 PM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 07 December 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

16 million dead germans

22 million dead russians

30 million dead chinese

?? Million dead Japanese 

koreans, polish, etc. etc.

 

450k thousand dead Americans ..... but yea the USA won the war. wthfolks a [edited]measuring contest? Winners write the history..... 

 

Enjoy the fact we haven’t all been engulfed in thermonuclear government protection.......

 

Not really, most historical numbers go with 80+ million. You ever wonder why? 

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A Dwarfer #35 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:12 PM

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View PostDoctor_Who_22, on 07 December 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

True,  but as a major turning point of WWII, it would be nice to see a small acknowledgement......

 

​Wargaming probably did on world of warships

 



A Dwarfer #36 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:29 PM

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View PostEmothic, on 07 December 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

 

It's not really a turning point. Germany would of lost the war regardless of American help or not, the only difference is that without American help it would of taken longer. Also When Japan attacked, America only declared war on Japan and not on Germany. The only reason why America fought against Germany was because Germany declared war on America two weeks later. So realisticlly America would only fight against Japan and would 'maybe' declare war on Germany after the defeat of Japan.  

 

​The Russians would have probably got all the way to the English channel instead of stopping at the Elbe. As soon as the Germans took on Russia they were doomed. The USA shortend the war in Europe. Cant think which German said '' Attacking Russia is like an elephant attacking ants. It will kill millions but in the end it will sircome to superior numbers'' 

Edited by A Dwarfer, 08 December 2017 - 10:31 PM.


giaka #37 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:38 PM

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Everyone's brain washing is different. I had an old timer on the Japanese train tell me that not log ago their history books in school showed America attacking Japan first while Japan was trying to negotiate a peace deal in DC.

 

 

 

 


giaka #38 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:44 PM

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View PostBadDad61, on 07 December 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

I had the opportunity to visit Pearl Harbor last year.

I plan on going back some day. One day is not enough time

 

I lived there as a kid and visited often. Several times I would come across folks on vacation from Japan pointing and laughing. I was only a kid but it seemed to me there was nothing to laugh about at the memorial. Fast forward 15 years, I'm a Marine stationed in Japan taking a guided trip though the Hiroshima museum. Again as an adult I didn't find anything what so ever to laugh about. I chalked up the laughing tourist at Pearl as a cultural difference.

 

 

 

 


koiftt #39 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:48 PM

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View PostEmothic, on 07 December 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

 

It's not really a turning point. Germany would of lost the war regardless of American help or not, the only difference is that without American help it would of taken longer. Also When Japan attacked, America only declared war on Japan and not on Germany. The only reason why America fought against Germany was because Germany declared war on America two weeks later. So realisticlly America would only fight against Japan and would 'maybe' declare war on Germany after the defeat of Japan.  

 

Even if the only outcome of the Attack on Pearl Harbour was America declaring war against and defeating Japan, as you yourself admit, it would make it a huge monumental turning point. Typical Western WWII ignorance.

koiftt #40 Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:52 PM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 07 December 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

16 million dead germans

22 million dead russians

30 million dead chinese

?? Million dead Japanese 

koreans, polish, etc. etc.

 

450k thousand dead Americans ..... but yea the USA won the war. wthfolks a [edited]measuring contest? Winners write the history..... 

 

Enjoy the fact we haven’t all been engulfed in thermonuclear government protection.......

 

As has already been stated these numbers include civilians in a war that was fought on German, Russian, Chinese soil.

Interesting to point out though, the highest number is Chinese dead. Who do you think it was that killed them? And who was the dominant force that stopped them?






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