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76th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor

pearl harbor

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SlagInGristle #61 Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:47 AM

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View PostPanchoVia70, on 09 December 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

First, let me offer this advice to you, never use Wikipedia as a source. If you do not know why I’m telling you this then you will probably never understand. 

 

Second, it’s so easy for us to read something that took place nearly eighty y are ago and judge that this happened or this happened or someone didn’t do this or that and that this was a conspiracy. 

 

You speak of the lend lease program being a distaster, you mention that taxes were just taken from “us” but we weren’t around for that, you mention corporates making out in the entire situation, and then you go on about movies being glorified. 

 

Your argument or complaints are so generalized that it’s hard to take anything you mentioned seriously.  

Right. Well I’m not so easy to let what got 5k Americans killed go! wth? The Japanese were to blame? Why the order to stand down when outposts made the call Japanese planes were attacking? An hour! What would have happened had the general alarm been given so air defenses could have been put to use? That Jordan fellow provides records and FYI the official records have still only been partially released, 6 million tons of soap? I bet the soviets were happy to get 6 million tons of soap! Then when the war debt came under question..... it was forgiven! So our corporations sold the government “ lend lease materials “ and when the soviets began to audit the “ bill “ the debt was forgiven! Wow thanks Uncle Sam for being so generous. More like - print a bunch of money and give it to your friends for “ x “ and if it’s ever questioned bury it. 

 

Pearl Harbor has about a library of information that says it was not a surprise at all and that even the Japanese thought the USA government knew it was coming.... the Japanese ambassador waited 12 hrs to not be seen at all triggering the attack.... 30 days of intel said this was the plan..... I guess wmd were a good invasion plan? The gulf of Tonkin? The Spanish American war! Some kind of trend. 


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Pit Friend #62 Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:53 AM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 09 December 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Right. Well I’m not so easy to let what got 5k Americans killed go! wth? The Japanese were to blame? Why the order to stand down when outposts made the call Japanese planes were attacking? An hour! What would have happened had the general alarm been given so air defenses could have been put to use? That Jordan fellow provides records and FYI the official records have still only been partially released, 6 million tons of soap? I bet the soviets were happy to get 6 million tons of soap! Then when the war debt came under question..... it was forgiven! So our corporations sold the government “ lend lease materials “ and when the soviets began to audit the “ bill “ the debt was forgiven! Wow thanks Uncle Sam for being so generous. More like - print a bunch of money and give it to your friends for “ x “ and if it’s ever questioned bury it. 

 

Pearl Harbor has about a library of information that says it was not a surprise at all and that even the Japanese thought the USA government knew it was coming.... the Japanese ambassador waited 12 hrs to not be seen at all triggering the attack.... 30 days of intel said this was the plan..... I guess wmd were a good invasion plan? The gulf of Tonkin? The Spanish American war! Some kind of trend. 

 

Wut? :amazed:

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SlagInGristle #63 Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:54 AM

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The UK wasn’t united either.

 

http://www.markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html


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SlagInGristle #64 Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:58 AM

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View PostSnorelacks, on 09 December 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

 

^^^^^^I stopped paying attention to his posts when he made his statements regarding Lend Lease, completely ignoring or not even knowing about the dire financial situation and draining gold reserves of England. England is a fantastic country and stood extremely tall against the Germans and Italians for a long time before the United States entered the war. However, by minimizing the importance of Lend Lease, the Pan-American Security Zone established in 1939, or the support lent just after Dunkirk just establishes the poster's willingness to gloss over details that played a large part in England's ability to hold the line so bravely. Maybe he should read Winston Churchill's great book "The Second World War" in order to gain a better understanding of just how much the United States helped, as told by Winston Churchill himself.

https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/features/how-far-did-the-uk-aristocracy-s-love-of-the-nazis-really-go-1.67764

 

churchill needed a job. 


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KILTED YAKSMIN #65 Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:05 AM

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It's a shame they scrapped the Enterprise. That ship above all others should have been sacrosanct and sitting where the Missouri sits today.

Snorelacks #66 Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:12 AM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 09 December 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

 

Out of curiosity, how much time do you spend on the InfoWars website? :trollface::facepalm:



 


SlagInGristle #67 Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:28 AM

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View PostSnorelacks, on 10 December 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

 

Out of curiosity, how much time do you spend on the InfoWars website? :trollface::facepalm:

 

none. 
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SlagInGristle #68 Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:30 AM

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View PostKILTED YAKSMIN, on 10 December 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

It's a shame they scrapped the Enterprise. That ship above all others should have been sacrosanct and sitting where the Missouri sits today.

 

http://www.cv6.org/1946/scrap/default.htm
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KILTED YAKSMIN #69 Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:52 AM

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View PostSlagInGristle, on 10 December 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

 

I'm hoping the supposed 1/200 kit of it is out soon. Would take pride and place in my show case.

I even named my last cat after this ship.....lol. Sadly he to has gone.....:confused:

My next cat will be called Ronald Reagan.....:great:



Panzer lV #70 Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:19 AM

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6 million tons of soap? USSR never intended to pay back LL debt, what was US going to do, force them to?. If you are actualy interested in how lend lease helped the USSR in WW2 i sugest Sokolovs, The Role of Lend Lease. As it debunks the Cold War propaganda fed to the USSR populace. It's realy quite an interesting read, on just how much the Soviets relied on LL from classified documents ie, they could not even feed their own troops anywhere near daily needs without LL food supplies ie, Spam. fuel problems, transport problems, ie, motor transport, rail cars, aluminum shortages ie, aircraft productiom raw material shortages,ie, nickel, Cr, rubber etc, all dependant on LL deliveries.

 

Not to mention military equiptment ie, British tanks were used to train Soviet tank crew, 3 elite Guards Mechanized Corps were entirely equipped with Shermans, till the end lf the war ie, Manchurian operation. P39s were flown by some of the highest scoreing Soviet aces. LL even delivered M26 Pershings etc.

 

Yet you bring up haveing to pay taxes?, half baked  conspiracy theories, and wikpedia refrences, no one seriously studying anything uses wikpedia, because it is full of errors, and has been proven such. You remind me of an friend of mine he's into all the conspiracy theories, mistrusts government, hates paying taxes, doesn't believe in laws, lastly he truly believes the world is flat. 

 

Regards, John Waters

 

 


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DUTCHMASTER803 #71 Posted 10 December 2017 - 04:27 AM

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View PostPanchoVia70, on 09 December 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

I’m pretty sure that Japan actually purchased a Tiger tank from Germany. It never left Germany but it’s not based on a non existent tank. 

 

So just because the japs gave $ to Germany doesn't make it real, was it ever on Japanese soil? Its a disgrace that simply panders to the anime fans.


SlagInGristle #72 Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:30 AM

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View PostPanzer lV, on 10 December 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

6 million tons of soap? USSR never intended to pay back LL debt, what was US going to do, force them to?. If you are actualy interested in how lend lease helped the USSR in WW2 i sugest Sokolovs, The Role of Lend Lease. As it debunks the Cold War propaganda fed to the USSR populace. It's realy quite an interesting read, on just how much the Soviets relied on LL from classified documents ie, they could not even feed their own troops anywhere near daily needs without LL food supplies ie, Spam. fuel problems, transport problems, ie, motor transport, rail cars, aluminum shortages ie, aircraft productiom raw material shortages,ie, nickel, Cr, rubber etc, all dependant on LL deliveries.

 

Not to mention military equiptment ie, British tanks were used to train Soviet tank crew, 3 elite Guards Mechanized Corps were entirely equipped with Shermans, till the end lf the war ie, Manchurian operation. P39s were flown by some of the highest scoreing Soviet aces. LL even delivered M26 Pershings etc.

 

Yet you bring up haveing to pay taxes?, half baked  conspiracy theories, and wikpedia refrences, no one seriously studying anything uses wikpedia, because it is full of errors, and has been proven such. You remind me of an friend of mine he's into all the conspiracy theories, mistrusts government, hates paying taxes, doesn't believe in laws, lastly he truly believes the world is flat. 

 

Regards, John Waters

 

 

Ok so if the government says it’s good it’s good... I get it. https://ww2-weapons.com/lend-lease-tanks-and-aircrafts/

 

now take that list and compare it to the government partial list of lend lease ( what we paid for ) and you’ll see a huge discrepancy. Also Russia was loading those same vessels going back to the USA with goods - did anyone get any of it for free? We did have a depression going on till 42’ in which maybe 7 million USA citizens died of hunger or hunger related illnesses. 

 

My dad really did eat boots during the depression and lived his life with a minimalists cook book etched in his mind. Oh and yes every single generation of my family has fought in a USA war on the side of righteousness and freedom.... even nearly wiped out the family a few times. Thanks to the sole survivor policy we’re still present. 


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PanchoVia70 #73 Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:32 AM

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View PostDUTCHMASTER803, on 09 December 2017 - 11:27 PM, said:

 

So just because the japs gave $ to Germany doesn't make it real, was it ever on Japanese soil? Its a disgrace that simply panders to the anime fans.

 

it’s not a fable though. Irregardless if it did or didn’t make it to japan the tank existed. 

SlagInGristle #74 Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:55 AM

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http://www.pwencycl.kgbudge.com/L/e/Lend-Lease.htm

 

keep in mind what these numbers mean in today’s valuations and that the USA was not in good economic condition. Also keep in mind the government records still aren’t released and much has been destroyed. The records that did get released cause controversy.

 

Is it any wonder Stalin was skeptical and Churchill was astounded. 


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Panthergraf #75 Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:40 AM

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Without 300.000 GMC Trucks, 1000 Locomotives, millions of soldier Boots, precision tools, rare chemicals, powder and thousands of ships loaded with high quality material, reliable tanks, Jeeps, Halftracks, fighters and bombers the soviets would have had some major troubles getting their supplies to the front and their soldiers and their population armed, clothed and fed.

LL maybe "only" have an impact of 5-15% of soviet production, but it filled some major gaps the soviets could't close by themselves. Especially after losing 40+ % of their Farmland and Industrial key areas in 41-43.

You think milk and egg powder or soap have no strategic impact in a War?

Panzer lV #76 Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:00 AM

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I do not care about the cost of lend lease, in modren terms, or conspiracy theroies, about Pearl Harbor, or espionage, or url links to web site articles. My posts concern the importance and benifit of LL to the USSR in WW2.

 

Regards, John Waters


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VoltaicGrunt #77 Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:45 AM

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North Africa 1942.

 

Churchill said something like not the end, or the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning.

 

Victory in North Africa would not have happened if Malta had fallen. Germany would have taken Egypt, the Suez canal and then India. German U-boats would have bases throughout the Far East, the USN would have been denied the Pacific, Australia would have fallen, and the Axis may well have won.

 

Malta would have fallen without Operation Pedestal and the heroic efforts of the crew of SS Ohio, a US merchant ship.

 

There were a lot of "turning points" in 5 years of war.

 

The real significance of Pearl Harbour - as with 9/11 - is that the USA had not been attacked on their home territory since the war of 1812. On December 6th, the average Joe did not believe a war - in Europe or the Far East - was anything to do with them.

 

December 8th 1941 saw the largest influx of volunteers in US history. The Japs twisted the Tigers tail, and average Joe turned out to be anything but average.

 

Could Britain have beaten the Germans without US intervention? Yes. We'd done it before, a number of times. Could we have beaten them without US support?

 

No.


RU 251 NEEDS MORE BULLETS


SlagInGristle #78 Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:36 PM

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Ok Union Oil was tan by Prescott Bush and Ford was building tanks in Europe. None of the factories were ever bombed.... though entire cities were turned into 500 degree inferno. 

 

No matter if your a good guy I guess. War makes some people very RICH and I’m sure they are happy to let those who’s labor benefits them chew the bit. Obviously the line is a good one and the bit taste is good.

 

I worked for DOD contractors after the USMC and well...... never mind.

 

I think there is another war coming now that will change EVERYONES life. As long as the flag is raised after im guessing you’ll all be happy. Ever wonder why? The materials I posted showed several things but one was that the Japanese were taking pains to not effect the LL program so as to not have Russia or the USA join the war. Had the Japanese ambassador been seen he had a treaty all ready to go basically saying don’t hit us and we won’t hit you.... because you see China was then winning and they knew eventually they would all perish if they couldn’t make terms with China. http://web.kitsapsun.com/archive/1991/12-01/239253_japan_felt_it_had_no_choice_but.html

 

https://m.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/10-things-you-never-knew-about-japaneseadmiralyamamoto-mx.html

 

interesting revelations when all put together.

 

 

 

 


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Pit Friend #79 Posted 10 December 2017 - 03:22 PM

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Well this thread took a turn for the stupid. :facepalm:

When the nice guy loses his patience the devil shivers. 


test777777 #80 Posted 12 December 2017 - 02:39 AM

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View PostPanzer lV, on 09 December 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

ppls deaths in other countries do not diminish the deaths of any nations troops that served in the war regardless of irreversable loss totals, and its an disservice to them and their famalies to imply otherwise.

 

This is so true.

One of the universal truths which comes out of wars is, for the most part we are very much the same, regardless of which side of the political fence we find ourselves on, we as humans share many common elements as humans, we love, we fear, we feel pain, we have family, we bleed and we relate to one another. For most of us, war is something completely foreign and for me, I hope it stays that way.

 

War destroys countless lives and cultures and WW2 was phenomenally brutal in so many ways.  Pain and loss is experienced by individuals of all nations countries who are involved. Heinous acts and atrocities were committed by people of all countries and likewise inspirational acts of kindness, love and charity too. The magnitude of global suffering during WW2 is, for the most part for those alive today, on a scale which cannot be appreciated. The political borders really do not matter though and to try and quantify the relative pain shared by a nation or by individuals with another is almost a mockery to those who endured and suffered it first hand. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by test777777, 12 December 2017 - 02:40 AM.

 

Playing it safe





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