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Arty Requires Skill


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Bling Bedazzled #41 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:15 PM

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It appears that some find it stimulating to highlight their own prowess at the expense of others, based on some arbitrary criteria. “I play light tanks! They require the most skill.”

Well, i’ll have you know that I play in an uncomfortable sitting position, which is very difficult. And i judge skill solely by an ability to successfully cap, with bonus points for most surviving tanks - pretty difficult to accomplish, speaking from experience.

Juke Ninja #42 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:20 PM

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View PostSteelTiiTan, on 12 February 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

 

RNG based 3 marks. There's a select amount of things arty players can do to make themselves better than other arty players, everything else is just luck of the draw and 3 marking is getting lucky on maps and RNG that's all. 

 

Hate to say it, but after well over 100 million in silver and over a year trying to 3 mark an Arty... ^^^^This, maps and not getting 3 min matches or yolosmoked right away, more important factors than anything else. After all, theres really only so many effective Arty spots you can use. Much too much luck involved. I went from 87%moe on the fv305 down to 72%, bad maps, bad teams (die too fast), a few light tanks breaking thru to yolo me and succeeding, and waaalaaah drop 15% moe.

F4ST-D3V1LS #43 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:22 PM

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View PostBling Bedazzled, on 12 February 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

It appears that some find it stimulating to highlight their own prowess at the expense of others, based on some arbitrary criteria. “I play light tanks! They require the most skill.”

Well, i’ll have you know that I play in an uncomfortable sitting position, which is very difficult. And i judge skill solely by an ability to successfully cap, with bonus points for most surviving tanks - pretty difficult to accomplish, speaking from experience.

 

I truly have no idea what you're on about in that last part...

Uncomfortable sitting position ? Skill based on the ability to cap ??? 

 

What...!!??

 


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II NO x VICE II #44 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:22 PM

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View PostBling Bedazzled, on 12 February 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

It appears that some find it stimulating to highlight their own prowess at the expense of others, based on some arbitrary criteria. “I play light tanks! They require the most skill.”

Well, i’ll have you know that I play in an uncomfortable sitting position, which is very difficult. And i judge skill solely by an ability to successfully cap, with bonus points for most surviving tanks - pretty difficult to accomplish, speaking from experience.

 

Oh come off your high horse now. :trollface:

 

I have seen perfectly deep-deep purple players cap for win despite clear dominance of the greens. Perhaps they do it either for EFF or perhaps they see that they are unable to get more kills so lets shorten this game anyways. Either way, no one bats an eyelid.

 

I figure I have lost more XP to true-blue and above c®appers than to Arty.



Ronin Gaidin #45 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:25 PM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 12 February 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

 

I didn't mention a kv2 though did I.    I also didn't mention  anything about a non-existent kv2 having an arty friend.   This was about which is more easy mode,  I'm pretty sure your argument is not that simple.   Yes derp guns can dish out some dmg almost guaranteed,    but doing 50 dmg by splashing isn't exacty helpful when you have a longer reload.  

 

You did mention the KV-1 equipped with Derp, didn't. My mind just went to the KV-2 as the most notorious of the bunch. My apologies.

 

The general direction I was going with all of that would still stand, though. If the first shot from the Derp penetrates thate CKV is crippled (crew and modules) and mostly dead - not enough Alpha to kill him, but leaves his on 1/3rd health and all busted up. Killshot 11 seconds later - it would be close, the CKV-1 might be able to burn him down in that time frame (again assuming no missed shots, no bounced shots, and decent damage rolls). Even if the CKV win, he'd be pretty messed up. This all assumes they just stand there pounding away on each other. If the KV-1 is able to do a little peek-a-boom he has a rather large advantage. 

 

But to really appreciate the talentlessness of the Derp, one must consider it against all of the enemies that it will see. That includes two tiers higher (which it can still splash damage) and a couple tier lower (which it can often one-shot out of the game). Let's say that Derp-equipped KV-1 comes across a Tier V Leopard or Pz. III/IV (Same Tier enemies). They just die. One-shot. Let's put our imaginary game on Himmelsdorf where they meet in an alley with nowhere to dodge or hide. RB + RT = Dead German. That goes for a fair percentage of all Tier V's, and pretty much every Tier IV or III it might run into. So I would still stand by my statement that as far as "Easy Mode" is concerned, the Derps take the top spot. 

 

View PostF4ST-D3V1LS, on 12 February 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:


Let's just say that "normal" tanks require more skill to do well in to keep it civil.
 

 

Or, we could just say that all tanks require some sort of skill set to do well in to keep it civil.

 

Too often, people are just try to (for lack of a better term) "Class Shame", like somehow what they do makes them better and what others do makes them worse. 

 



F4ST-D3V1LS #46 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:37 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 12 February 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

Too often, people are just try to (for lack of a better term) "Class Shame", like somehow what they do makes them better and what others do makes them worse. 

 

 

We're just having a nice discussion here, nobody's class shaming, arty just doesn't require much else besides:

- Leading shots

- calculating reloads

- look at the map

- offer best support possible

- stay away from light tank

 

Furthermore:

 

Arty does not (have to) 

- calculate armor values

- calculate penetration values

- calculate incoming fire or enemy reload times

- aim for tiny weakspots

- angle their armor

- use hulldown tactics

- use sidescrape tactics

- i can think of many more...

 

Look dude, im not saying arty players are less valuable, the class just requires less tactics to do well in...

 


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SeagullOfEvil #47 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:41 PM

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View PostII NO x VICE II, on 12 February 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

 

You (to any player, not you specifically) are likely die of other causes far more than Arty - but it is only your frustration (read: subjectivity) that makes Arty the more memorable for you over other factors, and more of a hate magnet than it actually is. The numbers do not lie, which is why I posted my query. Arty is not a real issue mostly. Sometimes it is, but those instances are few and far between - far far fewer and far far between other reasons.

 

I used to think too that Arty is ruining my day, but then I started paying more attention (or counting my own mistakes) for a few days and it turns out Arty is hardly an influence on my stats or how I die etc. It just seemed that way to me since it was not being thought of objectively. It is also easy to make it a scapegoat (or blame that class) since everyone else is indulging in the same.

 

Once I one shot a T25/2 in my M12. I instinctively knew that rage mail was imminent so I recorded the last 30s. Well, the exchange did happen and as part of the exchange I sent the video to the player to show him what he was doing wrong - I could predict where would be in a few seconds since he was dutifully following the cobblestone pathway and my aim meant the shell went in through his side. Needless to say, the bitter taste might've still been there but he/she was less animated after seeing it.

 

And here is a more recent exchange:

Spoiler

 

I am not an Arty player per se and will not defend a broken class, but I see this a lot.

 

First off, apologies for the sarcasm of my previous post, my first thought when I see a question that I can give no accurate answer to is to instead answer with passive aggressive sarcasm.

 

However like you Ive being paying attention to how often arty shoots at me and how often it kills me and it is pretty often, i will go out to do something aggressive and I can nearly always guarantee an arty shell will land nearby or on top of me withiw a couple of seconds, its got to the point that I've been increasingly passive and campy just so I can go a game without being focused by arty, kinda ironic seeing as arty is meant to stop camping. 

 

Arty loves going for me, so apologies if i begin to hate it for doing that. 



Ronin Gaidin #48 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:42 PM

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View PostF4ST-D3V1LS, on 12 February 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

 

We're just having a nice discussion here, nobody's class shaming, arty just doesn't require much else besides:

- Leading shots

- calculating reloads

- look at the map

- offer best support possible

- stay away from light tank

 

Furthermore:

 

Arty does not (have to) 

- calculate armor values

- calculate penetration values

- calculate incoming fire or enemy reload times

- aim for tiny weakspots

- angle their armor

- use hulldown tactics

- use sidescrape tactics

- i can think of many more...

 

Look dude, im not saying arty players are less valuable, the class just requires less tactics to do well in...

 

 

I humbly disagree with some of the above, but that's not really the point.

 

The point would be this : Why is it important to you (or anyone, really) to get some kind of acknowledgement that playing this or that tank denotes some level of "skill" or is in any other way somehow "less"? 



ThunderChickenX #49 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:42 PM

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It takes skill not to fall asleep while playing arty.


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Bling Bedazzled #50 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:45 PM

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View PostF4ST-D3V1LS, on 12 February 2018 - 09:22 PM, said:

 

I truly have no idea what you're on about in that last part...

Uncomfortable sitting position ? Skill based on the ability to cap ??? 

 

What...!!??

 

 

My sentence-constructing skill exceeds your sentence-parsing skill, noob. Git gud. 

 



John Arrowsmith #51 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:48 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 12 February 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

You did mention the KV-1 equipped with Derp, didn't. My mind just went to the KV-2 as the most notorious of the bunch. My apologies.

 

The general direction I was going with all of that would still stand, though. If the first shot from the Derp penetrates thate CKV is crippled (crew and modules) and mostly dead - not enough Alpha to kill him, but leaves his on 1/3rd health and all busted up. Killshot 11 seconds later - it would be close, the CKV-1 might be able to burn him down in that time frame (again assuming no missed shots, no bounced shots, and decent damage rolls). Even if the CKV win, he'd be pretty messed up. This all assumes they just stand there pounding away on each other. If the KV-1 is able to do a little peek-a-boom he has a rather large advantage. 

 

But to really appreciate the talentlessness of the Derp, one must consider it against all of the enemies that it will see. That includes two tiers higher (which it can still splash damage) and a couple tier lower (which it can often one-shot out of the game). Let's say that Derp-equipped KV-1 comes across a Tier V Leopard or Pz. III/IV (Same Tier enemies). They just die. One-shot. Let's put our imaginary game on Himmelsdorf where they meet in an alley with nowhere to dodge or hide. RB + RT = Dead German. That goes for a fair percentage of all Tier V's, and pretty much every Tier IV or III it might run into. So I would still stand by my statement that as far as "Easy Mode" is concerned, the Derps take the top spot. 

 

 

Or, we could just say that all tanks require some sort of skill set to do well in to keep it civil.

 

Too often, people are just try to (for lack of a better term) "Class Shame", like somehow what they do makes them better and what others do makes them worse. 

 

What about on an open map when the kv1 gets killed  by the Leopard without the kv1 even detecting it?

 

It's all very situational, but again I would much rather have the cap kv1 superior Dpm  than the derp.  Bottom tier you still have more than enough Penn with premium rounds and you could perma  track an enemy if required.   

 

Another example is the type 4 or any other Japanese heavies.  Great alpha potential  but anyone with any sense will just rush you with your 20 second reload.  Even if you reload on most of the line you don' have the gun depression to shoot anything lower than the moon.


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F4ST-D3V1LS #52 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:50 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 12 February 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

 

I humbly disagree with some of the above, but that's not really the point.

 

The point would be this : Why is it important to you (or anyone, really) to get some kind of acknowledgement that playing this or that tank denotes some level of "skill" or is in any other way somehow "less"? 

 

One can state facts without the desire for acknowledgement or adding a value judgement on said topic.

 

Yes, you can go over my comment point by point but im certain that if someone was to make a poll in which these options would be given:

 

Which class requires more skill:

 

A: arty

B: any other class

 

I think we both know what the results would be.

Again: not interested in acknowledgement, just stating the obvious here.

 

 


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Snorelacks #53 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:55 PM

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View PostThunderChickenX, on 12 February 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

It takes skill not to fall asleep while playing arty.

 

I don't know if I'd go that far, but it is far easier to play arty when I'm really tired compared to other tanks :trollface:


 


Ronin Gaidin #54 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:58 PM

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View PostJohn Arrowsmith, on 12 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

What about on an open map when the kv1 gets killed  by the Leopard without the kv1 even detecting it?

 

It's all very situational, but again I would much rather have the cap kv1 superior Dpm  than the derp.  Bottom tier you still have more than enough Penn with premium rounds and you could perma  track an enemy if required.   

 

Another example is the type 4 or any other Japanese heavies.  Great alpha potential  but anyone with any sense will just rush you with your 20 second reload.  Even if you reload on most of the line you don' have the gun depression to shoot anything lower than the moon.

 

I agree with much of this. I never said I would prefer the Derp, or that it would consistently do better in matches. But with respect to your initial question about which is more easy mode they are generally the easist tanks to do at least some damage in, and they can get hilarious lol-inducing one-shots by doing nothing more than pointing in the general direction of the enemy tank and firing. 

 

For many of my 13,000+ deaths in this game I often look for where it all went wrong. Sometimes I simply got out-played, or make a crucial mistake, or went the wrong way. But when you get killed by a Derp, the answer to the question of why you died is generally "You got Derped". 

 

This has been a fun discussion. I'll pick it up tomorrow - time to go home and get my three War Chests!!!  :)

 

 

 

 



Nightlinger 72 #55 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:59 PM

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View Postdadandcam001, on 12 February 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Speaking of the Sexton 1, sense we are all in agreement that it's an OP tank, how do you gauge how you have done when you play it? 
80% mastery badge or better ? 50% mastery badge?

Just curious what others think.

Thanks

 

 

 

I would possibly agree at the Sexton I being OP except the way matchmaking treats it now. In the very rare match where it is top tier, it is usually accompanied by tons of lights racing for that arty kill. If it's in a tier IV match, it can do OK, but no one shots. Tier V presents the challenge of being able to strike a target enough times to destroy it. Tanks that play arty safe can diminish the damage that arty can do. 

Ronin Gaidin #56 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:00 PM

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View PostF4ST-D3V1LS, on 12 February 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

 

One can state facts without the desire for acknowledgement or adding a value judgement on said topic.

 

Yes, you can go over my comment point by point but im certain that if someone was to make a poll in which these options would be given:

 

Which class requires more skill:

 

A: arty

B: any other class

 

I think we both know what the results would be.

Again: not interested in acknowledgement, just stating the obvious here.

 

 

 

Persistently stating what you deem to be obvious until everyone agrees with you is pretty much the textbook definition of seeking acknowledgement. And again (and not just to you - speaking in the broader sense here) why do people keep bringing it up if not seeking some kind of validation?

F4ST-D3V1LS #57 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:02 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 12 February 2018 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

Persistently stating what you deem to be obvious until everyone agrees with you is pretty much the textbook definition of seeking acknowledgement. And again (and not just to you - speaking in the broader sense here) why do people keep bringing it up if not seeking some kind of validation?

It's ok...


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The most skill-taking thing about playing arty is to find a place to commit suicide after recognizing the battle is lost. 

     

             

              

 

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Very Classy #59 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:09 PM

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View PostI44I Warlock, on 12 February 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

The most skill-taking thing about playing arty is to find a place to commit suicide after recognizing the battle is lost. 

 

I knew I was playing arty wrong. 

John Arrowsmith #60 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:23 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 12 February 2018 - 09:58 PM, said:

 

I agree with much of this. I never said I would prefer the Derp, or that it would consistently do better in matches. But with respect to your initial question about which is more easy mode they are generally the easist tanks to do at least some damage in, and they can get hilarious lol-inducing one-shots by doing nothing more than pointing in the general direction of the enemy tank and firing. 

 

For many of my 13,000+ deaths in this game I often look for where it all went wrong. Sometimes I simply got out-played, or make a crucial mistake, or went the wrong way. But when you get killed by a Derp, the answer to the question of why you died is generally "You got Derped". 

 

This has been a fun discussion. I'll pick it up tomorrow - time to go home and get my three War Chests!!!  :)

 

 

 

 

Lucky, I'm not able to collect mine.:(


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