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R35T NO MORE #1 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:27 AM

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I just spent ages writing a lengthy post, for the forum to mess up and wipe it.. Annoying. So, here's the shortened second attempt.. 

 

The games new player experience is terrible. When i started we had no crew skills, and the seal clubbing tanks were the T18, derp Hetzer and Matilda. You would find a couple here and there but it wasn't too bad. 

 

Nowadays however we have crew skills that make a big difference to a tanks performance, and a vast number of very popular seal clubbing premiums, many of which WG gave away. Even with WGs MM apparently trying to keep brand new players separate from experienced clubbers, i doubt it works well. Look at MM in general, it's failures are frequent and severe. Even if it does, by the time new players get to around tier 3 or 4 i'm guessing they are thrown to the wolves.

 

Pain stated in the past that the game loses the vast majority of new players at or before tier 3. As veteran players leave we don't have enough new players starting and staying, which is why the server pop steadily drops. WG say that PVE players aren't shown in the multiplayer server pop but WG directly nerfed proving grounds into the floor and then indirectly nerfed war stories yet the multiplayer numbers didn't rise. 

 

So, the new player experience needs work. What ideas do you have? 

 

I propose tier 1-4 tanks excluding arty get PMM, with a nerf to the Matilda's armour to compensate plus other minor nerfs elsewhere to TT tanks that would over perform. I would also severly nerf the T1e6 variants and the Blitzens are they were free so people can't complain for refunds. 

 

On top of that i would give players under a certain battle cap accelerated crew levelling to help with getting sixth sense, repairs, Bia etc along with tutorials regarding crews. 

 

However me saying these is easy. Implementation isn't and the MM change sounds nice but would cause serious issues, for example it would mean tier 5 had the worst MM in the game with 1 down and 2 up. That's why a discussion would be good. How would you guys improve the new player experience?

 

I had written more last time with more improvement ideas but i don't have time to do it again. 



mikkoj #2 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:31 AM

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Automatic 100% crew training for tier 4 and down for free. Remove sexton 1 and like said nerf blitzen and t1e6.

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StockrA #3 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:39 AM

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Special MM for new players until they hit a few hundred battles or reach tier 5

Would no platoons for tiers 1 to 4 be a bit harsh


 


MASHMAN 90 #4 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:49 AM

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PC has PMM for Tier 3s so we could do with that too, i would say Tier 4 as well but people would stat pad the Matilda, Hetzer etc (or just play a Pz B2), maybe, i know DW2 and B1 only sees Tier 5.

Also add a Co-Op mode like Warships where it's Humans vs AI (with Reduced XP and Silver).

Knot3D #5 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:49 AM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 07 March 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

I How would you guys improve the new player experience?

 

Extensive kill-shot viewer.

 

Basically an extensive replay after a player has been killed to show him:

- the reticle / snapshot perspective view of the enemy tank who killed him, even if the player hadn't spotted this enemy.

- showing the player 3 alternative hull angle positions which would have increased his odds of survival, by means of a ghost outlined tank ( basically a translucent tankmodel with a white outline).

- showing the player 1, 2 or 3 alternative cover positions he could have better chosen within a radius of 50 meters of where his tank was killed.

 

WG can do War Stories, so they could code this into the game as well I think. At least this would give new players a little more insight. 



Xenith_Inc #6 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:52 AM

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Agree on most of the above. 

Accelerated crew training for battle limits is good, however the killer is having to drop 25% XP to retrain a crew. Moving a crew from a tier 1 to tier 2 tank costs 25k XP to get them to 100%, yet the tank packages are like 3k to elite that tank, meaning crews are ready to move up before theyre 100%, leaving many at tier 4 with no skills. 

 

How about:

 

  • Tank retraining XP should scale with number of crew skills - 1000XP penalty per crew skill. This is nothing for good players, but everything for new players. 
  • Unlock all tier 2 tech tree stock tanks so players can get a feel for different playstyles. Currently they can only play lights at tier 1.
  • Incentives to keep playing like warchests at 100, 200, 500, 1000 etc games. 
  • A single multinational crew member with 4 stock skills (SS, BIA, Camo, Repairs) that can be dropped into any tank below tier 4 at 100% for no cost, however never gains additional crew XP.

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SpartanFire71 #7 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:54 AM

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Unfortunately, I believe the set up is to encourage free xp.  I don't think it would change much to nix that.  I really believe war stories was a good way to go to give a crew skill for free.  It's definitely tougher for lower tiers now because there is just not the numbers at those levels compared to when X1 started.  When I started the Czech line, there was no way I was running a tier 3 with no skills knowing I'd be fighting many 4s and 5s along with the powerful premiums you mentioned.  My best advice for a brand new tanker is stay at tier 2 for as long as you can stand it.  Put 2-3 skills on a crew, then move up.  Ensuring that the tier 2s mostly see tier 2s could help.  I stayed at tier 2 on Czech line to put maybe two skills, then jumped to 6.  I also shot gold rounds at every one of the OP premiums, but that's because I knew the danger of not getting them out the game.  I also had the silver, which a new player will not.  Ultimately, at the end of the day though, if a new player becomes addicted to the game, butt beats won't matter as it didn't with us.  We fought through it.

There are still some severe frustrations, but I still love to play.

 

 

 


Xenith_Inc #8 Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostSpartanFire71, on 07 March 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

My best advice for a brand new tanker is stay at tier 2 for as long as you can stand it.  Put 2-3 skills on a crew, then move up. 

 

Essentially: block yourself from 80% of the game.

 

300k XP at tier 2 would be a nightmare. 


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SpartanFire71 #9 Posted 07 March 2018 - 11:13 AM

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View PostXenith_Inc, on 07 March 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

 

Essentially: block yourself from 80% of the game.

 

300k XP at tier 2 would be a nightmare. 

 

Unless you are getting beat worse at the higher tiers.  Is it that much xp?  I thought it was 20k each for the first 4 skills? What happened to me early on, I sped through tiers thinking the next tank is better because it killed me.  I fell into the free xp trap for a bit.  I just see a very bad situation for tier 3s at the moment.  You will be in tier 4 and 5 battles most of the time.  Tier 2s only see tier 3s, so spending time there is somewhat safer for a brand new tanker.  You also get many tier 2 matches.  At the same time, if a new tanker learns at tier 5, they will probably end up way better for it.  Just seems it is harder to learn at tier 5 seeing tier 6 and 7.  

There are still some severe frustrations, but I still love to play.

 

 

 


Dickymoe #10 Posted 07 March 2018 - 11:27 AM

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A simple solution would be to add ai controlled enemy tanks from tier 1-4. Matchmaking would create teams of human players vs enemy ai teams. No more seal clubbing of new players.

SirBert007 #11 Posted 07 March 2018 - 11:53 AM

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great ideas. but the big question is whether WG would be bothered to do anything to improve things.. bottom to top tiers all have issues

Jodmeister #12 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:07 PM

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Need to reduce equipment costs on low tier tanks; getting camo/binocs etc are often vastly more expensive than the tank itself, and new players have very little silver.

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Xenith_Inc #13 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:12 PM

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View PostSpartanFire71, on 07 March 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

 

Unless you are getting beat worse at the higher tiers.  Is it that much xp?  I thought it was 20k each for the first 4 skills?

 

Oh ho ho no. 100k each for the first 4 skills. 200k each for the next 4.

 

If you move up a tier immediately every time you elite a tank, you don't start levelling perks/skills until about level 5 where you need about 40 - 50k XP to elite the tank. You then go into tier 6 with a 75% crew with 15% repairs, leaving you massively unprepared.

 

EDIT:

 

I went back to tier 4 for the On Track: China event. Free XP'd to the M5A1 Stuart.

 

It took 29 games in that tank pulling super uni stats, to go from 75% trained to 18% Camo. This was with an on track op and string theory. That's averaging 1500XP a game. When I was new I probably averaged under 500XP per game. I can look at my LOLTraktor stats. 23 games, average damage 32. M2Medium - 19 games, average damage 76.

 

A new player getting 400XP per game needs to play over 300 games in the same tier 4 tank before they get the 125k XP needed to 100% a skill. It's frustrating.

 

Even a crew XP modifier per tier would do wonders. 


Edited by Xenith_Inc, 07 March 2018 - 12:22 PM.

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LacqueredBacon #14 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:13 PM

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This is a tough one.  Over the years, I have given this much thought but I have a hard time finding good solutions.

 

Your ideas of PMM are good but limited once you get to tier V (as you mentioned).  I also thought it might be beneficial to limit the number of players at the lower tiers.  There is less going on so more time to learn tactics and awareness.  It would something like: 8v8 at tier II and III, 11v11 at tier 4.  Tier 5 gets the PMM but it is the first tier at 15v15.  And all premiums get regular MM. The additional benefit is since there are less tanks at these lower tiers, it could help dissuade players from staying at those lower tiers.


 

Speaking of premiums, as bad as some of the very low tier tanks are, the ones in the middle tiers are worse.  I am looking straight at you Rampanzer.  It should be placed at tier VI at the very least.  There were a couple videos posted in another thread that highlighted the problem.  In both, the players drove straight and simply locked on the nearest tank.  They both got 7+ kills without any effort at all.  That is demoralizing to everyone else.


 

Crew skills is a big problem but I am not sure it is for the new player.  The education about crews is so poor that most do not understand the importance until much later.  They made the decision to not continue with this game long before crew skills is on their radar screen.


 

Artillery:  Remove artillery below tier 5.  It is frustrating to everyone at all tiers but especially for new players who don't even know what hit them.  The only difference is their reaction is to simply quit because of the mechanics.  Again, this goes to simplifying the mechanics of the game during battle:  one less thing to try to understand.  I also don't think playing artillery at lower levels is beneficial.  A new player playing artillery learns a completely different set of tactics and that does not translate to any other classes.  And quite frankly, artillery can be boring because made battle can go the same way.  You don't want new players experience to be boring.


 

Lastly, at low tiers only, it may be beneficial to have an additional post-battle screen that gives more information on how experience is calculated or explains why one player had better numbers than another player.  This education would/could show the benefit of spotting, assist damage, movement, etc.  A very common tactic at all levels is to snipe.  Sniping, like artillery, is static and can be boring.  Showing the benefits of trying to be more active in the battle might help.


Edited by LacqueredBacon, 07 March 2018 - 12:16 PM.


 


SpartanFire71 #15 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:21 PM

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I guess the thread about the guy quitted that seem to prompt this thread was removed.  I forget the guys name, but if he is reading, I stunk at the M36 Jackson early in.  I thought it was a tier 6 TD, so I would really do better.  I was lucky tp get 1-2 pens because of not knowing the spotting and positions that offer good cover on top of fall back areas if needed.  I gave it several battles, but I hated and sold the tank.  When I gained much more experience, I 3 marked it.  It still doesn't have the best stats, but it was a way better experience after I knew a bunch more about the game.  So, if you come back, take time to learn.  I laugh because I remember telling my Dad (he was 77 at the time) that the game and that the M4 Sherman is awesome.  I ran it a bunch with little experience, but was getting "average" damage.  At the time, that was awesome to me. 

There are still some severe frustrations, but I still love to play.

 

 

 


BigWahala #16 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:22 PM

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If you have more than 5000 battles, you should be restricted to the amount of tier 1-3 games you can play each month

SpartanFire71 #17 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:27 PM

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View PostBigWahala, on 07 March 2018 - 06:22 AM, said:

If you have more than 5000 battles, you should be restricted to the amount of tier 1-3 games you can play each month

 

It's hard to put a number on it.  I didn't see my first recent blue star until about 5000.  I admit to being a slow learner, but are people really that good at 5000?

There are still some severe frustrations, but I still love to play.

 

 

 


LacqueredBacon #18 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:27 PM

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I think this needs its own thread but one problem related to skills is crew training in general...not training for new players.  I am talking about having to got to low tiers to train a new crew.

 

I am not (obviously) a new player but this is probably the most frustrating aspect of the game.  I have unlocked 6 tier 10 tanks that I have not bothered to buy to play because I don't have a crew to put into it.  Yes, I can put the crew from the tier IX tank into it but in all those cases, I like the tier IX and don't want to sell it.


 

What does this have to do with new players?  Well, it means that experiences players are FORCED to play low tiers to train new crews.  And what tanks do they take into battle?  The overowered premiums because of the xp bonuses so that the crew can be trained quicker.


 

It would be very beneficial to simplify the experience for new players as much as possible and that includes getting experiences players out of the cue.


 


 



 


DUBIOUSrepair #19 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:29 PM

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Level the playing field for tiers 1 through 3?
How about silver and xp stay the same, but skills and perks are disabled at low tiers.
The xp earned still applies and develops the crew in the low tier tank, just keep the skills and perks inactive until tier the crew is moved to tier 4 or better.

Skill4AUT #20 Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:29 PM

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Why should new players be specially treated! We had to go the hard way as well! 
No matter if you started on PC or console. The new players even have the opportunity to play and learn on the console. 
Everyone who plays WoT also has internet and can, like us (the old school) in the internet make smart with regard to weak spots, camouflage, sight, etc.

That's why I say "NO" to this topic. 

Those who want to learn can do it without a newbie protection.






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