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Matchmaking and Weight

Matchmaking Weight

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Big Llama Poop #1 Posted 12 March 2018 - 03:50 PM

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What are the rules to vehicle weight among teams?  Seeing as it is very common for one team to outweigh the other by nearly 40% at times, what causes this?  Example: One team has 6 tier tens, 9 tier nines.  And the other team has 10 tier tens, and 5 tier nines.

BrogueOne #2 Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:16 PM

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Here’s a post written by MaxChaos24 in regards to the updated Light tank MM: http://forum-console...nk-matchmaking/

It has a nifty chart with detailed information on MM for almost every tank.  There’s also at least one other article by Max with details on MM and balance weights but I’m not sure where it is.... Maybe look in the Guides forum or Newcomer’s forum.

Big Llama Poop #3 Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:18 PM

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View PostBrogueOne, on 12 March 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

Here’s a post written by MaxChaos24 in regards to the updated Light tank MM: http://forum-console...nk-matchmaking/

It has a nifty chart with detailed information on MM for almost every tank. There’s also at least one other article by Max with details on MM and balance weights but I’m not sure where it is.... Maybe look in the Guides forum or Newcomer’s forum.

 

Whats seen in game does not follow any of the guides.  Guides show its supposed to be with 6%, but plenty of games are a complete flop of a match up.

BadDad61 #4 Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:44 PM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 12 March 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

Whats seen in game does not follow any of the guides.  Guides show its supposed to be with 6%, but plenty of games are a complete flop of a match up.

 

A screen shot would be very helpful.

It is difficult to help when we can't see what you are facing

 

Remember, tank tier and tank weight are not the same


Edited by BadDad61, 12 March 2018 - 04:46 PM.


BrogueOne #5 Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:58 PM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 12 March 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

 

Whats seen in game does not follow any of the guides.  Guides show its supposed to be with 6%, but plenty of games are a complete flop of a match up.

I personally don’t complain about MM but I will agree that it can be puzzling at times.  The MM guides state that the formula is followed “whenever possible” and it basically means that if the MM can’t make a suitably balanced matchup that it will throw together it’s “best guess”.

 

I don’t claim to know everything about MM and I’m not qualified to offer solutions.  The differences between good MM and bad MM really depend on the individual player’s perception of it.  But, I will say that I like the MM system in WoWs.... in WoWs the teams tend to be 1-1 with an equal match for every player.  If there’s 5 BB’s on your team, there’s probably 5 on the other team.  Any differences in the numbers of certain classes on teams will only be different by just one ship, so if there’s 5 BB’s on your team and 6 on the other, the MM gives you an extra DD or CA.

 

 



Beta582 #6 Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:05 PM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 12 March 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

What are the rules to vehicle weight among teams?  Seeing as it is very common for one team to outweigh the other by nearly 40% at times, what causes this?  Example: One team has 6 tier tens, 9 tier nines.  And the other team has 10 tier tens, and 5 tier nines.

 

For starters, the only time there could be anything remotely close to a 40% weight difference would at incredibly low population time with a ton or large platoons. Otherwise, this simply doesnt happen. I usually see around the 2-10% range of weight difference.

 

Second, I had actually talked with Max about the current vehicle weights and Wargamings official policy is to not make that information public anymore. The pre-tier 10 light charts and values are still available however. Just not current ones.

 

Third, the matchmaker only cares about vehicle weight of vehicles within a pre-determined battle tier spread. It doesn't care about individual vehicle tier, vehicle type, or equipped packages. It only cares about platoons in that they are all treated as the highest tier vehicle type in the platoon.

 

I hope this answers your questions and if there is any more information you would like to know, please feel free to ask.


 

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Big Llama Poop #7 Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:50 AM

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View PostBadDad61, on 12 March 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

A screen shot would be very helpful.

It is difficult to help when we can't see what you are facing

 

Remember, tank tier and tank weight are not the same

 

View PostBeta582, on 12 March 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

For starters, the only time there could be anything remotely close to a 40% weight difference would at incredibly low population time with a ton or large platoons. Otherwise, this simply doesnt happen. I usually see around the 2-10% range of weight difference.

 

Second, I had actually talked with Max about the current vehicle weights and Wargamings official policy is to not make that information public anymore. The pre-tier 10 light charts and values are still available however. Just not current ones.

 

Third, the matchmaker only cares about vehicle weight of vehicles within a pre-determined battle tier spread. It doesn't care about individual vehicle tier, vehicle type, or equipped packages. It only cares about platoons in that they are all treated as the highest tier vehicle type in the platoon.

 

I hope this answers your questions and if there is any more information you would like to know, please feel free to ask.

 

 

Team 1:  [IX]    5

              [VIII]   5

              [VII]    5

 

Team 2:  [IX]    9

              [VIII]   3

               [VII]   2

               [VI]    1

 

And by using the vehicle weights provided by WOT console (assuming tier 9 light tanks are also worth 72) https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/mm-explained/#3

 

Team 1: 755.52

Team 2: 876.60

 

Team 2 has 16.03% more vehicle weight, which may not seem like much but when considering health pools, and the difference in top tier heavy tanks, this match was less balanced than CNN with Don Lemon.


Edited by Big Llama Poop, 13 March 2018 - 04:18 AM.


pilotguy79 #8 Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:05 AM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 13 March 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

 

Team 1:  [IX]    5

              [VIII]   5

              [VII]    5

 

Team 2:  [IX]    9

              [VIII]   3

               [VII]   2

               [VI]    1

Ouch that’s some sh#t mm. But... it’s your isp, working as intended, git gud. Oh your tinfoil hat to tight.

pick your poison



Sovietdeath #9 Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:00 AM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 12 March 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

 

Team 1:  [IX]    5

              [VIII]   5

              [VII]    5

 

Team 2:  [IX]    9

              [VIII]   3

               [VII]   2

               [VI]    1

 

And by using the vehicle weights provided by WOT console (assuming tier 9 light tanks are also worth 72) https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/mm-explained/#3

 

Team 1: 755.52

Team 2: 876.60

 

Team 2 has 16.03% more vehicle weight, which may not seem like much but when considering health pools, and the difference in top tier heavy tanks, this match was less balanced than CNN with Don Lemon.

 

How the game calculated the difference....

Total Weight of game 1632.12

Difference of Team Weights (876.6-755.52= 121.6)

% Difference = 121.6/1632.12= .074 = 7.4%

 

Where do you get 16% from?



NightOfDeaths #10 Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:03 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 12 March 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

 

How the game calculated the difference....

Total Weight of game 1632.12

Difference of Team Weights (876.6-755.52= 121.6)

% Difference = 121.6/1632.12= .074 = 7.4%

 

Where do you get 16% from?

 

Still above 6%.

 

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Sovietdeath #11 Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:07 AM

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View PostNightOfDeaths, on 13 March 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

 

Still above 6%.

 

GG WG Population

You do realize the MM clearly says it will relax rules to make a match after a bit, there is no hard percentage it won't drop to after long enough

 

But I'm simply pointing out it's not as bad as he is making it out to be

 

 

I do want better hard MM rules though, but it does follow it's current set-up well even though it is a poor set-up to begin with



Big Llama Poop #12 Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:07 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 13 March 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

 

How the game calculated the difference....

Total Weight of game 1632.12

Difference of Team Weights (876.6-755.52= 121.6)

% Difference = 121.6/1632.12= .074 = 7.4%

 

Where do you get 16% from?

 

Team 2 with 876.6 is 16.03% greater than 755.52

Sovietdeath #13 Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:12 AM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 13 March 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

 

Team 2 with 876.6 is 16.03% greater than 755.52

The problem is doing it between teams isn't how MM calculates it since it doesn't math both directions correctly because the number can be 16.03 or 13.81 depending on whichever team you base it on

 

By basing it on the Total Weight vs the difference you will always get 7.42% 

 



Big Llama Poop #14 Posted 13 March 2018 - 06:02 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 13 March 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

The problem is doing it between teams isn't how MM calculates it since it doesn't math both directions correctly because the number can be 16.03 or 13.81 depending on whichever team you base it on

 

By basing it on the Total Weight vs the difference you will always get 7.42% 

 

 

Even at that, the difference there with armor and vehicle hp was pretty bad.

Big Llama Poop #15 Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:51 AM

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But in this one here, there is not one single platoon (which is another issue that creates extremely unbalanced matches).  A swap of a couple vehicles could have easily made this an even game.

Sovietdeath #16 Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:56 AM

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View PostBig Llama Poop, on 13 March 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

 

Even at that, the difference there with armor and vehicle hp was pretty bad.

Those have nothing to do with the MM system at all



Kebabsaurus Rex #17 Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:00 AM

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I have seen too many of these types of games recently, regardless of platoons.

Big Llama Poop #18 Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:45 PM

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Even thought the 7/5/3 format has some issues, it would be a massive improvement to what console has in place at the moment.

SlagInGristle #19 Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:08 PM

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Casino mm. 
:bush:

SlagInGristle #20 Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:08 PM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 13 March 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

Those have nothing to do with the MM system at all

 

you like the mm?
:bush:





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