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WOT on track for World of Light tanks!

lights light tanks op overpower lights overpower

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steelheadclan #61 Posted 24 March 2018 - 04:11 PM

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View PostIconicNemesis, on 24 March 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

What a time to be alive to see threads like this now, feels only like yesterday when lights had +4 MM and people laughed as they one shot them in there Jagpanther II 

 

Then the big lights bang happened and all of a sudden there was another class of tank that could  kill others tanks and gave the sad people even more to complain about. 

So sad:(



Juke Ninja #62 Posted 24 March 2018 - 04:36 PM

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"Arty+TD+Heavy can't kill 2 Lights because Lights are OP on open maps."

 

Is that what I just read?

 

Good Players + Teamwork > Bad Players No Teamwork 

^^^Especially if the Map favors the playstyle of the "Good Players" tanks.

 

OP, Your tanks were at the mercy of the map you were on (except for Arty, dont know why you threw him in there)...

 

Going against players you say know their tanks and the map...

 

You Lost????

OF COURSE YOU LOST!



Inhuska #63 Posted 24 March 2018 - 06:57 PM

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View PostSanlanthus, on 24 March 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

 

Sounds like he or she needs a hug and a good cry with other players that have been abused by the light tank drivers.

 

Yup. Agreeing with you.

 

View PostMegaB0B0, on 24 March 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

 

I wish i got the answer: you cant take away what lights does best: speed and mobility and smaller target size/mass, they go no amor already, so the only thing you can take away is their fire power. The reason why F-16 fighter was so successful was because it is a fast and agile plane that packs a lot of firepower on demand it was essentially a light tank of aviation. The marketing of F-16 is get the plane and get an airforce, means it can do anything. 

Same goes for a light tank in WOT, fast agile and packs a lot of firepower, it can do anything: kill all four types of tanks in the game and does it effectively.

Therefore only way to balance without making them easier to hit as just worst off than medium tanks is to reduce their fire power even further. 

 

I guess i don't need to contribute as others have said it before. Light tanks are good as they are now. They don't have a lot of armor thus making them vulrenable. If top tier lights guns are to be nerfed from what they are now, their flanking abilities will decrease a lot which i myself don't see as a good thing. What would a person do with light tanks in small maps full of heavies, TDs and mediums then? 

 

As we all can see you have problems with lights i suggest that try them yourself more. Try to understand how different lights play. 


 

View PostUnknown WoT-player, on 31 March 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Tactics for the round? Through the middle and straight to the garage. 

 

 


Purcellmeister #64 Posted 24 March 2018 - 07:42 PM

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It sounds to me that the OP just needs to learn to lead his targets better.

pr0fit0fcanabis #65 Posted 24 March 2018 - 08:37 PM

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View PostMegaB0B0, on 24 March 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

One game to illustrate why WOT is fast becoming World of Lights

 

I just finished a game of in my slow as hell T95 in a team destruction battle in the wide open new map Nomonhan, this map is the playground of lights, mediums but not so for heavies and TD, especially those with poor gun depression.

 

We lost and I got four kills, holding a whole front all by myself and two lights at the start against four heavies and TDs and two mediums. I managed to shoot and kill the TD, Two heavies and a medium, but i was unable to shoot the light that killed me, the one on the enemy team, t49 with 5 kills. Even with 4 kills, I was third in damage done behind our T49 that clearly perform well. The enemy team's top two are lights, the lycan and the T49. By the end of the game, the Lycan and T49 were the one that picked on the last three tanks on our side, me and a RhmB as well as the top damage scoring arty. None of us are a match against two of the light tanks, I got killed by being disabled in my track and dies by hits on my butt. the RhmB can’t do much as it fail to shoot at my killer and had to back away after fail shorts. The arty was able to splash damage and kill the low health T49 while it tries to kill the RhmB, but it doesn’t have such luck against the Lycan’s full clip. Both tanks were taken out by the Auto loader. 8 tanks taken out by enemy lights, more than half. If that doesnt yell this tank type is OP, i dont know what does.

 

Results speaks for itself and backs up to my claim: High tier lights at open maps decide the battle, it renders Arty and TD (even slow firing heavies like Japanese russian chinese) powerless simply because it cant hit their target while they move. Mediums in the past are bigger in mass and less mobile in turns not to mention slower, which render them able to be killed by skilled players who knows how to lead the shorts.

 

Therefore since high tier lights came on, it dominates many of the open maps, you can effectively guess which side is going to win soon as you saw the performances of the lights players. Once the lights on any one side died out and the mediums which would be second line in countering lights also died out, remaining tanks types can almost sit and wait for their doom against enemy lights.

 

Those who can drive lights or for the matter, mediums can always argue it is not about this and that, that lights are not Over powered. But fact remains that a skilled player in Heavy, Tank Destroyer and Arty cant not over come skilled lights player with their skill and knowledge of their machines means Lights are given a natural advantage on the battlefield.

 

Game balance is about letting archetype of tanks balance against each other in gameplay, it is fine to have one or two type of character in a given archetype to be a bit more OP, but that is by comparative against one other archetype or in a selective situation. Not a condition that can render Three out to FIVE archetypes ineffective against one particular archetype. That is not good game design. If one use a rock paper scissors comparison: introduced a four element Sword that can defeat Rock and Paper only scissor can counter it but not defeat it.

 

Lights on their own against other lights is perfectly fine, even against mediums are fun to watch, but not against the other three tank types, thats almost slaughter, even at one v two scenario as demonstrated time and again.

 

The game as it is is pushing players to be good at only lights and mediums, that is effectively making players stop playing 3/5 of other tank types simply cause they wont be fun to play down the track as more and more people force to picks up lights or mediums.

 

That is not a good thing, this is a game play game design issue, simply because this game should not be turn in to another fast pace reaction centric shooter.

 

A solution to rebalance them and not take away their fast and nimble character is to reduce lights ammo damage by 1/3, lower the accuracy in general as lights in mobile should not be accurate in the first place for realistic purposes (LOL), plus reduce their ammo count (it is a light, cant carry that much, right? Somethings gonna give to get those speed and mobility). Good players will still be rather good just as any other tank type, but it will reduce their superiority in terms of over all impact.

You get 4 kills and a bunch of  damage and light are op? K



Cheetah1728 #66 Posted 24 March 2018 - 09:06 PM

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The only real complaint I have with lights is their power to weight ratios. It wasn't so bad in the past, you had to use terrain and knowledge to reach and maintain speed. Now they have more power than previously and probably resistances. This ignores their firepower changes. Some got it better and worse than others.

But my biggest gripe with lights is how easy it is to rocket around and all over the map. The 13 90 used to have 350 hp and reach a modest speed, now it has 470 and blasts over terrain. Still can't traverse well without handbrake, but hey. T-54 lightweight a cool 1000 because it desperately needed it. Don't even remember what it used to be, but it couldn't have been more than 700. Recently just got the MT-25, bone stock I figured it'd be meh. 600 hp and it blasts around at 45-55 easily, what's the next package? 740. It wasn't enough at 24 hp/t it now has 29.5 and pegs at 55-60 nonstop. It doesn't slow down for nothing!

Meanwhile I later pull out my 4 tier 10 mediums. TVP T50/51, AMX 30 b, Obj 430, 121. The 121 is obviously a gutless rock on any incline. The 30 b struggles to move/change direction. The closest is the TVP, but it's huge and has 1000 hp so obviously it'll be the closest.

I don't really mind their firepower changes or stealth, but their mobility is like they took something quick/agile and gave it booster rockets that don't run out. I don't even wanna know what it's like with horsepower boosts like octane/oil/removed governers. I guess the catch here is, if you don't know how to drive your tank you can easily end up in a bad spot or dead from a dip in terrain. If you know how to drive and use the handbrake to further enhance this, oh boy.... it's a rush.

Regarding big slow tanks and lights? Dusted the maus off the other day. Don't play it nearly as much as I used to since the buffs since it now feels like easy mode and is boring. Not because "gud tanks r boring" which I sometimes assign to stuff like the E3/5, but rather cruise controlling at 10-20kph gets old after 1570+ games at the time of useage drop. Had a T-100 LT get in right beside me, and you can imagine how worthless I felt. I scraped them off and shot em once eventually, but I still died because 1 vs 8-10 is bad times for any tank.

But yeah, long story short I don't hate em persay, but feel their engine power makes them obscene and I don't know how to fix it without completely ruining em. They do need to move and scout, but they feel like their breaking laws of physics and the crews must be mush.

CivilWarGoat #67 Posted 24 March 2018 - 09:20 PM

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View PostMegaB0B0, on 24 March 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

One game to illustrate why WOT is fast becoming World of Lights

 

I just finished a game of in my slow as hell T95 in a team destruction battle in the wide open new map Nomonhan, this map is the playground of lights, mediums but not so for heavies and TD, especially those with poor gun depression.

 

We lost and I got four kills, holding a whole front all by myself and two lights at the start against four heavies and TDs and two mediums. I managed to shoot and kill the TD, Two heavies and a medium, but i was unable to shoot the light that killed me, the one on the enemy team, t49 with 5 kills. Even with 4 kills, I was third in damage done behind our T49 that clearly perform well. The enemy team's top two are lights, the lycan and the T49. By the end of the game, the Lycan and T49 were the one that picked on the last three tanks on our side, me and a RhmB as well as the top damage scoring arty. None of us are a match against two of the light tanks, I got killed by being disabled in my track and dies by hits on my butt. the RhmB can’t do much as it fail to shoot at my killer and had to back away after fail shorts. The arty was able to splash damage and kill the low health T49 while it tries to kill the RhmB, but it doesn’t have such luck against the Lycan’s full clip. Both tanks were taken out by the Auto loader. 8 tanks taken out by enemy lights, more than half. If that doesnt yell this tank type is OP, i dont know what does.

 

Results speaks for itself and backs up to my claim: High tier lights at open maps decide the battle, it renders Arty and TD (even slow firing heavies like Japanese russian chinese) powerless simply because it cant hit their target while they move. Mediums in the past are bigger in mass and less mobile in turns not to mention slower, which render them able to be killed by skilled players who knows how to lead the shorts.

 

Therefore since high tier lights came on, it dominates many of the open maps, you can effectively guess which side is going to win soon as you saw the performances of the lights players. Once the lights on any one side died out and the mediums which would be second line in countering lights also died out, remaining tanks types can almost sit and wait for their doom against enemy lights.

 

Those who can drive lights or for the matter, mediums can always argue it is not about this and that, that lights are not Over powered. But fact remains that a skilled player in Heavy, Tank Destroyer and Arty cant not over come skilled lights player with their skill and knowledge of their machines means Lights are given a natural advantage on the battlefield.

 

Game balance is about letting archetype of tanks balance against each other in gameplay, it is fine to have one or two type of character in a given archetype to be a bit more OP, but that is by comparative against one other archetype or in a selective situation. Not a condition that can render Three out to FIVE archetypes ineffective against one particular archetype. That is not good game design. If one use a rock paper scissors comparison: introduced a four element Sword that can defeat Rock and Paper only scissor can counter it but not defeat it.

 

Lights on their own against other lights is perfectly fine, even against mediums are fun to watch, but not against the other three tank types, thats almost slaughter, even at one v two scenario as demonstrated time and again.

 

The game as it is is pushing players to be good at only lights and mediums, that is effectively making players stop playing 3/5 of other tank types simply cause they wont be fun to play down the track as more and more people force to picks up lights or mediums.

 

That is not a good thing, this is a game play game design issue, simply because this game should not be turn in to another fast pace reaction centric shooter.

 

A solution to rebalance them and not take away their fast and nimble character is to reduce lights ammo damage by 1/3, lower the accuracy in general as lights in mobile should not be accurate in the first place for realistic purposes (LOL), plus reduce their ammo count (it is a light, cant carry that much, right? Somethings gonna give to get those speed and mobility). Good players will still be rather good just as any other tank type, but it will reduce their superiority in terms of over all impact.

 

you complain that your slow big no gun depression tank did bad on a open map.  To bad.  Not all maps suit all tank types.  Try playing arty on a city map or a light tank on a city.  Deal with.  Get better and adjust your play style to the strengths of your tank with the limitations of what map your on

El Materdor43 #68 Posted 24 March 2018 - 09:49 PM

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View Postpr0fit0fcanabis, on 24 March 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

You get 4 kills and a bunch of  damage and light are op? K

That was my point to the OP on the first page. It is a teammate issue


   

 

                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                

 


I Denizen I #69 Posted 24 March 2018 - 10:58 PM

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The new light tanks are too good, far far to good at shutting the map down early.

 

They are able to get across map and into prime spotting positions before half of the Opfor has cleared the spawn point, and god help you if you go try force them out of them points so your team can deploy properly, you will get annihilated by the opposing team soon as you get lit up on top of them, because usually there is zero cover from them.

 

Anyone who claims otherwise is on crack, end of discussion. And nice attempts at stawmen with "its better than world of TDS." this game has never ever been world of TD's, most played tanks are heavies by a significant margin. 

 

Nice to see all the usual suspects doing the same tired crap to shut the discussion down. 



Meatballsaws #70 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:14 PM

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Light tonkz are stealing our precious bodily fluids!!

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Saerbhreathach #71 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:19 PM

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View PostI Denizen I, on 24 March 2018 - 07:28 PM, said:

The new light tanks are too good, far far to good at shutting the map down early.

 

They are able to get across map and into prime spotting positions before half of the Opfor has cleared the spawn point, and god help you if you go try force them out of them points so your team can deploy properly, you will get annihilated by the opposing team soon as you get lit up on top of them, because usually there is zero cover from them.

 

Anyone who claims otherwise is on crack, end of discussion. And nice attempts at stawmen with "its better than world of TDS." this game has never ever been world of TD's, most played tanks are heavies by a significant margin. 

 

Nice to see all the usual suspects doing the same tired crap to shut the discussion down. 

 

 

Scouts have always been able to control SECTIONS of maps, the only difference now is there's more people playing scouts. And out of all those scouts there's only a select few that are truely capable of controlling a good portion of the map for extended periods of time.

 

Scouts have always been able to hit key locations in a hurry. But again, there's more people playing them so you're seeing them more often. It's the job of the scout on your team to counter scout the red scout as well as the mediums on your team. If your team allows X scout to control X position then that's on your team not the scout.

 

Red teams heavies, mediums and TD's all move just as fast as your team's. So unless they have warp drives installed on their tanks, it's only red scouts you have to deal with and they ain't "annihilating" anyone right away.

 

There's been absolutely no "strawman arguments". There's in fact been educated replies for the most part to the claim that scouts are "op". Facts like scouts typically have the worst gun handling stats, they have absolutely no armor in most cases, their HP pools are low, the have low dpm. To counter this they have camo, view range and speed... That's it. Scouts require THE MOST amount of skill to do well in, there's a reason for that. Cause their the "easiest" to kill.

 

Anyone that disagrees with that and claims that their "op" is on crack. As you put it....



Wroclaw #72 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:21 PM

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View Postjprs201024, on 24 March 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

on Thursday, with my M7 (tier 5), in a battle I easily destroyed two tier 7 (a T29 and a T28 HTC)!

 

no one does that unless the tier 7's were completely ignoring them

Neurotic Cell #73 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:22 PM

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View PostWroclaw, on 24 March 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

no one does that unless the tier 7's were completely ignoring them

 

 

Or unless “completely destroyed” means hitting them for their last 50 hit points.


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CivilWarGoat #74 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:23 PM

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Whine whine whine.  Somebody beat in a video game.  I don't recall seeing a threads where light tank drivers complain about getting clipped by deathstars and other super heavies.  This threads should be locked.  They are all the same. I play big slow big alpha tanks and don't like being killed by somebody who won't sit still in front of me.

SpartanFire71 #75 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:31 PM

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View PostCivilWarGoat, on 24 March 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

..... This threads should be locked.  They are all the same. I play big slow big alpha tanks and don't like being killed by somebody who won't sit still in front of me.

 

So how boring would that be?  :facepalm:

Arty players hate the game.  Gotta love being able to not use the full map because you must be "arty safe!" 

 


Mr Crowley ll #76 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:42 PM

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View PostCivilWarGoat, on 24 March 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

you complain that your slow big no gun depression tank did bad on a open map.  To bad.  Not all maps suit all tank types.  Try playing arty on a city map or a light tank on a city.  Deal with.  Get better and adjust your play style to the strengths of your tank with the limitations of what map your on

 

Yep, getting worked over by lights on an open map every once in a while is a small price to pay all the closed in maps we have. 



 


deadman1921 #77 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:49 PM

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Yeah I want to complain that heavies with slow turrets are able to hit my light whilst bouncing and jigging all over the place!!

 

And dangit the freaking derp guns only take one rng lucky shot!! 

 

Getting old fast! Worse than arty!!

 

 

 

 


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MockCrescent323 #78 Posted 25 March 2018 - 12:40 AM

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As mostly a light tank player I will say the high number of lights can make it challenging at times, especially to get early spots off without losing any hitpoints due to yolotards that just go all in at the sight of another light. However most of them have no clue what they are doing, so they are quite easy to deal with.

I think this light tank meta will change as potatos get tired of dying in the first few minutes and a new shiny tank line comes out.

 

As a heavy, medium or turreted td it is really not a problem to deal with lights as long as you do not isolate yourself from your team. Frontally heavy armored turretless  tds will just have to learn to get stuck in and support their team earlier so they do not become easy prey when their entire team is dead as they camped the back

 


Edited by MockCrescent323, 25 March 2018 - 12:42 AM.





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