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Does RNG have too much influence over the results of a match?

RNG Blowout losses and wins

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Poll: RNG (134 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 50 battles in order to participate this poll.

Does RNG have too much influence?

  1. Absolutely. (92 votes [68.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.66%

  2. No - it's just fine. (30 votes [22.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.39%

  3. It depends on the situation. (12 votes [8.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.96%

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Xenith_Inc #121 Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:06 AM

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Play lower tiers.

 

RNG has less effect with more datapoints (shots) which smooth out distributions.

 

You'll feel the effects of RNG much more at higher tiers where you may fire 6 times per minute vs at tier 5 when you might fire 26 times. 

 

My Type T-34 probably sends more shots into space than any tier X tank, but for each one that hits the moon, there are 10 that hit the target.

 

Aim RNG is fine and damage RNG is fine, pen RNG could be more reliable, maybe +/-10%.


Edited by Xenith_Inc, 10 April 2018 - 11:07 AM.

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Black RL #122 Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:12 AM

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RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

Not saying it affects the fun had in the game, or that it's not part of other sports or life, just pointing out that it's an irrefutable fact, so let's prove it.

 

According to Wargaming wiki we have the following Battle Mechanics:

 

"Every shot you take is dispersed randomly around the center of your aiming reticle, i.e. you will not necessarily hit exactly where you aimed."

"Penetration values displayed for a gun/shell combination are average values. The actual penetration value is randomized by up to +/- 25% around the average value. Randomization occurs on impact with the target, separately for each new shell you fire."

"Just like shell penetration, all shell damage is randomized by up to +/- 25%, regardless of shell type."

"When a module or crew member is hit, they do not necessarily take damage from the hit. Instead, most modules have a specific chance not to take damage. This is also referred to as a saving throw."

"Each time your engine gets hit, there is a chance that your tank catches fire."

 

There you have it folks, straight from the horse's mouth. Note that they use the word RANDOM and not some fancy word like some users would like to believe, this is RNG as in Random Number Generation.

 

Let's create a simple example, for example fire damage, let's say a tank has 20% chance of taking fire, let's put it in a simple bracket so we understand:

 

[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 ...... 100] fire starts if the number we get is between 1 and 20, this assures the 20% chance.

 

Now go to https://www.random.org/ and update the generator on the home page, min 1, max 100, press generate as many times as you want and see when you catch fire, should be at least some fun. Same can be done for accuracy, damage or other RNG factors, you just have to adapt the numbers.

 

Finally you just have to imagine scenarios inside the game, and there are plenty:

 

  • That shot that didn't kill the enemy and he ended up with a monster game
  • That shot that didn't kill the enemy and he killed you instead
  • That shot that missed and you wasted precious time (specially aggravating for tanks with long reload)
  • That shot that didn't stop the capping of the base
  • Etc....

 

Granted the opposite can happen, and if it happens it just further proves the point I'm trying to make, RNG can and will affect the outcome of games.

 

If you're ultra competitive and don't want anything other than pure skill involved in what decides who wins or loses, World of Tanks it's not for you.

 

My position? Just check my number of games, I love all that WOT offers for we to micro manage, be it RNG, teams, map, armor, penetration, etc, etc....

 

Have fun in the battlefield commander! o7

 

Edit: made the example simpler and more accurate


Gotta catch them all! ^^

 

My hateful 4: Food a p2w mechanism, New player experience vs veteran player, Are overpowered premium tanks p2w? and Why World of Tanks can't shake off being perceived as a p2w game. About RNG: RNG affects the outcome of games, here's why.

 

See what happens to your tank in real time when you use equipment, supplies or crew skills in tanks.gg


Otis Z Firefly #123 Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:40 AM

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You forgot the drop mic gif. ;)

 

Now that is confirmed, we can concentrate on bickering on whether the affect is too strong.:hiding:

 


Ordo ab Chao.

SandM9 #124 Posted 10 April 2018 - 04:29 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 09 April 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

I'm insulting nobody. You sarcastically asked for a guide for controlling RNG as if it wasn't possible. It's the entire point of the game since day 1, and it's been the same in all that time. I picked 3 ways you can manage RNG off the top of my head.

 

It's not some hidden thing. Angling, keeping undetected, waiting to shoot when you're fully aimed. Those are all ways you can manage RNG. That is literally the point of this entire game.  

I am glad you recognized the sarcasm. Please allow me to translate your answer to how I read it:

1) don't be a noob

2) don't be a noob

3) don't be a noob

so thanks for the advice.

P.s. I think I know how to aim.  You would think it would translate to more damage seeing how I aim so carefully, but no because RNG favors spamming rounds over aiming shots. 

View PostTocFanKe4, on 09 April 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

I think I've  been discussing the thread topic. A worthwhile discussion is the size of the effect. Dr Bodge sent me a message a while back about this. Basically you want some RNG to provide more exciting outcomes, and provide balancing on things like derp guns. But you don't want the RNG to be so high that it completely cancels out any skill. If RNG was too high guns wouldn't balance right because many more tanks would high roll one shots. You want it to be like poker where you manage your odds and the reactions of the other players without it becoming a lottery. I've played 17k plus games with the game balanced for 25 percent each way. It seems to work fine for me. Lowering it a lot would cause some tanks become unbalanced, and the game would become simplistic with less risk to manage. 

 

 

So basically you understand the discussion but you don't care because, "It seems to work fine for me".  

All right everybody go home because none of our opinions of the game really matter because it works fine for him.  

 

Also I hear a lot of people talking like they've looked at the code for RNG in this game.  Please link.

I also see people talk like there is some kind if ballistic modelling or shell physics in this game and as far as I know there is none.  If there is, link please.


Welcome to the forums. Where you can call people stupid, just don't call them passive-aggressive.

 

 


redshadowrider #125 Posted 10 April 2018 - 04:35 PM

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View PostCivilWarGoat, on 09 April 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

 

its not a 50% swing.  It's only 25% from normal.  RNG is blamed for all the low rolls, mercy shots, and ghost shells.  Nobody blames RNG when they ammo rack somebody. Nobody plans on skillfully getting damage rolls of 125%.  

 

And RNG certainly affects the game but only because it's a part of it, and certainly not the governing feature of the game. It doesn't dictate how every game plays out.  In the example earlier given of 2 tanks left being a 1 shot.  If one or the other had played more skillfully they would have hitpoints to trade with at the end and RNG wouldn't be an issue.

 

Did you even read the whole sentence?  I acknowledge the + or -25% .    If I hit a target for +25 and then the same one for -25, that seems to be 50% to me between a good and bad shot.  If it were +20 to -20, I would think it might improve the game play and lengthen the games a little because not everyone is dying so quickly.  But I go back to my point where we don't really know the affect, because we have never tried it knowingly, or been able to.

Edited by redshadowrider, 10 April 2018 - 04:39 PM.

I'm just saying.....

sledge6301 #126 Posted 10 April 2018 - 04:52 PM

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Why do we beed RNG ?

 

Is there not just to many things that might go wrong and get players annoyed and leaving the game ?

 

Why is this a good thing for the game wot ?

 

My answers must be i dont get it at all i mean i get it but i dont think it in any way is making the game more played.

 

I know for sure my battlecount have dropped and it is not just the maps it is more the snapshoot ammorack always first hit,or a broken turret ring kind of have no repair for that.

 

But RNG is playing to much random for my taste.



TocFanKe4 #127 Posted 10 April 2018 - 05:36 PM

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View PostSandM9, on 10 April 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

I am glad you recognized the sarcasm. Please allow me to translate your answer to how I read it:

1) don't be a noob

2) don't be a noob

3) don't be a noob

so thanks for the advice.

P.s. I think I know how to aim.  You would think it would translate to more damage seeing how I aim so carefully, but no because RNG favors spamming rounds over aiming shots. 

So basically you understand the discussion but you don't care because, "It seems to work fine for me".  

All right everybody go home because none of our opinions of the game really matter because it works fine for him.  

 

Also I hear a lot of people talking like they've looked at the code for RNG in this game.  Please link.

I also see people talk like there is some kind if ballistic modelling or shell physics in this game and as far as I know there is none.  If there is, link please.

 

There are simple ways you can make it so that you aren't relying on RNG to win. It's unfortunate you see those as a personal attack on your playing ability. What you describe as "don't be a noob" are ways you play the game to put the odds in your favor and manage RNG. It's the entire point of this game since day one.

 

You sarcastically requested this information as if it didn't exist.  I provided it. But you just seem to just want to complain that the game isn't simple enough. No amount of examples about how RNG can be managed is enough to convince you that it is possible. But yes, be sure to keep putting words in my mouth that my arguments squash any discussion others may bring to the table. 

 

You seem to prefer a more simplistic game, while I prefer a game with the greater complexity that RNG provides. I'm not going ask them to reduce RNG or eliminate it because I find it's an enjoyable addition to this game. 

 

Also, here's a link to the battle mechanics you requested. This shows how RNG works for aiming if you scroll down to accuracy and dispersion

 

http://wiki.wargamin...attle_Mechanics


 

I'd gladly wait an extra minute for MM balance. 


CivilWarGoat #128 Posted 10 April 2018 - 06:03 PM

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View Postredshadowrider, on 10 April 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

 

Did you even read the whole sentence?  I acknowledge the + or -25% .    If I hit a target for +25 and then the same one for -25, that seems to be 50% to me between a good and bad shot.  If it were +20 to -20, I would think it might improve the game play and lengthen the games a little because not everyone is dying so quickly.  But I go back to my point where we don't really know the affect, because we have never tried it knowingly, or been able to.

 

The points you and I are making about + or - 25% are different.  Your comparing the spread across multiple shots and I'm saying you shot will only vary 25% from your normal, so 1 shot. So I think is best to leaving at two ways to look at something. 

 

As for reducing RNG as means to improve gameplay.  I doubt that work, even a little.  Lemmings will still lemming, base camping super heavies will still camp, light tanks will still have to operate in city maps, Yolo players will yolo.  Changing RNG won't stop or correct these phenomena.  

 

And I'll state again nobody starts threads complaining about the number of times they ammo rack people or roll a high damage roll.  This thread is a clear example of negativity bias.  

 

And holy cow sledge6301 34000 games in 14 months how on earth can a person sustain.  That works out to 83 games a day.  At 6.5 mins a game that's like 9 hrs of gameplay a day.  I think it's human your your battle count has dropped.  



SpartanFire71 #129 Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:01 AM

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View PostCivilWarGoat, on 10 April 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

The points you and I are making about + or - 25% are different.  Your comparing the spread across multiple shots and I'm saying you shot will only vary 25% from your normal, so 1 shot. So I think is best to leaving at two ways to look at something. 

 

As for reducing RNG as means to improve gameplay.  I doubt that work, even a little.  Lemmings will still lemming, base camping super heavies will still camp, light tanks will still have to operate in city maps, Yolo players will yolo.  Changing RNG won't stop or correct these phenomena.  

 

And I'll state again nobody starts threads complaining about the number of times they ammo rack people or roll a high damage roll.  This thread is a clear example of negativity bias.  

 

And holy cow sledge6301 34000 games in 14 months how on earth can a person sustain.  That works out to 83 games a day.  At 6.5 mins a game that's like 9 hrs of gameplay a day.  I think it's human your your battle count has dropped.  

 

Is it 25% up or down in any given shot? If so, am thinking 50% for any one shot.  They provide a pen range.  Is not the low pen 25% below the average where the high is 25% above?  

 

 

Also, I understand the negative thread comment, but there is the penned "post your good games thread" and making another thread about it would probably get the boasting treatment.


It's time to drive broken tanks with full premium ammo.  Have a wonderful balanced day courtesy of update 4.6.

 

 

 


Xenith_Inc #130 Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:05 AM

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View PostSpartanFire71, on 11 April 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

Is it 25% up or down in any given shot? If so, am thinking 50% for any one shot.  They provide a pen range.  Is not the low pen 25% below the average where the high is 25% above?  

 

Also, I understand the negative thread comment, but there is the penned "post your good games thread" and making another thread about it would probably get the boasting treatment.

 

Yes, the lowest pen value is below average, while the highest is 25% above average.

 

Say your average pen is 100mm. The low roll would be 75 and the high roll 125, giving a 50mm potential spread. Shooting a 110mm armoured target, on average, you'll fail to pen most times. Similarly, shooting an 80mm effective armoured target, most shots will pen, but a small % will fail.

 

The pen of the shell is randomised between those values upon contact with target, and will lie somewhere between them. 

 

I'd expect pen chance to fit a normal distribution, so the extreme high and low pen chances are only like 5% of shots, and 60% of shots will be within 10 - 15% of the average. 

 

The game is managing and controlling this randomisation by aiming for weakspots, loading apcr, flanking, angling, etc, to shift the odds in your favour. 


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redshadowrider #131 Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:01 PM

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View PostCivilWarGoat, on 10 April 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

The points you and I are making about + or - 25% are different.  Your comparing the spread across multiple shots and I'm saying you shot will only vary 25% from your normal, so 1 shot. So I think is best to leaving at two ways to look at something. 

 

As for reducing RNG as means to improve gameplay.  I doubt that work, even a little.  Lemmings will still lemming, base camping super heavies will still camp, light tanks will still have to operate in city maps, Yolo players will yolo.  Changing RNG won't stop or correct these phenomena.  

 

 

Couple of comments..   I don't take just one shot in a match, it is multiple, so the 50% swing is valid.  For one shot, I will agree with your point.

Second, will reducing the swing range work?  I have no idea, neither does anyone else since we haven't been able to find out.  You can doubt that it will work, but you will never know, which is the same for me.  However, what is changed can always be returned to its original value if it proves to be a bad idea.  (e.g.  Comic Book mode)


I'm just saying.....

SandM9 #132 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:00 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 10 April 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

 

There are simple ways you can make it so that you aren't relying on RNG to win. It's unfortunate you see those as a personal attack on your playing ability. What you describe as "don't be a noob" are ways you play the game to put the odds in your favor and manage RNG. It's the entire point of this game since day one.

 

You sarcastically requested this information as if it didn't exist.  I provided it. But you just seem to just want to complain that the game isn't simple enough. No amount of examples about how RNG can be managed is enough to convince you that it is possible. But yes, be sure to keep putting words in my mouth that my arguments squash any discussion others may bring to the table. 

 

You seem to prefer a more simplistic game, while I prefer a game with the greater complexity that RNG provides. I'm not going ask them to reduce RNG or eliminate it because I find it's an enjoyable addition to this game. 

 

Also, here's a link to the battle mechanics you requested. This shows how RNG works for aiming if you scroll down to accuracy and dispersion

 

http://wiki.wargamin...attle_Mechanics

 

All right let us unpack this essay.

1. Why would I take your insult personally?  Maybe because you directly responded to me and were directing your answer at me. sorta like this.

2. If it's not an insult then you really have no good advice for any players and should stop posting because "don't get shot" is some real childish advice to give.

3. When did I put a single word in your mouth.  As if there were any room....get it.  Unlike this "you just seem to just want to complain that the game isn't simple enough"  Is that what I am doing, really? Care to site where I suggest this game is to hard.  Maybe you are confused.  Strike that, you are obviously confused or just don't care to comprehend what I am saying. see. 4

4. I believe I asked for a link to the code for RNG not some PC wiki.. Which you act like you've seen. Question do they use weighted RNG?  Also where the link for the ballistic modelling?

 

 


Welcome to the forums. Where you can call people stupid, just don't call them passive-aggressive.

 

 


CivilWarGoat #133 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:04 PM

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Fair enough.  Any time I have ever been in a 1v1 situation and most I can't remember it being because of RNG.  It is normally die to a combination of several things like having thrown away hp early in the game, taking on a tank 2 tiers above me, not using my gun depression effectively, controlling the the engagement range effectively, having the wrong ammo loaded for the job, aim poorly, have damaged modules, less than 100% crew or brand new crew.  I lose engagements due to these way more than RNG.  I would wager that it is the same for others if they would be honest with themselves. 

SHRiIVIP #134 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:13 PM

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View Postsledge6301, on 10 April 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

Why do we beed RNG ?

 

Is there not just to many things that might go wrong and get players annoyed and leaving the game ?

 

Why is this a good thing for the game wot ?

 

My answers must be i dont get it at all i mean i get it but i dont think it in any way is making the game more played.

 

I know for sure my battlecount have dropped and it is not just the maps it is more the snapshoot ammorack always first hit,or a broken turret ring kind of have no repair for that.

 

But RNG is playing to much random for my taste.

 

It's one of the few mechanics in the game that allows bad players to have a chance at competing. If anyone thinks that super unis dominant the game now, just wait until you take rng away. 

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TocFanKe4 #135 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:48 PM

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View PostSandM9, on 11 April 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

All right let us unpack this essay.

1. Why would I take your insult personally?  Maybe because you directly responded to me and were directing your answer at me. sorta like this.

2. If it's not an insult then you really have no good advice for any players and should stop posting because "don't get shot" is some real childish advice to give.

3. When did I put a single word in your mouth.  As if there were any room....get it.  Unlike this "you just seem to just want to complain that the game isn't simple enough"  Is that what I am doing, really? Care to site where I suggest this game is to hard.  Maybe you are confused.  Strike that, you are obviously confused or just don't care to comprehend what I am saying. see. 4

4. I believe I asked for a link to the code for RNG not some PC wiki.. Which you act like you've seen. Question do they use weighted RNG?  Also where the link for the ballistic modelling?

 

Are you coming on to me?  :trollface:


 

I'd gladly wait an extra minute for MM balance. 


SpartanFire71 #136 Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:02 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 11 April 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

Are you coming on to me?  :trollface:

 

I have been putting +1 on many of your post.  Does that count? :teethhappy:

It's time to drive broken tanks with full premium ammo.  Have a wonderful balanced day courtesy of update 4.6.

 

 

 


TocFanKe4 #137 Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:04 PM

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View PostSpartanFire71, on 11 April 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

 

I have been putting +1 on many of your post.  Does that count? :teethhappy:

 

ohhh, that's spicy  :B

 

I'd gladly wait an extra minute for MM balance. 





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