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Premium HE rounds for Type 5 Heavy


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MegaHesh #1 Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:12 AM

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Please add them like on PC, 75mm penetration and 1400 damage.

The current HEAT is a joke with 0.5 accuracy, constant rebounds no matter which distance, see the video below.

 

 


Edited by CommanderZod, 10 June 2018 - 07:16 AM.

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MASHMAN 90 #2 Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:31 AM

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lol no, takes the skill out of the game. When it was introduced we campaigned against those HE rounds so it's balanced. If it had more pen and less damage then i could justify it but i can't justify adding a Pay to Win mechanic.

MegaHesh #3 Posted 10 June 2018 - 11:53 AM

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View PostMASHMAN 90, on 10 June 2018 - 07:31 AM, said:

lol no, takes the skill out of the game. When it was introduced we campaigned against those HE rounds so it's balanced. If it had more pen and less damage then i could justify it but i can't justify adding a Pay to Win mechanic.

 

probably you have eye problems if you do not see a rebound from 30 meters when firing a fully aimed HEAT of 334 pen to the e100 on the second video. 

heat is useless with 0.5m accuracy, the only reason they added it is to make little babies on e100 etc. less crying))


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MegaHesh #4 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:00 PM

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And where do you see skill here?

Fully aimed Type5 cannot penetrate e100 with HEAT from 119 meters?!

While E100 does not have such problems with its heat rounds. 

 

Why all other tanks in the game, like JP E100 or E4, heavies do have exact PC parametes for their guns, but not Type5 Heavy??


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MASHMAN 90 #5 Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:25 PM

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I didn't watch the video. Type 5 Heavy Premium on PC, you get 300 extra 'guaranteed' damage if you press the 2 key so why bother using Standard Rounds? That's the point, more tanks are armed with huge HE durp guns and i don't understand why, because no matter how well you play, you get hit and punished for 500-700+ and that shouldn't happen. Sure you get punished more for showing your side but you shouldn't be punished for playing correctly.

 

On a Jingles video, IS-7 got destroyed by this tank for playing correctly.

 

Same goes for Deathstars + FV4005s, extra 600 damage, Sure they may get AP as standard but another Pay to Win Tank. Players rage about Arty a lot removing skill of the game but these tanks are the same, minus the overhead view and being able to fire across the map.

 

Here is what i would do.

 

Standard: AP: 276/600 (Was going to put 282 but lowered to 276 like K-91 and Jagtiger, it could even drop to 260)

Premium: APCR: 249/750

Standard: HE: 75/1100

 

So Standard AP is better in pen, however if you feel you can pen with Premium you can trade a some pen for 150 alpha, i got idea from SU-100Y which i almost never use Premium on as i can Pen with Standard Rounds. HE is the same as it is now as HE should have more damage but not Overpowered.

 

Or this.

 

Standard: AP: 249/600

Premium: AP: 282/750 (checked PC pre 9.17.1 for Pen Value)

Standard: HE: 75/1100

 

Reduce accuracy to 0.44 like Russian Heavies

 



MegaHesh #6 Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:52 PM

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View PostMASHMAN 90, on 10 June 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

I didn't watch the video. Type 5 Heavy Premium on PC, you get 300 extra 'guaranteed' damage if you press the 2 key so why bother using Standard Rounds? That's the point, more tanks are armed with huge HE durp guns and i don't understand why, because no matter how well you play, you get hit and punished for 500-700+ and that shouldn't happen.

 

 

Why the H that should not happen?? This is a ship-based gun produced from 1908 which never fire HEAT rounds

https://en.wikipedia..._41st_Year_Type

 

console wot is broken by ... you know)

 


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MASHMAN 90 #7 Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:54 PM

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View PostCommanderZod, on 10 June 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

Why the H that should not happen?? This is a ship-based gun produced from 1908 which never fire HEAT rounds

https://en.wikipedia..._41st_Year_Type

 

console wot is broken by ... you know)

 

 

change it to AP then, PC is broken and they admit it. HE Normal and HE Premium is just wrong. HE normally pens no matter what so why give them that advantage?

MegaHesh #8 Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:13 PM

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View PostMASHMAN 90, on 10 June 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

 

change it to AP then, PC is broken and they admit it. HE Normal and HE Premium is just wrong. HE normally pens no matter what so why give them that advantage?

 

the answer is short - accuracy, if you look at the video, but you do not, heat or ap do not work with 0.5 m accuracy on short or middle distance, period. 

I represented the proof, you are nothing but words, like these community managers I asked for this issue - it does have HEAT! It is better, heat heat heat. 


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MASHMAN 90 #9 Posted 10 June 2018 - 08:48 PM

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View PostCommanderZod, on 10 June 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

 

the answer is short - accuracy, if you look at the video, but you do not, heat or ap do not work with 0.5 m accuracy on short or middle distance, period. 

I represented the proof, you are nothing but words, like these community managers I asked for this issue - it does have HEAT! It is better, heat heat heat. 

 

I already said decrease accuracy from 0.50 to 0.44.

 

CommanderZod, on 10 June 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

This is a ship-based gun produced from 1908 which never fire HEAT rounds

 

which is it? I provided two ways without HEAT or Premium HE.

 

It needs an accuracy buff for sure which I mentioned.

 

 

 



Cheetah1728 #10 Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:37 PM

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I'd rather they don't. Accuracy buff wouldn't be so bad, .45 for example would probably be fine.

I don't have issues penning with HEAT. If it bounces then it's about as common as anything else firing it. I've seen my mediums, E100, and some others dud out on an E100's cheeks using premium. Better give those super HE as well because it's obviously broken. I prefer the HE/HEAT mixture as HE is perfect for soft targets and general annoyance. HEAT is perfect for when you want the 750 average damage, but have to actually pen for it. It makes fighting flat armored targets easy if you land the shots vs just spamming and hoping for the best.

Getting into an HE only spam fest in a Type 5 vs a Type 5 is probably one of the dumbest things I've experienced. Whoever gets their gun knocked out or other modules messed up usually loses before slowly eroding from several reloads. Meanwhile HEAT is more of a mercy killing at 3-4 hits and away they go. If it were HE and premium HE I can see it just being a slightly less dragged out HE spam fest while devouring silver as a requirement.

I also wouldn't mind a buff of sorts to the 14cm, because it's currently kinda worthless vs brute forcing with the 15cm using either shell. Either RoF or pen.

Since I was curious about the roll range of their penetration, the 334 pen HEAT shells can roll as low as 250.5. The front of the E 100 is 250 and angled back. I don't know the effective angle of it when level off hand nor how much is offset by the Type 5's height, but I'm gonna say it's probably at least 260-270 being generous/lazy. It's probably just an extremely low roll for penetration in those videos. Kinda reminds me of those players I'd listen to that use the maximum penetration roll as the standard and not the lowest or average. Shell can pen for 500? That must mean it'll go through everything without need to aim, it'll never do 300 because rng obviously works that way. I used those numbers based on the 120mm's 400 damage, not penetration, but the math still applies numbers wise. And yes, there's been a few I've come across who complain their 500+ something pen HEAT shells arn't auto penning when they're probably just nailing tracks, curves, or low rolling.

MegaHesh #11 Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:33 PM

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I appreciate your suggestions, but this 15cm gun is a real gun, not a fantasy(as Type5 itself)), and never use HEAT. So, it is a pure fantasy of the console developers, while the PC devs at least followed the gun/round parameters. 

 

Cmn, this is a gun used by Japan cruisers in 1908-1930, whereas Heat rounds were invented in 1940. 

http://www.navweaps....AP_6-45_EOC.php

 

Moreover, the 14cm stock gun did not have AP :))

http://www.navweaps....P_55-50_3ns.php

 

 


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Raekju #12 Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:35 PM

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We already have enough 0 skill garbage tanks and we don't need p2w HE rounds added to that mess. 

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MegaHesh #13 Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:48 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 11 June 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

We already have enough 0 skill garbage tanks and we don't need p2w HE rounds added to that mess. 

 

cmn, all of your skill is 183 premammo and this prem HE for Type5 must be part of it)

 


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Raekju #14 Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:51 PM

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View PostCommanderZod, on 11 June 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

cmn, all of your skill is 183 premammo and this prem HE for Type5 must be part of it)

 

 

Which I have continually advocated for nerfing since I first got to tier 10. Also the 183, and TDs in general, are one of my least played classes. The only reason it's in my signature is because it's my most recent 3 mark, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. 

 

Just because something is broken in WoT doesn't mean that you bring everything to that level. That's literally the worst possible solution you can come up with.

 

I don't want to come off like an [edited]here but honestly I would do better with only AP from 183 than you with HESH. You're pulling a 48.47% overall win rate. Maybe before you start asking for completely unnecessary buffs you should try playing more mid tier tanks and learning how to do well before rushing to a tier you're not prepared for.


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GameWinner_001 #15 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:07 PM

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I would also like to see the premium HE round for the Type 4 and Type 5 Heavy.

In my opinion both tanks are currently more or less balanced (in the lower range) but they are sadly pretty colourless.

 

Comparison:

APCR loses pen over distance more than AP ammo. BUT even at maximum shooting range APCR still has a higher pen value than AP (Max himself said something like this in another thread). ---> This means that APCR could also be considered as some ammo type without any effective negative effects compared to its standard ammo counterpart.

 

I also think that the current HEAT round is not a well suited alternative as a premium round. The soft stats are too bad.

 

 

SUGGESTION:

My suggestion would be to give the Japanese tier 9 and 10 heavies a premium HE round with maybe altered stats compared to the PC or even with the same stats as on PC.

These two tanks would be "special" then and worth the grind.

They would be a very fearsome sight on the battlefield then (currently they are arty's favourite "snack" and everybody who drives another tier 10 tank just loads gold ammo and shoots them to death easily without having any fear).

 



GameWinner_001 #16 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:12 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 11 June 2018 - 07:51 PM, said:

 

 

Hey, the "win rate thing" is not nice.

Win rate doesn't necessarily say anything about whether somebody has understood game mechanics or not.

Everybody should be able to voice his/her opinion here no matter what win rate he/she has....



Raekju #17 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:15 PM

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View PostGameWinner_001, on 11 June 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

Hey, the "win rate thing" is not nice.

Win rate doesn't necessarily say anything about whether somebody has understood game mechanics or not.

Everybody should be able to voice his/her opinion here no matter what win rate he/she has....

 

Win rate is extremely indicative of how much of an asset or liability you are to your team on a regular basis. You can dislike the presence of stats all you want, but they show levels of both skill and knowledge.

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GameWinner_001 #18 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:22 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 11 June 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

 

Win rate is extremely indicative of how much of an asset or liability you are to your team on a regular basis. You can dislike the presence of stats all you want, but they show levels of both skill and knowledge.

 

maybe.

But there was no reason to make references to win rates in this thread.

 

This is only about the Type 4 and Type 5 Heavy and its premium HE round.



Raekju #19 Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:27 PM

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View PostGameWinner_001, on 11 June 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

 

maybe.

But there was no reason to make references to win rates in this thread.

 

This is only about the Type 4 and Type 5 Heavy and its premium HE round.

 

There absolutely was a very good reason. They want prem HE because they think it make their performance better in the Type 5. Bluntly, it won't. The problem is people rarely think about anyone but themselves when asking for a buff or nerf. Double HE means even more 0 skill cannons that require almost zero knowledge of weak points. Those guns completely negate angling, armor, being hull down, or any other defensive skill besides hiding. It will only add more cancer to WoT balance, which it very much already has more than enough of. 

 

It's also a 100% p2w premium round and as long as you can afford the silver cost you can do more damage with literally no other downsides.


Edited by SHRiIVIP, 11 June 2018 - 07:30 PM.

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MegaHesh #20 Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:26 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 11 June 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

 

The problem is people rarely think about anyone but themselves when asking for a buff or nerf. Double HE means even more 0 skill cannons that require almost zero knowledge of weak points. 

 

Sincerelly, i do not understand all this crying about skill and Type5. Don't you know the weak spots of this fast-moving impossible-to-kill Type5? If yes, let me know, i'll show you)

 +300 points of damage which in reality will be translated into +150, will make it a balanced tank like all other heavies with 20 sec reload time. 


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