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How could Germany have won WWII?


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x Der Meister x #1 Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:00 PM

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I'm a history major, and German, so naturally WWII has always intrigued me. And talking about alternate outcomes is also interesting because if you change one or two things, the larger picture is greatly altered. That's really fascinating IMO. 

 

So lets get to it. Reasonably, how could it have been possible...if at all? 

 

My favorite theory was always Hitler ignoring the USSR and USA in 1941, and heavily reinforcing Rommel.

 

With that, he could push through Egypt, into the Middle East, and thereby securing that huge source of oil. By doing that and having Turkey surrounded, it may have convinced them to join the Axis. 

 

With Suez locked up, if he then focused Germanys efforts on Malta, taking that woulda turned the Mediterranean into an Axis Lake. Maybe Franco woulda brought Spain into the war at that point? 

 

Either way, Germany and Italy would be in a MUCH better spot in this version of 1942-1943 than they were historically. 

 

Idk where to go from there however. Britain is still alive and well at that time. The USSR is still there as well. And Hitler being Hitler, he would at some point be compelled to attack them. Or would Stalin strike first?

 

Maybe by having the Middle East secured, he could launch a two pronged offensive into the USSR? One from the Middle East, one from Europe? How would that fair in comparison to the actual Operation Barbarossa?

 

If Hitler look the Middle East, would Britain launch an offensive out of India in response? With the Middle East under Axis control, how would the Allies supply the USSR with the Iran route closed?

 

So many possibilities :).

 

Please feel free to correct me or add on to what I have started. 


 


IBROX 04 #2 Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:10 PM

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Some historians argue it all started or didn't with the Greco-Italian War. This caused hitler to come to the aid of his Axis ally or what if he didn't come to the aid of his Axis ally? 

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Restless_Vermin #3 Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:33 PM

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It’s funny how alliances change over time, Germany invades France and Britain sends a force to stop them. France! Who have always been arch enemies! I think the allies were to blame in some respects, after WWI France wanted to eradicate Germany’s willpower, fighting force and economy. Germany needed a ‘saviour’ to bring them out of the dark ages, hunger and poverty. Along came AH! 

What if Germany said to Britain, you keep your interests in the Middle East, in fact move your navy into the med and control it all. 

The most powerful army coupled with the most powerful navy (at that time).....oh and then Britain does a deal with the US and still take over the world haha



PATRIOTICxTBro #4 Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:38 PM

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there’s no singular event that lead to nazi defeat. It was a series of repeated mistakes and missteps that led to the down fall of Germany. Hitler was a horrific leader (thankfully) and an even worse “general”. He as well as his inner circle pretty much ensured a German loss in WW2. 


Aim for Ace #5 Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:40 PM

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I'm always fascinated alot about this alternate history so I will come up with something too

 


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IBROX 04 #6 Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:46 PM

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View PostAim for Ace, on 11 July 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

I'm always fascinated alot about this alternate history so I will come up with something too

 

 

Aye, SS G-B by Len Deighton was an interesting read, still haven't watched the TV series and Fatherland by Robert Harris, had it for quite some time. 

 

Too busy reading jack reacher books at the moment. 


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Coupdeteat #7 Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:40 AM

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By waiting 5 more years and developing his military fully. By not going after Russia, by not letting the Dunkirk evacuation occur, not going after Stalingrad, by not starting it in the first place. Any of those, and more, are possible answer for ya. 

TripleFFFG #8 Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:54 AM

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If Hitler would have waited to declare war on Russia and kept the alliance with Russia, outcome might have been different.

Russia only declared war on Japan August 8, 1945, with VJ day being August 15, 1945

Russia shares the spoils of the victory over Japan. 



Brute Bassie #9 Posted 11 July 2018 - 06:41 PM

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If Germany hadn't invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 and would have concentrated on Great Britain, they could have made Operation Sea Lion a complete success by the end of 1941, which would have made D-day impossible and the conquest of the Middle East a walk in the park. If Germany then would have invaded the Soviet Union in the spring of 1942 and would have concentrated on Moscow and the oil fields in the south, Germany would have had a real chance at winning WW2.

IBROX 04 #10 Posted 11 July 2018 - 06:51 PM

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This thread needs SLB. He'd love this thread. 

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FromBravo2Kilo #11 Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:53 PM

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It’s really fascinating when you do the “What if” scenarios.  I know I have a book laying around here somewhere that goes through a lot of them.  Basically the author’s conclusion was Germany was doomed no matter what course of action it took.  Personally think the Middle East was the best scenario but, you would still need to deal with GB.  Equipment could be discussed in great detail but, Germany lacked any true long range bombers.  It would come back to haunt them when the Soviets moved their factories out of range.   The allies really punished Germany after the Great War as already mentioned earlier so, in another scenario WWII could have all been avoided.  



 


BDaddy Cheno #12 Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:03 AM

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There are at least a couple of series of books by an author who specializes in alternate history having to do with WW2 and alternate possibilities.  I don't know if forum rules allow me to mention him by name, but he is an American author who has a LOT of books dealing with "What if...?" scenarios......Initials would be H. T.  T being the English translation of the German name Turtletaub........Lots of interesting characters, both fictional and non-fictional in his series.......

 

Would WW2 have become more of a Cold War scenario had Germany had greater success in their conquest of Europe?  How would Nazism have fared without A.H. to be its focus? (He wouldn't live forever, of course.)  Would it have gone differently had rampant anti-Semitism not been a focus of the Nazi Party? (A lot of logistics at the time were devoted to transportation of Jews to concentration camps rather than supply of the Wehrmacht.)  Also, without the persecution of Jewish scientists and university professors, would German military science have advanced more rapidly?  (Not trying to step on any sensitive toes, but it WAS a part of the history at the time, just as segregated units and Japanese American internment was a part of U.S. history, to be fair.....)


Edited by BDaddy Cheno, 12 July 2018 - 03:05 AM.

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Panthergraf #13 Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:13 AM

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Where is no possible scenario of winning the war for Gernany. The base of the Nazi System was corruption, self-enrichment, self-esteem, rivalry and inefficiency.

NSW Mntd Rifles #14 Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:40 PM

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How's this one? France, Czechoslovakia and Poland march into Germany in 1936 and crush Hitler's evil cabal, while the Royal Navy blockades the German ports. Game over.

Edited by NSW Mntd Rifles, 13 July 2018 - 12:12 AM.


Wroclaw #15 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:23 AM

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all they needed to do was not invade russia.

 

the pressure on britian was enormous he rolled Europe super fast & just needed to squeeze britian out of the war & he would have been sitting pretty.

 

but that big load of quick victorys went to his head.



Panthergraf #16 Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:54 AM

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View PostWroclaw, on 13 July 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

all they needed to do was not invade russia.

 

the pressure on britian was enormous he rolled Europe super fast & just needed to squeeze britian out of the war & he would have been sitting pretty.

 

but that big load of quick victorys went to his head.

 

How to squeeze out Britain with a failed Luftwaffe and a Joke of a Navy?



Xenith_Inc #17 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:04 PM

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Not invade other countries, build up Germany's economy to the point where it was the strongest in Europe, create an alliance of European countries to jointly negotiate favourable trade deals with countries outside, with Germany as the strongest economy at the head, create a mono-currency that all member nations need to join, which ultimately benefits you as you have a stronger work ethic and economy than your partners, who you internally out trade and out compete, they go bankrupt, forgive their debt for large portions of their territory.

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killer etzi0 #18 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:49 PM

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Really don't think there would have been anyway for them to have pulled off victory.

 

Fuel and military hardware. Between the Allies and the Russians the German's entire industry, transportation, logistics, everything was getting smashed back to the stone age.


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Metalrodent #19 Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:54 PM

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As already mentioned several times not invading the USSR is the big one.

 

Alternately they could have actually worked with the Japanese, and launched a two prong assault on Russia. On a similar note Japan could theoretically have just attacked the British and Dutch, ignoring Pearl Harbour and forcing their way through Burma and India, this combined with a strong German push on the African front could have endangered the Persian oilfields, which supplied about 20% of British oil iirc, and of course control the entrance to the Indian Ocean.

 

Of course with all of these scenarios it's entirely possibly Stalin might have invaded Germany first, or built up enough defences to hold Germany back anyway. Likewise America likely would have declared war on Japan anyway if it started aggressive expansion against the British/Dutch, and eventually Germany too.


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Sgt Becket FEAR #20 Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:08 PM

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Honestly, they never really had a real chance to begin with.

 

A system built on betrayal, corruption, and greed will never last long. 

 

Hitler took advantage of an economic crisis and the feelings of resentment for how Germany was treated after WW1...he riled up the country and then refused to compromise or take advice even when he himself knew little to nothing about how it operated (such as in Naval matters) and believed that victory was always possible if the German people were simply strong willed enough.

 

Germany simply was not capable of maintaining warfare in the long term. Yes, there were mistakes that could have simply prolonged the inevitable but they were doomed from the start.

 


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