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How could Germany have won WWII?


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GroomingChief65-x #101 Posted 04 September 2019 - 09:32 PM

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View Postjanbonator, on 23 August 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

 

..and that's what they did. They call it the EU. The Fourth Reich.

 

Operation Sealion was never going to work. Surface fleet was too small, air superiority not complete, intelligence was not good and the time of the year was not correct. I guess they could've postponed it until 1942, but I don't think it would've changed much. It took the Allies years to invent and build up equipment for an amphibious invasion of such scale, and by the time they did they had total air and sea superiority. Meanwhile, the Red Army was deployed in a posture that looked more like an army ready for an offensive rather than defense in depth, which lead to massive encirclements when Barbarossa commenced. It would've taken a lot of guts just to leave them there and hope they don't get any ideas while Germany would be trying to invade Britain.

 

As for North Africa and the Middle-East, I'm not sure sending any more boots at the problem would've helped the Germans and Italians. The problem wasn't the troops or their quality, it was supply. The axis forces couldn't improve their supply situation without taking control of Malta and the Mediterranean at large, which they were not equipped to do. In hindsight, the whole North African expedition might have only hindered their war effort and could've tipped the scales in the battle for Moscow, for example - although overall I don't think it would've changed the outcome even if the Wehrmacht had captured Moscow. They'd just managed what Napoleon achieved earlier, i.e. nothing but bloodshed.

 

The biggest problem with operation sea lion was quite simply that Hitler really had no heart for it. He wanted nothing to do with obliterating those whom he considered to be of his own race. He decided instead to try to apply pressure with air power to bring about a peace agreement. It's ironic that someone known for pure brutality actually lost his chance to win the war by allowing the British to pick themselves up after Dunkirk.  Immediately after Dunkirk they literally had nothing for arms. We can talk about a navy all day long but if you ever landed any kind of force there at that point in time they had next to nothing.  I once saw an improvised armored vehicle they had with cinder blocks stacked up on it for armor in preparation for defense of an invasion.  

 

If you take the island nation, there is no possibility of a Normandy invasion, none of those 'fortress Europe' defenses Rommel was all caught up in etc, in short there would then be no concern over a possible Western front. Hitler could then unleash all of the divisions that were being held back when the invasion of Russia began.  Whether that would have turned the tide on the Eastern front I don't know. I happen to think it may well have been just enough but that's only personal opinion. 



IBROX 04-x #102 Posted 04 September 2019 - 09:52 PM

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View Postmmurdock82abn, on 23 August 2019 - 10:09 PM, said:

Perhaps most of all though, instead of rounding up and sending millions upon millions of "undesirables" and sending them to death camps. Instead, welcoming and befriending them into military service with the Reich, things would have been very different. Millions upon millions of more troops to send at his foes.

 

This guy gets it. 

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm

 

 

 


NSW Mntd Rifles-x #103 Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:40 AM

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View PostIBROX 04, on 05 September 2019 - 07:52 AM, said:

 

This guy gets it. 

 

He certainly doesn't "get" what the Third Reich was about.

IBROX 04-x #104 Posted 14 October 2019 - 08:58 PM

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View PostNSW Mntd Rifles, on 13 October 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

 

He certainly doesn't "get" what the Third Reich was about.

 

How could Germany have Won WW2... Doesn't matter if he doesn't get it or not. 

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm

 

 

 


TennisMan56-x #105 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:15 PM

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Holly crap quit coming up with ideas one could be right, Germany may have invented time travel. The may go forward in time find the answer, travel back in time and make it happen. :harp:

Huncho_Mystic-p #106 Posted 15 October 2019 - 03:41 AM

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View PostTennisMan56, on 14 October 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Holly crap quit coming up with ideas one could be right, Germany may have invented time travel. The may go forward in time find the answer, travel back in time and make it happen. :harp:

 

LOL- Germany winning WW II would be bad, but maybe if they went back in time and the Central powers survived WWI, we might be better off?

Tornado F7-x #107 Posted 04 February 2020 - 07:15 PM

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I would argue that Germany and Japan did win WW2... Once they surrendered. America was quick to help them rebuild their economies, leading to their economic dominance in recent decades. Meanwhile the allied nations who resisted Germany and Japan were left to struggle on, crippled by huge war debt. France meanwhile, having surrendered quickly to the Nazis, had comparatively little war debt. Which probably explains their ability to retire in their 50s, with a full state pension, to this day. Seems like just surrendering is the way to go... Weird. And sad.

 



Tornado F7-x #108 Posted 09 February 2020 - 12:57 AM

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Something else to bear in mind is that for the first 2 years of WW2 the Nazi war machine was largely fueled, fed, and otherwise supplied by the Soviet Union. Even as Barbarossa began, Soviet raw materials, food, and fuel were being shipped west by rail. Stalin was caught completely by surprise, despite multiple prior warnings, and went into depressed isolation as Nazi forces destroyed much of his military and raced east. Evidently he had been so caught up in seizing eastern Poland, the Baltic States, invading Finland, and purging his officer corps, that he failed to recognise the true threat. If the Soviets had cut that supply line earlier in the war, especially before the fall of France, Nazi Germany could have been quickly defeated, saving many millions of lives, especially Soviets. Curious how most historians fail to notice, or at least mention, this.

SlagInGristle-x #109 Posted 06 April 2020 - 12:25 AM

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In 1934 Churchill said Germany needed to me made to go to war asap or Britain would loose its global position and never recover it.... it was all a setup. If you read a century of warfare it focuses on several wars that didn’t even need to happen. In retrospect Stalin was the smart one. Even with all the pressure and lies trying to get him to attack Germany he refused but they got into hitlers head.... he believed the soviets were going to attack and so he launched what would be the stupidest war ever..... it settled nothing, reduced Germany to a smoldering ruin, then a client state. The rest of the outcomes of the war resulted in more wars and millions of deaths globally with the largest concentration of wealth ever in history....... absolute failed the human race he did.

GamerPaws-x #110 Posted 27 November 2020 - 08:14 PM

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View Postx Der Meister x-x, on 10 July 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

I'm a history major, and German, so naturally WWII has always intrigued me. And talking about alternate outcomes is also interesting because if you change one or two things, the larger picture is greatly altered. That's really fascinating IMO. 

 

So lets get to it. Reasonably, how could it have been possible...if at all? 

 

My favorite theory was always Hitler ignoring the USSR and USA in 1941, and heavily reinforcing Rommel.

 

With that, he could push through Egypt, into the Middle East, and thereby securing that huge source of oil. By doing that and having Turkey surrounded, it may have convinced them to join the Axis. 

 

With Suez locked up, if he then focused Germanys efforts on Malta, taking that woulda turned the Mediterranean into an Axis Lake. Maybe Franco woulda brought Spain into the war at that point? 

 

Either way, Germany and Italy would be in a MUCH better spot in this version of 1942-1943 than they were historically. 

 

Idk where to go from there however. Britain is still alive and well at that time. The USSR is still there as well. And Hitler being Hitler, he would at some point be compelled to attack them. Or would Stalin strike first?

 

Maybe by having the Middle East secured, he could launch a two pronged offensive into the USSR? One from the Middle East, one from Europe? How would that fair in comparison to the actual Operation Barbarossa?

 

If Hitler look the Middle East, would Britain launch an offensive out of India in response? With the Middle East under Axis control, how would the Allies supply the USSR with the Iran route closed?

 

So many possibilities :).

 

Please feel free to correct me or add on to what I have started. 

They will never win, not even in fantasy disconnected from all death n desruction they caused.

They lost not because of tactics but because they fully embraced evil n darkness and they wouldnt even shy away from sacrificing own clueless children in Hitlerjugend for whatever dark entities Hitler was worshipping/channeling. People forget all about occultism, Thule, Vrill etc.

When u become so disconnected from ur own heart n soul that u start annihilating groups of population like it s regular job, forces of good will raise up and defeat u.

There s absolutely nothing what Hitler could do in any possible alternative timeline.

Germany still suffers to this day from all of this. It s really sad.


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IBROX 04-x #111 Posted 27 November 2020 - 08:25 PM

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View PostGamerPaws-x, on 27 November 2020 - 08:14 PM, said:

They will never win, not even in fantasy disconnected from all death n desruction they caused.

They lost not because of tactics but because they fully embraced evil n darkness and they wouldnt even shy away from sacrificing own clueless children in Hitlerjugend for whatever dark entities Hitler was worshipping/channeling. People forget all about occultism, Thule, Vrill etc.

When u become so disconnected from ur own heart n soul that u start annihilating groups of population like it s regular job, forces of good will raise up and defeat u.

There s absolutely nothing what Hitler could do in any possible alternative timeline.

Germany still suffers to this day from all of this. It s really sad.

 

You been playing Wolfenstein Lol

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm

 

 

 


leedozer-x #112 Posted 27 November 2020 - 11:18 PM

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Hitler lost his chance at dunkirk,if he had followed through with full force and knocked great britain out of the war in 1940 would have changed everything,but hitlers aggresive expansionist policy,it was just a matter of time,thats what happens when a corporal thinks he knows more than his vastly experienced command staff,the end was always inevitable. 

IBROX 04-x #113 Posted 27 November 2020 - 11:42 PM

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View Postleedozer-x, on 27 November 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:

Hitler lost his chance at dunkirk,if he had followed through with full force and knocked england out of the war in 1940 would have changed everything,but hitlers aggresive expansionist policy,it was just a matter of time,thats what happens when a corporal thinks he knows more than his vastly experienced command staff,the end was always inevitable. 

 

That wasn't hitler though. I'll let you guess though. Just to see if you get it. He was a big fat guy and said he'd destroy the troops on dunkirk. Total failure though. 

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm

 

 

 


leedozer-x #114 Posted 27 November 2020 - 11:46 PM

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View PostIBROX 04-x, on 27 November 2020 - 11:42 PM, said:

 

That wasn't hitler though. I'll let you guess though. Just to see if you get it. He was a big fat guy and said he'd destroy the troops on dunkirk. Total failure though. 

 

true,but ultimately hitle r was in charge,not goring,

Otis Z Firefly-x #115 Posted Yesterday, 04:05 AM

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View Postleedozer-x, on 27 November 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:

Hitler lost his chance at dunkirk,if he had followed through with full force and knocked Great Britain out of the war in 1940 would have changed everything,but hitlers aggresive expansionist policy,it was just a matter of time,thats what happens when a corporal thinks he knows more than his vastly experienced command staff,the end was always inevitable. 

Fixed it for you, God damn it! ;)


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leedozer-x #116 Posted Yesterday, 10:19 AM

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View PostOtis Z Firefly-x, on 28 November 2020 - 04:05 AM, said:

Fixed it for you, God damn it! ;)

 

I thank you kind sir lol.:great:

TulpeFracht26-x #117 Posted Yesterday, 12:07 PM

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Ibrox !

Your historians are right if the "duce" had not tried poorly prepared and without sensible material

and a meaningful goal to emulate its Northern alliance partner.

then the armed forces would never have had to help him in the Balkans, in Greece and in North Africa.
2 great madmen met and found each other.

One worse than the other and then also flat and headless like his army and army commanders.



TulpeFracht26-x #118 Posted Yesterday, 12:29 PM

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brute bassie

A real attack on England was initially not envisaged after the quick victory on the Western Front.

There were many in leading positions in Germany who believed or hoped somehow that they could reach an agreement with England.

Peace treaty / Not attack pact, one believed to be able to make clear to the British that the real enemy in the east was Stalin.

In Mein kampf you can already read that the great man was planning to win space in the east for the "Aryan race".

the Nordic peoples in Scandinavia and also the English were regarded as equal people.
That was also logical from their point of view, after all, many residents of England "Angel Saxony"

are former emigrants from today's German federal states of Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt, Lower Saxony and Hesse.

 

 

Then there was an attempt by a deputy from the "greats mad"
to travel to england on your own initiative and in secret and to negotiate with the english.

As is well known, it went wrong and for his actions he was imprisoned in england for 40 years.
Only then did many of the Germans who were well-disposed towards England make another attempt

to somehow create an income with England.



amanwiththree-x #119 Posted Yesterday, 01:32 PM

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In the 1980's we did a practice paper on the subject and the winner was, and it took me by surprise, Malta.

 

If Malta had been taken early on mid 1940 just after Dunkirk, Germans would have commanded the Med, cut off the Suez canal, bolstered Rommel's North Africa campaign, taken Egypt, then Arabia.

We all know the fuel problems the German forces had, and it would have solved theirs and more or less crippled the Brits.

Any supplies from the Empire, as it was, would have to travel an extra 3000 or more miles around South Africa to reach the UK.

 

The Brits were weak, all our heavy equipment and artillery were abandoned in France, the RN & RAF couldn't have retaken Malta alone, we had neither paratroops nor any landing craft. Any offensives were impossible.

The Germans would have fortified the island by the time the Brits got their act together.

Just look how much Malta and the Maltese suffered once the Germans finally realised the strategic importance.

 

I can't remember the rest, but I'm glad the author wasn't a German chief of staff in 1940.

 

Perhaps it would have drawn the war out, it went on far too long and the associated suffering would just gone on longer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

I kill campers-x

 

 

 


Otis Z Firefly-x #120 Posted Yesterday, 04:00 PM

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View Postleedozer-x, on 28 November 2020 - 10:19 AM, said:

 

I thank you kind sir lol.:great:

 

You're welcome, my good man. :)
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