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How could Germany have won WWII?


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Panthergraf #41 Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:43 PM

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Yeah, true. The Impact of the Commonwealth‘s supply and support (Canada‘s Navy f.e.) of troops, equipment snd material is often overlooked.

Snorelacks #42 Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

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View PostMrWuvems, on 14 July 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

This thread is 100% forgetting that Stalin was going to invade German territory had Barbarossa not happened.

Also that Sealion was cancelled not because of the lack of air superiority but it was a slapdash effort without proper equipment that would have never worked.

 

People forget this fact....Germany did not have anywhere near the ship tonnage to cross the channel and complete a successful landing.


 


Snorelacks #43 Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:59 PM

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Another alternative thought is what would have happened if Germany would have focused more on Nuclear fission and truly applied the resources in manpower and research. They were on this path prior to the invasion of Poland and knew it had a military use, but the drain on scientists that either fled (German and Jewish) or were pulled off the project in and around 1942 diluted the effort so much that it couldn't have been successful. there are even reports that Germany attempted two atom bomb tests in 1944.

Edited by Snorelacks, 19 July 2018 - 01:59 PM.


 


super_merel #44 Posted 19 July 2018 - 11:32 PM

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Everything i have ever read about the german atom bomb that sounded credible said that the germans were no where near making a functioning atom bomb. They had a research program but it was very small and in the early stages. The only thing they could have made was a dirty bomb, and given the limited knowledge about radiation i highly doubt that was a thing.

 

The reason i find those reports credible is simple, look at the absolutely massive undertaking the manhattan project was. So many of the smartest people in the allied world working together, plus a massive support crew. The germans had but a fraction of those rescources. 

 

I've read that the germans did allocate so little rescources because they figured that the research would not be finished before the war ended. But that sounds a bit speculative to me.



Snorelacks #45 Posted 20 July 2018 - 01:30 AM

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View Postsuper_merel, on 19 July 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Everything i have ever read about the german atom bomb that sounded credible said that the germans were no where near making a functioning atom bomb. They had a research program but it was very small and in the early stages. The only thing they could have made was a dirty bomb, and given the limited knowledge about radiation i highly doubt that was a thing.

 

The reason i find those reports credible is simple, look at the absolutely massive undertaking the manhattan project was. So many of the smartest people in the allied world working together, plus a massive support crew. The germans had but a fraction of those rescources.

 

I've read that the germans did allocate so little rescources because they figured that the research would not be finished before the war ended. But that sounds a bit speculative to me.

 

Don't know the veracity of any of these reports, but there is certainly plenty of noise about tests being conducted-

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/the-third-reich-how-close-was-hitler-to-the-a-bomb-a-346293.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4348497.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_weapon_project



 


Wroclaw #46 Posted 20 July 2018 - 02:47 AM

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wasnt heisenberg deliberately leading research up the garden path because he disliked both the nazis & the war ? 

Don R1CO NoVa #47 Posted 20 July 2018 - 06:13 PM

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The man in the High Castle   :groß:

 


xILLumination666 #48 Posted 22 July 2018 - 09:35 PM

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they never stood a chance. they underestimated how history changing there technology was. what the would be super powers were willing to do to get it. wars are not fought for just reasons or morality. there sole purpose is conquest to reap the spoils of it 

MrRuinYourNight #49 Posted 29 July 2018 - 01:47 AM

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They can win if the alien space bats intervene and nuke Washington, London and Moscow. 

                                                                            I don't even play this game anymore lmao

                                                  


deadman1921 #50 Posted 29 July 2018 - 08:51 PM

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When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and brought the US into the war.

 

IMO AH's mistakes:

Invading USSR, getting distracted by Stalingrad, stopping to make repairs at Dunkirk, mis-judging the Brits, not getting Germany on a "war footing" until the very end, his entire inner circle that was constantly competing with each other over power, not listening to his Generals advice.

 

The list goes on and on.

 


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WidowMaker1711 #51 Posted 29 July 2018 - 09:26 PM

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Germany geographically is not in a good position to be taking on too many foreign opponents at once. Unfortunately it always boils down to the Gefreiter not knowing his [edited]from his elbow and sending his best Generals off to bleed themselves between the hammer of the Western Allies and the anvil of the USSR.

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PATRIOTICxTBro #52 Posted 29 July 2018 - 10:55 PM

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View PostSnorelacks, on 19 July 2018 - 05:30 PM, said:

The soe had a very big impact on nuclear research in Germany. Their raids set the German research back many years effectively ending any chance the Germans had to create a nuclear bomb.



WidowMaker1711 #53 Posted 30 July 2018 - 09:31 AM

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View PostPATRIOTICxTBro, on 29 July 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

The soe had a very big impact on nuclear research in Germany. Their raids set the German research back many years effectively ending any chance the Germans had to create a nuclear bomb.

 

I was going to say the Heavy Water that Germany needed to complete their bomb was destroyed by raids on the Facility and by blowing up the boat carrying the remainder.


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Greywoolfe64 #54 Posted 31 July 2018 - 03:38 PM

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In 1940, the RAF was within two weeks of being bombed out of existence. It was only thanks to an RAF Wellington crew jettisoning their bomb load over a residential area in Germany due to being lost, that caused Hitler to want revenge, thinking the attack was deliberate- and then concentrated the Luftwaffe's bombing efforts on the residents of London instead of the airfields, that gave the RAF time to rebuild, re-arm and recruit Polish and Czech pilots and turn things around. if that Wellington crew hadn't have gotten lost and dropped those bombs where they did, Operation Sealion would have followed the destruction of the RAF, and the USSR would not have received aid from the UK and US to facilitate withdrawing far enough away from the front lines to redouble their own industrial output. The USSR would have ultimately won, but only after a much longer, drawn-out and bloody war, which would eventually have seen all of Western Europe and the UK under Soviet rule rather than Nazi. The Japanese would have been defeated much earlier, as the US would have concentrated their efforts there, rather than in Europe, leading to a US/USSR war up until relatively recently.

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WidowMaker1711 #55 Posted 31 July 2018 - 07:15 PM

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View PostGreywoolfe64, on 31 July 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

In 1940, the RAF was within two weeks of being bombed out of existence. It was only thanks to an RAF Wellington crew jettisoning their bomb load over a residential area in Germany due to being lost, that caused Hitler to want revenge, thinking the attack was deliberate- and then concentrated the Luftwaffe's bombing efforts on the residents of London instead of the airfields, that gave the RAF time to rebuild, re-arm and recruit Polish and Czech pilots and turn things around. if that Wellington crew hadn't have gotten lost and dropped those bombs where they did, Operation Sealion would have followed the destruction of the RAF, and the USSR would not have received aid from the UK and US to facilitate withdrawing far enough away from the front lines to redouble their own industrial output. The USSR would have ultimately won, but only after a much longer, drawn-out and bloody war, which would eventually have seen all of Western Europe and the UK under Soviet rule rather than Nazi. The Japanese would have been defeated much earlier, as the US would have concentrated their efforts there, rather than in Europe, leading to a US/USSR war up until relatively recently.

 

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. The RAF much to the annoyance of Max Hastings were never that close to defeat. The RAF Wellingtons bombed Germany as a result of a Luftwaffe Bomber Leader being lost and bombing London instead of further up the river towards Gravesend. Hitler used this to spout some crap about for every ton of bombs the RAF dropped the Luftwaffe would drop 1000 tons. The Luftwaffe never had the capability to drop that much even in 1940.


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Uranprojekt #56 Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:17 PM

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View PostGreywoolfe64, on 31 July 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

In 1940, the RAF was within two weeks of being bombed out of existence. It was only thanks to an RAF Wellington crew jettisoning their bomb load over a residential area in Germany due to being lost, that caused Hitler to want revenge, thinking the attack was deliberate- and then concentrated the Luftwaffe's bombing efforts on the residents of London instead of the airfields, that gave the RAF time to rebuild, re-arm and recruit Polish and Czech pilots and turn things around. if that Wellington crew hadn't have gotten lost and dropped those bombs where they did, Operation Sealion would have followed the destruction of the RAF, and the USSR would not have received aid from the UK and US to facilitate withdrawing far enough away from the front lines to redouble their own industrial output. The USSR would have ultimately won, but only after a much longer, drawn-out and bloody war, which would eventually have seen all of Western Europe and the UK under Soviet rule rather than Nazi. The Japanese would have been defeated much earlier, as the US would have concentrated their efforts there, rather than in Europe, leading to a US/USSR war up until relatively recently.

 

How exactly does Operation Sealion go ahead?

 

If you study the D-Day landings or the Pacific Campaign, particularly the landings on Okinawa and Iwo Jima, you’ll notice a couple of crucial things;

1) The Allies had numerous landing craft,

2) The Allies had numerous troop ships.

 

What did the Germans have in 1941?

 

About seven or eight troop ships, none of which were suitable for direct landing ashore. Troop ships have to be unloaded at a seaport, or via troop ship tenders or barges. They also had a lack of landing craft that could be launched from troop ships.

 

The North Sea and the English Channel are not easy bodies of water to navigate. The Allies had it rough trying to conduct the D-Day landings and they’d had practice at it. The Germans had even less experience in conducting an opposed landing and they only had troop ships which could only realistically be unloaded at an existing port.

 

Therein lies the issue with Operation Sealion; there exists no realistic way for Germany to get anything close to the required number of

troops ashore to launch a proper offensive. There also exists no way to get anything larger than maybe, at a push, a halftrack or a light tank ashore to support the troops as they push inland. Naval bombardments can only reach so far, after all. These are troop ships, they lack the capacity to carry enough medium tanks to properly support an invasion.

An invasion, I may add, that is going to be opposed from the get-go by any and all available British forces.


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Chimonakimi #57 Posted 19 August 2018 - 10:38 PM

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I could be wrong on this, but I think what would have helped Germany was if America's plans had gone through as they were originally intended to.

America had prepared for a war, especially naval war in the Atlantic Ocean over supplies, they had all the plans set out and had wargamed it. They had also planned to wipe out several land bases.

Only hitch: America had planned this for a war with Britain, not Germany.

There's no doubt America was a help during WWII, but it could have been a big help to Germany if they could have Britain kicked out of the war.

AbsentGold20366 #58 Posted 07 September 2018 - 11:44 AM

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My tuppence worth....
I think the outcome was a series of bad judgements and bad luck.
Does anyone have a favourite what if moment and I mean
..1 single event?
How about the decision to leave the BEF to the luftwaffe?
The over running of RAF fighter command and the bombing of London certainly helped with the RAFs success. And don't forget a downed RAF pilot stood a chance of being recovered whereas a downed Luftwaffe pilot stood a high chance of being captured.
Citadel was a foolish op as Stalin had the outskirts of Moscow rigged with explosives.
Or how about Hitlers obsession with building more varied AFVs and aircraft?
What if he'd just concentrated on a simpler less wide develpoment?
I think there's lots of factors, some small and some big. Are some of the smaller ones really so insignificant as they first appear?
I love this topic!

PDX Axe #59 Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:47 PM

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I agree that switching the focus in the Battle of Britain was pivotal.  Some Heinkel's get lost and mistakenly bomb London, Britain retaliates and bombs Berlin, and Germany stops destroying British airfields and all the southern radar stations.  Without that bad decision Germany would have won the air battle, gone ahead with Sealion, and with all their equipment abandoned at Dunkirk, Britain falls.  Germany owns Europe. Oh yeah...never invade USSR;  Napoleon showed it's just too big.

 



pr0fit0fcanabis #60 Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:13 AM

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View Postx Der Meister x, on 10 July 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

I'm a history major, and German, so naturally WWII has always intrigued me. And talking about alternate outcomes is also interesting because if you change one or two things, the larger picture is greatly altered. That's really fascinating IMO. 

 

So lets get to it. Reasonably, how could it have been possible...if at all? 

 

My favorite theory was always Hitler ignoring the USSR and USA in 1941, and heavily reinforcing Rommel.

 

With that, he could push through Egypt, into the Middle East, and thereby securing that huge source of oil. By doing that and having Turkey surrounded, it may have convinced them to join the Axis. 

 

With Suez locked up, if he then focused Germanys efforts on Malta, taking that woulda turned the Mediterranean into an Axis Lake. Maybe Franco woulda brought Spain into the war at that point? 

 

Either way, Germany and Italy would be in a MUCH better spot in this version of 1942-1943 than they were historically. 

 

Idk where to go from there however. Britain is still alive and well at that time. The USSR is still there as well. And Hitler being Hitler, he would at some point be compelled to attack them. Or would Stalin strike first?

 

Maybe by having the Middle East secured, he could launch a two pronged offensive into the USSR? One from the Middle East, one from Europe? How would that fair in comparison to the actual Operation Barbarossa?

 

If Hitler look the Middle East, would Britain launch an offensive out of India in response? With the Middle East under Axis control, how would the Allies supply the USSR with the Iran route closed?

 

So many possibilities :).

 

Please feel free to correct me or add on to what I have started. 

You have point by point covered exactly what I would have done.  By taking the Middle East Germany would have cut the British Empire off.from it's Eastern Colonies by taking the Suez Canal.  In conjunction Hitler could have devoted more resources to U boats and air assets with the goal of strangling England and forcing a peace.  Then without a staging base for the US he could have done the two prong assault on Russia.  






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