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Tank Design Triangle - WOT Failed Physics


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MendicantBias21 #1 Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

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Firstly let me say congratulations to all of the light tank gods out there who have exploited the current design flaw with the light tanks in the game.

 

When designing a fighting vehicle, designers and engineers must balance three key elements to achieve their desired goal. There three things are: Firepower, Protection and Mobility. You cannot have all of the best of each of these elements in a single tank as trade-offs are necessary. For example you cannot have high speed capability and extremely good armor and a large gun. The weight of the armor and the gun place a burden on the speed element. Typically physics will deny one of these elements in favor of one or to of the other and this is where my problem lies. 

 

My problem is the light tanks in WOT. They have been imbued with high speed, excellent guns and penetration and the ability to bounce most shots fired at them. I have now repeatedly seen Tier X lights run circles around, and literally kick the living sh** out of heavily armored TD and Heavy tanks, and bounce every shot fired at it until it kills the target. Come on WOT!!! this is not possible in real life. 

 

I have no issue with light tanks having a good gun, speed or protection, but you cannot have the best of all three in one tank. Physics will deny you this (in other words guys it is physically impossible to have a tank that can go 100 mph, pen battleships and bounce cruise missiles).

 

The higher Tier light tanks have thrown the balance off in this game. While I am sure that every light tank gods in the game will deride me for this post, we need to add some of that balance back into the game as the light tanks should not have the ability to consistently (and I mean ever f'ing game) put up the kind of damage scores we have seen recently - 5000 - 6000 damage. Yes there will be the odd time this could happen, but I don't see every JPZ E100 TD or a Death Star put up 5000 damage game after game after game. I am tired of these light tanks dominating the scoreboard because no can hit them, or if they hit them they bounce the shot, or they outgun just about every Heavy and TD in their Tier.

 

So my proposition is this: Add some balance back into the game and adhere to the laws of physics. Either slow down the lights, lower their gun penetration capability or lower their armor rating so that a Tier 8 can pen a X easily (even the worst Tier VIII medium should be able to pen a Tier X light without using premium). If tanks in the real world acted like the WOT light tanks no one would have ever built a medium or heavy tank. 

 

If you are not prepared to respond to this imbalance, please explain why...is it because your paying player base has demanded these tanks be this way, or because you only listen to a small subset of players who are the squeaky wheel or what?

 

I enjoy playing the game and have done so for more than 4 years, I pay for gold and I have purchased some premium tanks, but these lights are driving me as well as many others crazy and may result in fewer hours played as I look for something else to play as a result of these OP tanks - I survived the BatChat, the IS4, the T110E5, the Waffentragger auf E100 and the rest of them (still trying to figure that one out) and many other OP tanks entering the game but theses AMX 13-105, T100 LT and other Tier X lights are going to make me crazy.

 



killer etzi0 #2 Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:50 PM

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"Come on WOT!!! this is not possible in real life"

 

^^there's the mistake in your thinking...^^


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montana scots #3 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:35 PM

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View PostMendicantBias21, on 10 August 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

... For example you cannot have high speed capability and extremely good armor and a large gun. ...

 

Ever been a crewman on an M1 Abrams?

 

There are some significant differences between the published capabilities and the ACTUAL capabilities. Much like the published towing capabilities of pickups vs. the actual capabilities only more radical in the case of the Abrams.


Edited by montana scots, 10 August 2018 - 08:38 PM.


Capn Ratchet45 #4 Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:28 PM

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ummm...you ever drive a light tank? they don't bounce squat lol...and 5 and 6k games are rare...not sure who's highlight reel you are watching...but I could use some of whatever drugs you are on sir...can't believe what I'm reading...Sheridan light tank armor bouncing td and hvy shells...

steelheadclan #5 Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:20 PM

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Excellent guns and pen????

 

lol

 

Substantially worse DPM and pen than mediums. 

 

Vast majority will never bounce a shot.  

 

Big games in lights come from solid work and a bit of luck at times. 

 



Capn Ratchet45 #6 Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:52 PM

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the big games come from the patience to not ASAP yolo...get early spotting and fall back...rinse repeat...need a good team behind you as well...you ain't gonna rack up assist dmg if the team8s behind you don't hit anything... if you are doing 5 or 6 k straight dmg in a light its because the reds are stupid...not because you are some kind of god.   if its that easy for anyone then play a few yourself  and let's see the results with the dates and times to prove that 5k every game over 5 games...bet I don't see it happen

Capn Ratchet45 #7 Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:53 PM

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or let's see two consecutive shots bounced in two back to back games...hard enough to do in a heavy let alone a light tank (even tho it shouldn't be)

Knot3D #8 Posted 11 August 2018 - 06:11 PM

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Hating on light tanks is the way to become popular around here real fast

PATRIOTICxTBro #9 Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:32 PM

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You lost me when you said that lights will bounce most shots fired at them. That’s going to be added to my list of dumbest things I’ve read on the forum.

 

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Capn Ratchet45 #10 Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:25 PM

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hate em all ya want...but the heavies were getting slaughtered by tds...high tier Russian meds and arty...its not that lights are overpowered...they just aren't as useless anymore...again...they aren't premiums...they are available to all...if they are so easy and overpowered then earn a few yourself and have some fun! anybody hating on lights usually just doesn't have any in the garage and would prefer wg just cater to the old heavy tank meta...the biggest problem is three arty per side every game...I'm not asking for nerfs...buffs...or removal...just limit arty to two per side...I'm not going to go away on this issue...and I'm still playing for free till it changes...gold for equipment changes only atm...zero purchases of time or prem tanks till I see less arty per side...



SquizzM3 #11 Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:31 PM

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View PostKnot3D, on 12 August 2018 - 04:11 AM, said:

Hating on light tanks is the way to become popular around here real fast

 

Coming soon to WoTC - Light Arty! The most popular class release to date!

Witness the Sh!tness...


Funktastic Ed #12 Posted 13 August 2018 - 10:37 AM

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View PostMendicantBias21, on 10 August 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

Come on WOT!!! this is not possible in real life. 

Ok… in real life:

1/ 40mph on sand or soft ground is not possible, even worse when its a heavy tank we're talking about (Tiger 1 real operation speed was round 12mph).

2/ There is no bouncing HEAT shells in real life, they're explosive triggered on contact, the only defense is spaced armor.

3/ There is no disapearing at 400 yards, and there is no detecting ennemy tank without direct focus (behind building like ingame), it's the eyes of the crew that sees (or aerial support), and in a combat situation you don't get to hear what's outside.

4/ There is no "overmatch mechanic "in real life, it does not work like that.

To let you know, an angle of 45° will only give you like 25% additional armor, a gun that can pen 250mm at 40° slopped armor, will pen a 100mm armor even angled at 30°, there's no magic in real life, you never can double the armor by angling, in the case of being shot, distance is your best friend.

WG tanks are way too bouncy, a chief that would tell me he's rellying on the armor, i shoot him and get off the tank.

5/ There's no structure points in real life, soon the armor is penetrated you're dead (or miraculously alive),if not, it means that your tank's armor is so thin that the ennemy shot went through from side to side, but if it's a grenade shell (pzGrenat of Tiger 1...) all the crew is dead.

6/ There is no auto repair or auto medication like Harry potter's in the tank, being tracked is critical and if you're under ennemy fire, there's no repairing you get out fast and run for your life.

7/ HE or HESH are way more effective and used in real life, they can disable a tank by Breaking the engine or equipments, injuring/burning the crew, (soviet 122 HE were able to punch a Tiger 1, open the melted parts break the gun, break the engine)

8/ In real life there is no RNG accuracy test, the shooter does his job, or not.

The wide circle containing the hit area of your RNG shot is the biggest "video game" feature in WOT, totally unrealistic.

In real life tank guns are very accurate, at least at the distance of engagement we see in the game, there is no hazardous shots (shells are costly and counted), this lack of accuracy may only occur when you shoot very far targets (more than a mile away)

9/: etc... blah blah we can go like this for the entire day

 

 

 

 


Edited by Funktastic Ed, 13 August 2018 - 03:12 PM.


JAG THE GEMINI #13 Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:00 PM

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View PostFunktastic Ed, on 13 August 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

Ok… in real life:

1/ 40mph on sand or soft ground is not possible, even worse when its a heavy tank we're talking about (Tiger 1 real operation speed was round 12mph).

2/ There is no bouncing HEAT shells in real life, they're explosive triggered on contact, the only defense is spaced armor.

3/ There is no disapearing at 400 yards, and there is no detecting ennemy tank without direct focus (behind building like ingame), it's the eyes of the crew that sees (or aerial support), and in a combat situation you don't get to hear what's outside.

4/ There is no "overmatch mechanic "in real life, it does not work like that.

To let you know, an angle of 45° will only give you like 25% additional armor, a gun that can pen 250mm at 40° slopped armor, will pen a 100mm armor even angled at 30°, there's no magic in real life, you never can double the armor by angling, in the case of being shot, distance is your best friend.

WG tanks are way too bouncy, a chief that would tell me he's rellying on the armor, i shoot him and get off the tank.

5/ There's no structure points in real life, soon the armor is penetrated you're dead (or miraculously alive),if not, it means that your tank's armor is so thin that the ennemy shot went through from side to side, but if it's a grenade shell (pzGrenat of Tiger 1...) all the crew is dead.

6/ There is no auto repair or auto medication like Harry potter's in the tank, being tracked is critical and if you're under ennemy fire, there's no repairing you get out fast and run for your life.

7/ HE or HESH are way more effective and used in real life, they can disable a tank by Breaking the engine or equipments, injuring/burning the crew, (soviet 122 HE were able to punch a Tiger 1, open the melted parts break the gun, break the engine)

8/ In real life there is no RNG accuracy test, the shooter does his job, or not.

The wide circle containing the hit area of your RNG shot is the biggest "video game" feature in WOT, totally unrealistic.

In real life tank guns are very accurate, at least at the distance of engagement we see in the game, there is no hazardous shots (shells are costly and counted), this lack of accuracy may only occur when you shoot very far targets (more than a mile away)

9/: etc... blah blah we can go like this for the entire day

 

 

 

 

 

Yes thus game is atrocious at times...

I only hope that the september update´? will change things for the better


 

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I44I Warlock #14 Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:11 PM

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Light tanks guns are not as good as you think and most of them have little to zero armor. The only lights having decent armor is the russian line, the other nations won't bounce shots (except the Sheridan because of the spaced armor)

 

Have you played Light tanks yourself? If not i suggest you to play them. 

I play a light tanks a lot and i know what i'm talking about. HWK for example has a very low shell velocity, long reload and Heat as premium, not very good as a light but it has high speed, good camo and very good view range.

Imo light tanks are pretty balanced.


     

                  

 

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Three 60 Mafia #15 Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:39 PM

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If you are getting solod by light tanks in TD's... it is your fault for being alone in that situation. 

Circling a tank around is literally a light tanks only chance to do anything. Most of them also are unable to clip a full health tank out. 

 

Use your team for cover and don't go anywhere alone. 

 

You mention triangle of tank design. You are also forgetting that tanks never operate as a single fighting unit. 


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The Big G BO #16 Posted 14 August 2018 - 05:21 PM

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I agree with OP about physics issue, but this is not reality. Someone in the higher up likes driving lights and it is what it is. That said, what concerns me more is the number of lights in a game; your seeing 5 and 6 per side in tier 6 matches. Those guys are going to move up eventually. Last night, I was consistently seeing 4 lights per side in tier 10 matches. That said, the light numbers should increase per match as I predicted they would. As someone said, I have everything now, speed, gun and armor, why would I drive anything else. I CAN"T ARGUE WITH THAT LOGIC! Finally, don't argue with light drivers OP, they have had it to rough for to long. Simply put, the game made them better so they can make a difference. These are their own words. Enjoy!!!! :medal:




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