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Mercenaries: A Discussion


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Sovietdeath #1 Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:28 AM

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well I've been really wanting to make a video based on the mercenaries in general I just haven't really found the time to do it but after the player Gathering I found that we really should talk more about this as a community.

 

What  I Think we expected from Mercenaries:

  • A place for oddball or shared module tanks from history
  • Captured or Lend-Lease tanks
  • Include Nations too small for their own Tech trees
  • Normal Tech Tree progression (in terms of moving up tiers not module research)
  • Multi-Nation Crews

 

The original post from Pain explaining the idea in concept form: http://forum-console...-random-musing/

 

What I think we can do to help alleviate some of the mercenary hate/gripes/etc:

  • Allow Elite experience (of qulifying tanks) or silver (gold costx400) to be spent to buy out contracts
  • Improve contract stages to be more suited for the tanks required for said contract
  • Include more mercenary tanks based off of the expectations that we originally had
  • Include more mercenary tanks to look more war-torn or less gaudy/fantasy-like in general

 

Would love to hear more from other people on how to improve The Mercenaries so that they would be a more likeable asset to the game since I doubt wargaming will pull the plug on them completely

 

Added Part 2 to this series
Mercenaries : A Fact Finding Poll
http://forum-console...t-finding-poll/



TBO K1LL4C4M #2 Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:56 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 19 September 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

 

What  I Think we expected from Mercenaries:

  • A place for oddball or shared module tanks from history
  • Captured or Lend-Lease tanks
  • Include Nations too small for their own Tech trees
  • Normal Tech Tree progression (in terms of moving up tiers not module research)
  • Multi-Nation Crews


TBO K1LL4C4M #3 Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:58 AM

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Silly..

 

This would actually made a sense of the mercs instead of these tank counterparts of yugoslawien Cars.



Sovietdeath #4 Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:59 AM

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Keep in mind I doubt they are going to roll back what they already have done and ready, which is why I'm only suggesting minor changes to the current setup

GhostRider110 #5 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:09 AM

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OP, what you described were my initial expectations of the whole mercenary line. Obviously, these were not met, so I'm not really fond of them. Some look really cool, but I find the stages just plain stupid. Either very difficult to achieve medals, amount of xp needed or the tanks that can be used.



Sovietdeath #6 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:13 AM

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View PostGhostRider110, on 19 September 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

OP, what you described were my initial expectations of the whole mercenary line. Obviously, these were not met, so I'm not really fond of them. Some look really cool, but I find the stages just plain stupid. Either very difficult to achieve medals, amount of xp needed or the tanks that can be used.

Well I do know they are already planning on working on/changing stage requirements between contract periods, but they have stated they can't/won't change stages while a contract is active. 

 

The more people, ideas, and comments on the subject the better though.



TBO K1LL4C4M #7 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:17 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 19 September 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Keep in mind I doubt they are going to roll back what they already have done and ready, which is why I'm only suggesting minor changes to the current setup

Minor wont help anymore. Don't get me wrong but i saw a couple of unique and great Games dying due to silly business decisions, someone came up and promised to max the Profit Out of the Game and Heck it worked, Short time and a year later no one was left to spend money. Wotc switched to WoT mercenaries and there you Go, i will give it a year and the Servers will turned off. Remember my words next year this time if they keep going to please their income raise the fast way instead of pleasing the customers for long term. 



Sovietdeath #8 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:26 AM

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View PostTBO K1LL4C4M, on 19 September 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:

Minor wont help anymore. Don't get me wrong but i saw a couple of unique and great Games dying due to silly business decisions, someone came up and promised to max the Profit Out of the Game and Heck it worked, Short time and a year later no one was left to spend money. Wotc switched to WoT mercenaries and there you Go, i will give it a year and the Servers will turned off. Remember my words next year this time if they keep going to please their income raise the fast way instead of pleasing the customers for long term. 

 

If it does it's thier own fault.

 

But there are a few players that actually enjoy the mercenaries line as is, I've heard of quite a few players coming back, just not many forumers.

 

As forumers have always wanted more to do with MM/Balance and normal Tech Tree additions. We are the old farts who dont prefer big changes tbh. Most of what we want is back end support, bug fixes, and things like clan wars

 

The best thing they can do with the mercenaries content ATM is find a happy medium, while not appearing to appeal only to those that open thier wallets.



MADBrettZ #9 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:34 AM

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More relevant tank use in the contract requirements is pretty obvious......

Better management of contracts released is another, current contracts Stinger, Sharpshooter, & Tusk all requiring a significant amount of light tanks ( of similar tier! ) has been a real oversight :facepalm:  

Mercenary tank line is a perfect opportunity to release some very rare/unique tanks that would not fit into our current nation’s TT...... 

This is being missed at this stage & looks like it will be for some time, as the ability to change & add tanks takes time.

 

I currently have the Slapjack & I’m trying for Sharpshooter ( stuck on stage V..... that last HC :( ;) won’t be bothering with any other Merc contracts due to requirements..... I will continue with my grinds of the many TT’s 

 

Current premium Merc tanks have no interest to me...... Have lots of “standard” premium which make silver, they should have released a tank with decent crew training bonuses!! Only this might interest me ( or Joco’s autoloading Tiger!! )

 

Cheers MB



TBO K1LL4C4M #10 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:36 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 19 September 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

 

If it does it's thier own fault.

 

But there are a few players that actually enjoy the mercenaries line as is, I've heard of quite a few players coming back, just not many forumers. As forumers have always wanted more to do with MM/Balance and normal Tech Tree additions. We are the old farts who dont prefer big changes tbh.

Well, the Game was played by old farts since beginning. It was "our" game. They had the Money to spend etc. But someone came up and Said "uhh we need a Younger Player Base, lets invent space thingy Frankenstein Tanks and ways to earn money with em" so they did. No one of these Business Genius came to mind the Younger Player Base 1. Has less Money to spend than the old farts

2. They will get bored soon as they will Always get and Switch to the next Game

3. The old farts have left by then or stopped spending that much Money for a Game they don't want at all.

4. Servers will turned off

 

Its Always the Same. I witnessed this by at least 4 games and WoT will be the 5th If they don't get rid of the business genius and Roll back entirely or at least seperate the Merc stuff by a Server for its own.

 

 

I rant about mercenaries but i actually mean the poor and fast money way of implementing them.



Sovietdeath #11 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:42 AM

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View PostTBO K1LL4C4M, on 19 September 2018 - 01:36 AM, said:

 Younger Player Base 1. Has less Money to spend than the old farts

 

Tell that to Fortnite, Overwatch, and mobile games. They are making silly money off of younger audiences with Mom/dad's CC just saying.

 

Rolling back and separating servers just isn't an option, there actually are alot of players who already have earned or bought out mercenary contracts, separating the PB will only cause the game to fail much more quickly.



leova #12 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:42 AM

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Part of me just wants to ignore the entire Merc nonsense, wholesale, as a sort of Protest against the absolute garbage and terrible design/intentions/marketing of that program

 

absolutely nothing about Mercs is player-friendly or designed in a way to benefit players, its 100% moneygrabs and microtransactions :(

Block Quote

 

 

Rolling back and separating servers just isn't an option, there actually are alot of players who already have earned or bought out mercenary contracts, separating the PB will only cause the game to fail much more quickly.

 agreed, Splitting Servers/Populations is NEVER a good or smart decision, yet its always suggested by some folks

 


Edited by leova, 19 September 2018 - 06:44 AM.


Sentience #13 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:43 AM

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Constructive criticism time. Current Mercenaries release does not reflect the expectation of players.

 

Spoiler

 

So how do we fix it?

 

Well... can we fix it?

 

1. Rename Mercenaries to Black Flag PMC. Release another faction called Orion PMC. (Or some other appropriate name, small detail)

2. Either abandon the current Black Flag PMC tech tree in place, or figure out some method to build a true tech tree progression system into it.

3. Create actual tech trees for Orion PMC. Use real life tanks (oddballs, concepts, small nations, etc)

4. Use realistic camoflague patterns and more professional soldier portraits for Orion PMC.

5. Create backstories for both factions. Black Flag is a PMC built on survival, scrapping and retooling damaged tanks into new hybrids. Orion is a PMC built on combat, uses tried and true tanks from grey market suppliers. Something like that.

6. Give crews from both factions ability to freely use any premium tank, at a 50% penalty to crew training, but add 25% sliver bonus.

7. PMC tanks should also have higher exp requirements, but have higher silver multipliers, to make them unique and “mercenary” -like

8. Create a special ”tank bowl” type event. PMC versus PMC, or PMC versus the world. You get the picture.

9. Involve your supertesters in more of the process. They care deeply about this game, and want to help.

10. Add the Baltimore city flag. Personal favor to me.

 

Spoiler

 


How to fix game balance in a nutshell: Click here.

How to fix Mercenaries in a nutshell: Click here.

How to keep history buffs happy: Click here.

How to make clans relevant again: Click here.


TBO K1LL4C4M #14 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:45 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 19 September 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Tell that to Fortnite, Overwatch, and mobile games. They are making silly money off of younger audiences with Mom/dad's CC just saying.

 

Rolling back and separating servers just isn't an option, there actually are alot of players who already have earned or bought out mercenary contracts, separating the PB will only cause the game to fail much more quickly.

 

I agree actually. But dads and Moms Cash is still the old farts Money ;)

So lets "enjoy" the last year of WoT on Console.



Sovietdeath #15 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:46 AM

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View Postleova, on 19 September 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

Part of me just wants to ignore the entire Merc nonsense, wholesale, as a sort of Protest against the absolute garbage and terrible design/intentions/marketing of that program

 

absolutely nothing about Mercs is player-friendly or designed in a way to benefit players, its 100% moneygrabs and microtransactions :(

 

It's not 100% money grabs & microtransactions and according to Jeff Gregg, was never designed to be, but as I told him in person Saturday. "We as players as Soon as we see any gold cost (without a silver option) automatically see it as a P2W or Moneygrab"



TBO K1LL4C4M #16 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:51 AM

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View Postleova, on 19 September 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

 agreed, Splitting Servers/Populations is NEVER a good or smart decision, yet its always suggested by some folks

 

I agree, even If i suggest it. But continue as it is will be the death of wotc.



Sovietdeath #17 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:57 AM

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View PostTBO K1LL4C4M, on 19 September 2018 - 01:51 AM, said:

I agree, even If i suggest it. But continue as it is will be the death of wotc.

The biggest reason the death if WoTC will be simply time in itself as console players do leave games more quickly over time then PC gamers. It's one of the main reasons from what I see with WoTs attempt at rebranding



Thrillhelm #18 Posted 19 September 2018 - 06:59 AM

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As for someone who really wished for more historical accuracy (as much as World Of Tanks allows it) the mercenary tanks were a slap in the face, because they are hybrids that never have been real or even concepts. Other tanks that were completely fictional at least attempted to look "sort of real" or possible. Not so the mercs, who added insult to injury to make their tanks look like straight out of Mad Max and Tank Girl. What is it with these colorful tanks anyways?

 

Once you got those tanks, you can little do other than playing them. Other tech trees have premiums so at least you can train your crew, make more silver and gain more XP, but with the mercs they just sit around. I like that they had one or two good ideas but they were implemented in the game while not being thought out completely. So now we have the true problem which are the contracts that shape the meta because people are forced to play certain tanks (with too many restrictions about Light tanks) and cannot skip certain contract stages that contain hard to get medals while also being under a time limit. There are so many factors that work against the meta game where I can see why players hate the mercenary tanks so much.

 

So now I am 210k XP into my final Tusk contract stage, which limits me to two tanks that happen to be Lights, and I cannot stop the contract without losing my entire progress. So until Christmas I don't have to bother to look at the other contracts because I cannot start a new one anyways - and again I'd be under a time limit which forces me to grind for said contract or else I will lose my entire progress.  Again this limits my options as a customer.

 

We have mercenary tanks few people wanted that way, contracts that do not work as intended, and restrictions for players who want to grind for mercenary tanks. And even if you do not want to take part in the contracts at all, you have to suffer from it since the contracts shape the current meta to a point that there are so many Tier IX and X lights they have to make 7v7 matches.



Bashful #19 Posted 19 September 2018 - 07:01 AM

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Opinions on the mercenary line? 

 

As far as it being something that is keeping my interest in the game - it actually does the opposite as I find that I have to put with the players who are chasing these contracts. Nothing is quite so much fun as being in a Tier 10 match with 5 light tanks per side. It's not like light tanks aren't STILL the most OP tanks in the game. 

 

As far as the tanks themselves, the fundamental problem they have is that there is no motivation to play them. It's not like they are actual tech tree tank where there's another tank to get after the current one. More like, it's you do the contract, look at it in your garage, and then probably sell it for the slot. Do the make good xp or credits? Nope, they aren't premium tanks. Can they train my crews for specific nations that are lacking crew trainers, nope not a premium tank, and not a crew trainer. The only use I can find for the things is basically as Trailer Queens.

 

Of course, to get one of these, you have to finish the contract. I don't think there's anything that has sucked the fun out of this game --- turn this into very much a sweat shop job --- than the contract format that they use. Instead of letting us just PLAY THE GAME, they decided to make us jump thru ridiculous hoops in order to advance. Want a Tier 9 Merc Tank? Well you have to earn a High Caliber in 2 battle while in American Light tanks. If you don't want to do that, pay real money. Don't like that option? Tough, no tank for you!

 

What has been particular galling is that feedback about these contracts has been given to WGCB --- to their credit they did make it "easier" for some of the second generations of contracts --- but they don't appear to have considered actually rethinking them.

 

What I think happened is that someone came up with the tech to do these contracts and instead of using them sensibly --- like maybe just have them for the Tier 3 tank to start the line --- the rest being a normal nation progression --- they decided that their design was so awesome that they had to subject us all to it.

 

So yeah, at this point, I'm still wondering why I play this game. Maybe I'm hoping that someone there will actually listen and realize that they need to rethink this.


Edited by Bashful, 19 September 2018 - 07:03 AM.


TBO K1LL4C4M #20 Posted 19 September 2018 - 07:04 AM

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View PostSovietdeath, on 19 September 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

The biggest reason the death if WoTC will be simply time in itself as console players do leave games more quickly over time then PC gamers. It's one of the main reasons from what I see with WoTs attempt at rebranding

Rebrand never worked If you have an "old" Player Base because they are standing by Things they Like, Always, in all aspects of life. You can Trust me or Not but having some new Features added is enough to keep the Game Alive and have new Players joining. Even a proper implementation of the mercs, (Like you have stated as it was thought by the community)

But switching to a Younger Player Base If this was never be the original Base is Like suicide for a Game.






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