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Gallant Prime #21 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:23 AM

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View PostIBROX 04, on 09 November 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

 

Who's time was he wasting exactly? Playing a PVE? 

 

View PostIBROX 04, on 09 November 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

 

If WG didn't want players playing a PVE . Why add ? Arguing about gaming the system actually defeats the purpose. Why add it in the first place? Doesn't make sense. 

 

Apparently his own and he was so concerned about it he wanted to share.  Please try to follow as you seem completely lost in this thread.  PLK180W's comment was about the Trinity.



IBROX 04 #22 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:31 AM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

 

 

Apparently his own and he was so concerned about it he wanted to share.  Please try to follow as you seem completely lost in this thread PLK180W comment was about the Trinity.

 

Nah , WG add a mode then make it impossible for new , newish players to complete and impossible to complete the secondary objective for mostly anyone? Then totally ignore everything about it? 

 

Aaron William Murray                    Forever in our hearts

 

 

 


IBROX 04 #23 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:43 AM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

 

 

Apparently his own and he was so concerned about it he wanted to share.  Please try to follow as you seem completely lost in this thread.  PLK180W's comment was about the Trinity.

 

I'm going to crash, try running a few tiers through WS and then you'll find out what's wrong with WS. It's broken. 

 

Aaron William Murray                    Forever in our hearts

 

 

 


Gallant Prime #24 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:57 AM

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View PostIBROX 04, on 09 November 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

 

Nah , WG add a mode then make it impossible for new , newish players to complete and impossible to complete the secondary objective for mostly anyone? Then totally ignore everything about it? 

 

I know people that don't know how to put equipment on their tanks that can complete live fire.  I have played plenty of WS--usually higher tiers.  It is good for practicing tracking and hitting modules on the tanks they do provide.  Some WS are difficult--particularly with stock tech tree, but then it would not be worth training newish players or even remotely replayable if it was not. 

 

The subject of having to quit and restart when trying to maximize (what a few hundred xp or few thousand silver?) is what I addressed and what I found funny.  He should have just played through.  Why do people expect to win or win everything every time?

 

 



Jope2209 #25 Posted 10 November 2018 - 08:33 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 01:57 AM, said

 

The subject of having to quit and restart when trying to maximize (what a few hundred xp or few thousand silver?) is what I addressed and what I found funny.  He should have just played through.  Why do people expect to win or win everything every time?

 

 

 

Actualy, I've found that at certain tiers (tier of bots progresses as your tank tier changes), having 3 or 4 light tanks leads to easy victory. Tier VIII is the most problematic one, cause that's the tier with most high earning premiums. Tier IX is the most friendly and you can finish it pretty easy whatever your team of bots is consisted of. Same goes for tier X, but it's pointless to play tier X, except to try out a new tank of some equipment efficiency.

So, tier VIII is where is really difficult to finish Secondary Objective and if you get 3 or 4 light tanks you will probably end up winning without bonus or even losing it.

The bots at tier VIII are mostly Panthers and Pz IC, but fifth bot is Always RU-251. Also sixt is RU-251 (that one is always smoked before you can even see it), followed by two tier VIII heavies and two more RU's. RU's are what's messing the green team, cause they are spotting for two arty on the hill. If you don't take them out quickly, you can't finish with bonuses. Arty was also tweaked when they updated 4.7, but it's back to previous state now.

Last 3 bots are changed, it's tier VII med (1 or 2) and Hawk, but instead of going trough the valley, they are now focused on you, and they will try to bum-rush you and I mean literally, even jump from the cliff after you.

 

I'm using it to get out of stock packages on TT tanks, heavies are ok, armored TD's too, meds don't always work and light tanks take a lot of skill (or luck) to survive last 3 tanks.

 

My guess is that Rest was talking about getting the most out of his time invested, it wasn't his plan to abuse the system, he just ppointed out to the fact that bots were tweaked in this last update and LFE is changed, so you get 3 or 4 lights 80% of time (at tier VIII).

 

I'm not restarting the chapter since you can lose your xp boosts (if any). I play it no matter what RNG throws at you. But, as I said, sometimes green lights can take out all red bots even without your help. Of course some tanks like Trinity, can finish almost 100% of cases, but then again they only train Merc crews (I don't have any) and they don't have any bonuses at all.

 

I'll stop now cause it's already TLDR.


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

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R35T NO MORE #26 Posted 10 November 2018 - 08:51 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

 

I know people that don't know how to put equipment on their tanks that can complete live fire.  I have played plenty of WS--usually higher tiers.  It is good for practicing tracking and hitting modules on the tanks they do provide.  Some WS are difficult--particularly with stock tech tree, but then it would not be worth training newish players or even remotely replayable if it was not. 

 

The subject of having to quit and restart when trying to maximize (what a few hundred xp or few thousand silver?) is what I addressed and what I found funny.  He should have just played through.  Why do people expect to win or win everything every time?

 

 

 

You get quite alot more. I had 30 mins. Lets say i ran it 3 times and did the ops (completing them isn't exploiting the system or anything, shocking eh?). I would earn around 240k. If i didn't do the ops, i would earn around 84k. Understand this, i don't owe WG anything. They have to tempt me to play. 84k (premium time bonuses included) isn't worth the meagre 30 mins of time i had. Before 4.7, the lights spawning so often wasn't a problem, they were rarer. Now they are not. 

 

Not being able to complete the ops purely due to random luck of the spawns is annoying. If it was due to my skill i wouldn't have issue with it. 



R35T NO MORE #27 Posted 10 November 2018 - 08:53 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

 

 

You weren't just "merely" playing as you allude to and were denied something without reason.  No, in fact you did not like the terms of the engagement so you spent 30 or 35 minutes quitting and restarting to get the matchup that you thought was most favorable to you.  That is trying to game the system.  Instead of accepting the challenge presented you tried to manipulate the terms.  Maybe you should not be able to auto complete the op every time.  Maybe you should have to work for it.  Maybe you should just play the game instead of the economy.   

 

You do realize that in the 35 minutes you spent quitting and restarting you could have otherwise completed live fire three or four times, right?  You would have earned more by just playing.  

There's drivel, and then there's that ^. 

Also seems like you have no clue what you're talking about. Good effort. 



R35T NO MORE #28 Posted 10 November 2018 - 08:59 PM

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View PostIBROX 04, on 10 November 2018 - 01:19 AM, said:

 

If WG didn't want players playing a PVE . Why add ? Arguing about gaming the system actually defeats the purpose. Why add it in the first place? Doesn't make sense. This thread is about how petty WG is, isn't actually about gaming the system. 

I critisized, so he showed up. He is nowhere to be found when i praise them it seems. He doesn't realise that i'm trying to do wg a favour. If lights didn't keep spawning, i wouldn't have felt like i wasted my time and would have played the next day, instead i played another game. If it bugged me enough to do that, it likely will do the same to others. If WG sorted it, WG would have happier War Stories players. Happy players=loyal players. 

 

But he just sees critism and jumps at it. Desperate to defend WG. 



Gallant Prime #29 Posted 10 November 2018 - 11:11 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 10 November 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

 

I run 8s quite a bit actually.  Sometimes you get the odd RNG issue--setting you on fire, killing your crew.  I was taken out once by the arty in what was a bit of karma since I was blocking the greens shots to save the damage and kills for myself.  Having a modicum of difficulty makes it somewhat interesting. 

 

But it seems weird people are expressing that WS is now too hard since it was panned as too easy on release--particularly in regards to re-playability.

 

View PostR35T NO MORE, on 10 November 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

 

You get quite alot more. I had 30 mins. Lets say i ran it 3 times and did the ops (completing them isn't exploiting the system or anything, shocking eh?). I would earn around 240k. If i didn't do the ops, i would earn around 84k. Understand this, i don't owe WG anything. They have to tempt me to play. 84k (premium time bonuses included) isn't worth the meagre 30 mins of time i had. Before 4.7, the lights spawning so often wasn't a problem, they were rarer. Now they are not. 

 

Not being able to complete the ops purely due to random luck of the spawns is annoying. If it was due to my skill i wouldn't have issue with it. 

 

View PostR35T NO MORE, on 10 November 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

There's drivel, and then there's that ^. 

Also seems like you have no clue what you're talking about. Good effort. 

 

View PostR35T NO MORE, on 10 November 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

I critisized, so he showed up. He is nowhere to be found when i praise them it seems. He doesn't realise that i'm trying to do wg a favour. If lights didn't keep spawning, i wouldn't have felt like i wasted my time and would have played the next day, instead i played another game. If it bugged me enough to do that, it likely will do the same to others. If WG sorted it, WG would have happier War Stories players. Happy players=loyal players. 

 

But he just sees critism and jumps at it. Desperate to defend WG. 

 

Post some screenshots.  Let's talk facts then.  Pick a tank and let's compare.  

 

Not everything is about you btw.

 



Jope2209 #30 Posted 10 November 2018 - 11:31 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

 

I run 8s quite a bit actually.  Sometimes you get the odd RNG issue--setting you on fire, killing your crew.  I was taken out once by the arty in what was a bit of karma since I was blocking the greens shots to save the damage and kills for myself.  Having a modicum of difficulty makes it somewhat interesting. 

 

But it seems weird people are expressing that WS is now too hard since it was panned as too easy on release--particularly in regards to re-playability.

 

If you play it then you know what it's like to play tier VIII compared to let's say tier IX. Tier IX is more friendly, in LFE your green bots are Soviet tier IX tanks, so you get ST-I for a heavy, T-54 ltwt for a sniper, 430 II for med. Reds change to Indian Pz and Panther II, light tanks get tier up, so RU's instead of Pz IC and PzWagen takes place of RU's, heavies change to VK B and E75. All pretty manageable.

 

But at tier VIII it's a bit more difficult to keep 3 bots alive when 3 (or 4) are LTTB (only 1050 hp). Also med is Obj 416 (no armor is its issue) and if you get one heavy it has good chances to survive (IS-3 or KV-4). With 4.7 Update WS was nerfed at first, bots were reprogrammed and arty buffed. Then they restored it with next fix couple of days later, but still bots have changed pattern, especially last 3.

 

Also the point stands about why introducing it in the first place if they'll make it more player unfriendly with each Update. Storyteller Op has 810 wins required in the last stage. That means they had in mind some serious playtime.


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

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Gallant Prime #31 Posted 10 November 2018 - 11:42 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 10 November 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

 

If you play it then you know what it's like to play tier VIII compared to let's say tier IX. Tier IX is more friendly, in LFE your green bots are Soviet tier IX tanks, so you get ST-I for a heavy, T-54 ltwt for a sniper, 430 II for med. Reds change to Indian Pz and Panther II, light tanks get tier up, so RU's instead of Pz IC and PzWagen takes place of RU's, heavies change to VK B and E75. All pretty manageable.

 

But at tier VIII it's a bit more difficult to keep 3 bots alive when 3 (or 4) are LTTB (only 1050 hp). Also med is Obj 416 (no armor is its issue) and if you get one heavy it has good chances to survive (IS-3 or KV-4). With 4.7 Update WS was nerfed at first, bots were reprogrammed and arty buffed. Then they restored it with next fix couple of days later, but still bots have changed pattern, especially last 3.

 

Also the point stands about why introducing it in the first place if they'll make it more player unfriendly with each Update. Storyteller Op has 810 wins required in the last stage. That means they had in mind some serious playtime.

 

People were complaining it was too easy.  I don't seem to have problems.  I'll try and take something underwhelming at tier 8 and try it again.  Suggestions?    

Jope2209 #32 Posted 10 November 2018 - 11:50 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 11:42 PM, said:

 

People were complaining it was too easy.  I don't seem to have problems.  I'll try and take something underwhelming at tier 8 and try it again.  Suggestions?    

 

Try some tier VIII light or any medium (except Trinity). But, test the case when you get 3 or 4 light tanks in green team. This is not about not being able to win it, it's about having Secondary Objectives done (keeping 3 allies alive).

 

Scenario with 3-4 light tanks on greens is now happening quite often, especially if you play T8 premiums (maybe they're weighted differently, I don't know), but try for instance King Tiger and get Sec. Obj. done with it.

 

The purpose of WS imo should be to train some crews, test new tanks and equipment effects and get out of stock packages of TT tanks. I find it very useful tool when you assign crew to a new tank and it's on 75% training.


Edited by Jope2209, 10 November 2018 - 11:58 PM.

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Gallant Prime #33 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:02 AM

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View PostJope2209, on 10 November 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

 

Try some tier VIII light or any medium (except Trinity). But, test the case when you get 3 or 4 light tanks in green team. This is not about not being able to win it, it's about having Secondary Objectives done (keeping 3 allies alive).

I'll try with each of these:  Hollenhund, CDC, Pershing, Revalorise, Strv 81, T95E2



Jope2209 #34 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:08 AM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 11 November 2018 - 12:02 AM, said:

I'll try with each of these:  Hollenhund, CDC, Pershing, Revalorise, Strv 81, T95E2

 

OK, I think you will struggle with Revalorise cause of ROF. I don't play T95E2 anymore cause it can rarely finish Sec Obj (this is why I think premiums have different weight when mixing teams). Pershing has a good chance, Hellhound too. Don't have CDC, but it will be interesting since it's soft tank. Don't have Strv either.

 

Perhaps TT Bulldog would be better than Hellhound. Tank is borderline OP.


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Gallant Prime #35 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:38 AM

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I can only play what I got.  

 

First one down--Hollenhound.  Played poorly--particularly at the end and made it closer than it should have been.  Had 5 lights on team.  Used a 5 skill crew.  Done in under 7 minutes I think.

 

Spoiler

 



Gallant Prime #36 Posted 11 November 2018 - 01:24 AM

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Well now I have to ask what tanks people are playing because I am not getting more than 2 or 3 lights using the Rev and the CDC.  Also, have you tried ramming the first 2 groups particularly the RU251s?

Gallant Prime #37 Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:01 AM

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Hmmm... final got another batch of lights in the Strv 81.

 

Spoiler

 

I'm still not seeing a lot of lights in games.  I wonder if people see lights more if they quit out of matches with lights.  Two out of maybe 10 matches I had 4 or 5 lights.  



IBROX 04 #38 Posted 11 November 2018 - 09:38 AM

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Busy with my wife and daughters birthday today, Grandson is staying over and wants to run my tanks through WS for the x5 today, I'll ask him to take a screenshot of every fail , he'll probably forget , so ain't promising anything. 

 

Aaron William Murray                    Forever in our hearts

 

 

 


Jope2209 #39 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:04 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 11 November 2018 - 02:01 AM, said:

Hmmm... final got another batch of lights in the Strv 81.

 

Spoiler

 

I'm still not seeing a lot of lights in games.  I wonder if people see lights more if they quit out of matches with lights.  Two out of maybe 10 matches I had 4 or 5 lights.  

 

5 light tanks is extreme case, rarely happens. I think most of the time I see teams with 3 and four light tanks. So you've posted succesful runs, what about Revalorise, CDC or T95E2? Hellhound will do good, it's very capable tank, obviously Strv is capable, since you've had 57 pens in that run. You've asked about ramming RU's, yes I have tried it. But if you lose too much of your health might be a problem to survive last 3 tanks.

 

There is also a bug, I don't know what triggers it, but makes all bots freeze at spawn, so they don't move at all. Can't say what's the trigger, but happened to me more than once. This doesn't mean they don't shoot, they shoot at the same rate, except they don't move. That makes it easy for first 5 reds, but next 5 (on the valley) stay a bit too far for green bots to hit them. And when two RU's appear they also stay pretty far and since they are not moving their camo makes them invisible, while view range lights up the greens for arty. Last 3 tanks work as usual (I'm talking about bug case).

 

Keep in mind that there are 2 daily silver boost Ops (repeatable 3 times), one silver boost Op (non-repeatable). Op for double xp requires 12 frags, and you will agree that is quite difficult at least on LFE. Assisted dmg Op for double crew xp is not that difficult, tracking red bots is doable. There are 2 XP Ops (repeatable 2 times), one for 6 frags and one for 5 spots.

 

Without Secondary Objectives done, these daily Ops are pretty much wasted, cause they have minor boosts as reward to start with (X1.25 multipliers). Without Secondary Obj. finished, daily Ops lose all effect, xp earned is dwarfed, silver can even go red. So, with that in mind, I understand why would someone try to get green team with fewer light bots, and that imo, was the motive behind OP. Rest just said that if you have 30 mins of time available you want to make it count, and it's harder to get favorable team mix.


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Jope2209 #40 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:28 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 11 November 2018 - 01:24 AM, said:

Well now I have to ask what tanks people are playing because I am not getting more than 2 or 3 lights using the Rev and the CDC.  Also, have you tried ramming the first 2 groups particularly the RU251s?

 

Generally speaking only one tank can finish it with near 100% success, and that's Triniity from WS. That tank is the most powerful DPM machine in general (accuracy 0.15) if we take all modes available in game.

 

When playing some TT tanks, I remember it was painful to get Secondary Obj. done in tanks with poor ROF (low DPM). Also non-armored tanks have more problems when facing last 3 tanks, because these are the only 3 bots that will focus on a player, not on green bots. Arty is triggered if all green bots are dead and you must hit it first, plus it will only attack you one at the time. I don't take into count random RNG hits when you get zeroed by accident because you're too close to the Sniper on the hill (although this might be a thing, certainly not isolated case).

 

From the recent memory, I would say TVP VTU, SP Pz I C, WZ-132 were the tanks I had some problems with. As I said, I've tried to get out of bad stock packages on TT tanks and train up crews on new tanks to 100%. That is why LFE is very useful tool. Premium tanks that will struggle to finish Secondary Objectives would be King Tiger, Mutant, T95E2, Revalorise, T95/Chieftain, Soviet heavies (Fatherland, Scourge, even KV-5). When I say struggle, I don't mean they can't finish it with Secondary Objectives, of course they will succeed from time to time. With these tanks green team mix becomes more influential on the outcome. If you fail 50% of time because greens die too fast and you can't contribute much because your tank can't dish out dmg fast enough (like Trinity, 250-ish dmg every 3.15 seconds), then it's certainly worth to try and get more favorable team mix. You will agree that IS-3, KV-4 or T-44 has higher chance to survive that LTTB


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

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