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Jope2209 #41 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:32 PM

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@Gallant Prime

 

Thank you for listening and running these tests yourself. Even if your results show something different, it's nice thing that you've tried.

 

:great:


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

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R35T NO MORE #42 Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 10 November 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

 

I run 8s quite a bit actually.  Sometimes you get the odd RNG issue--setting you on fire, killing your crew.  I was taken out once by the arty in what was a bit of karma since I was blocking the greens shots to save the damage and kills for myself.  Having a modicum of difficulty makes it somewhat interesting. 

 

But it seems weird people are expressing that WS is now too hard since it was panned as too easy on release--particularly in regards to re-playability.

 

 

 

 

Post some screenshots.  Let's talk facts then.  Pick a tank and let's compare.  

 

Not everything is about you btw.

 

Try it in tanks that don't have a high rof. I'm not making it about me, you are. I made a thread about War Stories and the lights being bad. You made it about me..

 

When i next get on i'll post pics. 

 

 


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Gallant Prime #43 Posted 11 November 2018 - 10:04 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 11 November 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

Try it in tanks that don't have a high rof. I'm not making it about me, you are. I made a thread about War Stories and the lights being bad. You made it about me..

 

When i next get on i'll post pics. 

 

 

 

Do you have suggestions for a low rate of fire light or medium tank?  Somewhat of an oxymoron you know.  See my next post regarding the Revaloise.  

 

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Gallant Prime #44 Posted 11 November 2018 - 10:50 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 11 November 2018 - 06:04 AM, said:

 

5 light tanks is extreme case, rarely happens. I think most of the time I see teams with 3 and four light tanks. So you've posted succesful runs, what about Revalorise, CDC or T95E2? Hellhound will do good, it's very capable tank, obviously Strv is capable, since you've had 57 pens in that run. You've asked about ramming RU's, yes I have tried it. But if you lose too much of your health might be a problem to survive last 3 tanks.

 

There is also a bug, I don't know what triggers it, but makes all bots freeze at spawn, so they don't move at all. Can't say what's the trigger, but happened to me more than once. This doesn't mean they don't shoot, they shoot at the same rate, except they don't move. That makes it easy for first 5 reds, but next 5 (on the valley) stay a bit too far for green bots to hit them. And when two RU's appear they also stay pretty far and since they are not moving their camo makes them invisible, while view range lights up the greens for arty. Last 3 tanks work as usual (I'm talking about bug case).

 

Keep in mind that there are 2 daily silver boost Ops (repeatable 3 times), one silver boost Op (non-repeatable). Op for double xp requires 12 frags, and you will agree that is quite difficult at least on LFE. Assisted dmg Op for double crew xp is not that difficult, tracking red bots is doable. There are 2 XP Ops (repeatable 2 times), one for 6 frags and one for 5 spots.

 

Without Secondary Objectives done, these daily Ops are pretty much wasted, cause they have minor boosts as reward to start with (X1.25 multipliers). Without Secondary Obj. finished, daily Ops lose all effect, xp earned is dwarfed, silver can even go red. So, with that in mind, I understand why would someone try to get green team with fewer light bots, and that imo, was the motive behind OP. Rest just said that if you have 30 mins of time available you want to make it count, and it's harder to get favorable team mix.

 

The five light tanks were part of the original post (4-5 lights).  I only looked at winning games with 4-5 lights.  If it came up with less, then I would screw around trying different things before dying, driving off a cliff to preserve the daily double.  I could not get the CDC or Revaloise to come up with the required number of lights after about 3 times a piece.  The Hollenhund and Strv 81 had it come up first time.  

 

I do completely agree that some selectable ops are ill-designed for live fire.  I tend to not pay too much attention to the ops so long as they are reasonable within the WS--eg killing 12 in live fire is not one I tend to select. 

 

View PostJope2209, on 11 November 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

 

Generally speaking only one tank can finish it with near 100% success, and that's Triniity from WS. That tank is the most powerful DPM machine in general (accuracy 0.15) if we take all modes available in game.

 

When playing some TT tanks, I remember it was painful to get Secondary Obj. done in tanks with poor ROF (low DPM). Also non-armored tanks have more problems when facing last 3 tanks, because these are the only 3 bots that will focus on a player, not on green bots. Arty is triggered if all green bots are dead and you must hit it first, plus it will only attack you one at the time. I don't take into count random RNG hits when you get zeroed by accident because you're too close to the Sniper on the hill (although this might be a thing, certainly not isolated case).

 

From the recent memory, I would say TVP VTU, SP Pz I C, WZ-132 were the tanks I had some problems with. As I said, I've tried to get out of bad stock packages on TT tanks and train up crews on new tanks to 100%. That is why LFE is very useful tool. Premium tanks that will struggle to finish Secondary Objectives would be King Tiger, Mutant, T95E2, Revalorise, T95/Chieftain, Soviet heavies (Fatherland, Scourge, even KV-5). When I say struggle, I don't mean they can't finish it with Secondary Objectives, of course they will succeed from time to time. With these tanks green team mix becomes more influential on the outcome. If you fail 50% of time because greens die too fast and you can't contribute much because your tank can't dish out dmg fast enough (like Trinity, 250-ish dmg every 3.15 seconds), then it's certainly worth to try and get more favorable team mix. You will agree that IS-3, KV-4 or T-44 has higher chance to survive that LTTB

 

View PostJope2209, on 11 November 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

@Gallant Prime

 

Thank you for listening and running these tests yourself. Even if your results show something different, it's nice thing that you've tried.

 

:great:

 

Thanks for the info.  I will look into some of these things more, though I am not one that is going to sit and play WS over and over within the same day.  I did not do the T95E2 honestly because I was bored and was not seeing the 4-5 lights often enough.  After the 5x days, I will do some more. 

 

In my screwing around parts, I found it very viable to ram/push the first groups as they pay you no attention to you whatsoever.  If you can block their shots with a bit of armor, even better.  I generally had no chance unless to shoot the yolo scount unless I had jumped the wall because the team melts him.  The heavies keeping them tracked early and back bought more time, I believe there is a trigger point in the field.  (need to investigate that more) 

 

After the field is cleared, I could take my time finishing off the arty and either hang out at the bottom or go on top.  The next three after arty are the ones that seem to me to be the most problematic and seem to be turned up in aggression.  They don't just hang around the corner or go around the south side.  It's not that they kill any of your tanks, they just come after you.  If you are on top, and don't kill one before they come around the corner, they seem particularly vicious about trying to flank you.  I don't think the Sherman is useful for cover anymore and it seems to block the shots of your green light.  The last three are so aggressive they drive off the cliff for you, so it seems a bit harder to get the damage and kills from them.  I am considering pushing that green light on top to a different position--maybe off the cliff.  For those last three, I want to explore the north field a bit more and a bit more with movement.

 


 


Jope2209 #45 Posted 12 November 2018 - 02:30 AM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 11 November 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

The five light tanks were part of the original post (4-5 lights).  I only looked at winning games with 4-5 lights.  If it came up with less, then I would screw around trying different things before dying, driving off a cliff to preserve the daily double.  I could not get the CDC or Revaloise to come up with the required number of lights after about 3 times a piece.  The Hollenhund and Strv 81 had it come up first time.  

 

I do completely agree that some selectable ops are ill-designed for live fire.  I tend to not pay too much attention to the ops so long as they are reasonable within the WS--eg killing 12 in live fire is not one I tend to select. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I will look into some of these things more, though I am not one that is going to sit and play WS over and over within the same day.  I did not do the T95E2 honestly because I was bored and was not seeing the 4-5 lights often enough.  After the 5x days, I will do some more. 

 

In my screwing around parts, I found it very viable to ram/push the first groups as they pay you no attention to you whatsoever.  If you can block their shots with a bit of armor, even better.  I generally had no chance unless to shoot the yolo scount unless I had jumped the wall because the team melts him.  The heavies keeping them tracked early and back bought more time, I believe there is a trigger point in the field.  (need to investigate that more) 

 

After the field is cleared, I could take my time finishing off the arty and either hang out at the bottom or go on top.  The next three after arty are the ones that seem to me to be the most problematic and seem to be turned up in aggression.  They don't just hang around the corner or go around the south side.  It's not that they kill any of your tanks, they just come after you.  If you are on top, and don't kill one before they come around the corner, they seem particularly vicious about trying to flank you.  I don't think the Sherman is useful for cover anymore and it seems to block the shots of your green light.  The last three are so aggressive they drive off the cliff for you, so it seems a bit harder to get the damage and kills from them.  I am considering pushing that green light on top to a different position--maybe off the cliff.  For those last three, I want to explore the north field a bit more and a bit more with movement.

 

 

Did some testing today and I'm almost certain that bots are tweaked when you play TT tanks (tier VIII). Played 110 (1 out of 5 success rate), HWK 12 couldn't survive (2 games), T28 Proto (1 out of 4 with Secondary Obj. finished). Premium tanks seem to be fine now, but TT tanks have different weight I think.

 

 


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Gallant Prime #46 Posted 12 November 2018 - 02:51 AM

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View PostJope2209, on 11 November 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

 

Did some testing today and I'm almost certain that bots are tweaked when you play TT tanks (tier VIII). Played 110 (1 out of 5 success rate), HWK 12 couldn't survive (2 games), T28 Proto (1 out of 4 with Secondary Obj. finished). Premium tanks seem to be fine now, but TT tanks have different weight I think.

 

 

 

Are those fully upgraded?  And are you saying by tweaked that you get more lights?  And when you say success, are you saying finished and completed the secondary objectives?  (I think I've been misstating in saying ops instead of objectives sometimes btw)

 


 


Jope2209 #47 Posted 12 November 2018 - 07:27 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 12 November 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

 

Are those fully upgraded?  And are you saying by tweaked that you get more lights?  And when you say success, are you saying finished and completed the secondary objectives?  (I think I've been misstating in saying ops instead of objectives sometimes btw)

 

 

110 and T28 are fully upgraded, HWK 12 is new tank I've just bought, hence stock. As I mentioned, I'm mainly using WS for crew training and for upgrading bad stock packages. When I say tweaked, i mean more lights on team, on one occasion it was not 5 but 6 light tanks, but also I'm suspecting some hidden scripts taking place.

 

And yes, by success I mean completing the LFE with Secondary Objectives completed (3 allies alive and finish within time frame).

 

Also, today I've bought WZ-111-4 (while it was on -30%) and it's stock package with 75% crew on it. Tried LFE two times and I was not even close. Both times I was last green alive after the valley red bots slaughtered all greens. I think there is a hidden script which adds more light tanks and even without that, allied bots seem to be tranquilized.


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


SKYNET T92 #48 Posted 12 November 2018 - 08:41 PM

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View PostR35T NO MORE, on 09 November 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

 

Completing ops that WG added is gaming the system to you? :facepalm: gaming the system would be trying to exploit it. I'm merely trying to play the game and complete the objectives, again, set by WG.. 

 

Instead i went and played Red Dead. I gamed that system too by skinning animals to make money :ohmy:

 

 

 

 

Gallant already explained how you were working the system in WoT but if you think animal skins is the way to make quick cash in RdR2 then you're doing it wrong M8 and wasting your time for chump change.



R35T NO MORE #49 Posted 12 November 2018 - 09:06 PM

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View PostGallant Prime, on 11 November 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

 

Do you have suggestions for a low rate of fire light or medium tank?  Somewhat of an oxymoron you know.  See my next post regarding the Revaloise.  

 

Spoiler

    

I'm using the T34 and Lowe.. 

View PostSKYNET T92, on 12 November 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

Gallant already explained how you were working the system in WoT but if you think animal skins is the way to make quick cash in RdR2 then you're doing it wrong M8 and wasting your time for chump change.

Playing the game to complete the ops and objectives isn't gaming the system, it's playing the game. Gallant has stated nothing but his opinion, which is worth about as much as a fart to me. 

 

RDR1, and at the start btw.. 


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