87 replies to this topic

[Blossomy_Hippo]

I used to love this tank on pc when i started playing wot, i had it on my xbox 360 days as well, so i decided to get it on ps4 too.

Well i'm gonna say that i regret spending hours of playtime and silver to get it, as it's just not a competetive tier 10 anymore. In theory it's a very well balanced jack of all trades, in practice it doesn't have a place in the meta and i will explain why i think so.

 

On pc, even before the HD model update it used to be go to tank for all the players that liked the idea of having a very mobile heavy tank with a relatively sleek profile (except for the gigantic turret on top) and semi-reliable hull armor for city maps, something that the Patton couldn't even dream of doing back then, being a huge paper armored target. However the biggest deal breaker that made it unplayable was that even tier 7/8 standard rounds could pen it reliably aiming at the LFP and the top turret, which made it pretty pointless when playing against competent players.

Later on they gave it a massive armor buff with its HD model, making both the LFP and top turret (most of it anyway) almost impenetrable to even tier 10 premium rounds, more than 50% of the time; and so they nerfed it: made the LFP a very reasonable weakspot that even tier 8 tanks can use with some careful aiming (as it should be IMO, tanks NEED weakspots) and nerfed the top turret again to a middleground between hyper buffed and original paper armor values. That also was fine because most tier 8 and 9 tanks would have to use premium rounds to hope for a 100% pen rate and tier 10s would have a pretty fair chance (i'd say about 70%) of penning with standard ammo at normal ranges, which is fair considering it's way too easy to hit and there's no way for an E5 driver to hide it completely even in a sidescrape. Sure, HEAT spam would send you back to the garage in just a couple of minutes considering the low HP pool, but it still was the best tank to act as both an occasional frontline brawler, a dpm machine and an improptu medium flanker: DPM was godlike, gun depression used to be quite a unique feature amongst tier 10 heavies and mobility was pretty much top tier, you traded armor for all that.

 

A few patches and years later it's become pointless: Super Conq is pretty much what the E5 strives to be, except it does everything better (much better) and has some of the Best frontal armor in the game, with no apparent tradeoff (i guess the E5 does have 3/4 kph top speed advantage lol), the Chieftain, 5A and 277 all do a better job of playing the medium on steroids role, while also having reliable turrets. Finally the updated M48 is just a better pick if you're into american jack of trades type of tanks.

So why keep playing the E5 when you could get one of those and get better results? Honestly i don't have an answer, i guess i'll keep playing it because i have a soft spot for it and that's it.

 

As for how i would fix it: 9/10 deg of gun depression and lower profile tumor on the top, same armor values. Hell i could even accept a moderate armor nerf if they made it as hard to hit as it is on the updated M48.

 

Sorry for long text, but i feel like i would get dismissed if i didn't explain my reasoning.

[John Arrowsmith]

Try playing the type 5 op.  Then come back and tell us how bad the E5 is.

[Blossomy_Hippo]

John Arrowsmith, on 04 December 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

Try playing the type 5 op.  Then come back and tell us how bad the E5 is.

 

So your only argument is that there are other tanks that have it worse? Doesn't change the fact that the new tanks are TOO good compared to the older ones.

[SGT Rock 1963]

430U is a medium ( pocket heavy) that outclasses every heavy tank. There is your number 1 powercreep. I think E5 is still top 5.

[John Arrowsmith]

Blossomy_Hippo, on 04 December 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

 

So your only argument is that there are other tanks that have it worse? Doesn't change the fact that the new tanks are TOO good compared to the older ones.

 

this isn't anything new, but the E5 is still a good tank.

 

 

What would your proposal be, just keep buffing tanks rather than  find some kind of balance?

[Blossomy_Hippo]

John Arrowsmith, on 04 December 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

 

this isn't anything new, but the E5 is still a good tank.

 

 

What would your proposal be, just keep buffing tanks rather than  find some kind of balance?

 

Well nerfing or remodeling the broken tanks is the sensible choice, but we all know WG is not about sensible choices. My suggestion for the E5 in particular is to simply resize the top turret maybe even nerf its armor,but make it somewhat of a skill shot because it honestly bugs me that i have no chance of outplaying anyone that has a half functioning brain, no matter how well i play, because they just need to load HEAT and wait for me to make any kind of play that would involve pointing my gun at their tank. Then i spectate some scrub in a Sp. Conqueror bouncing TDs for days while just sitting there.

 

As for the Type 5, my only opinion is that it should even be in the game in the first place.

Edited by Blossomy_Hippo, 04 December 2018 - 10:41 PM.

[TsprinTs]

Try the Chieftain if you complain about the E5.

SConq is slow. A lot slower than E5.

E5 is not as broken as before.

[HEAT--54]

The E5 is not “outclassed”, it is still a very good heavy.

The cupola needed to be nerfed. You could just about bend anyone in front of you to your will.

[Blossomy_Hippo]

HEAT--54, on 04 December 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

The E5 is not “outclassed”, it is still a very good heavy.

The cupola needed to be nerfed. You could just about bend anyone in front of you to your will.

 

Never said it's bad, it's actually good. 

However if you play competetively or simply like to carry pubbies, there are far superior tanks that play exactly the same and either have no drawbacks or much more negligible ones.

When you are literally forced to play 2/3 tanks per class if you want to get the best results, that is the definition of power creep.

[radonism]

Blossomy_Hippo, on 04 December 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

Never said it's bad, it's actually good. 

However if you play competetively or simply like to carry pubbies, there are far superior tanks that play exactly the same and either have no drawbacks or much more negligible ones.

When you are literally forced to play 2/3 tanks per class if you want to get the best results, that is the definition of power creep.

 

Genuine question. Which 2 or 3 T10 heavies would you rate better?

 

[I44I Warlock]

E5 is still one of the best T10 tanks, it's just not op anymore.

[Raekju]

HEAT--54, on 04 December 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

The E5 is not “outclassed”, it is still a very good heavy.

The cupola needed to be nerfed. You could just about bend anyone in front of you to your will.

 

Yup, it was way too powerful before it's cupola got nerfed. I literally just drove at people and they couldn't pen me.

 

Blossomy_Hippo, on 04 December 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

Never said it's bad, it's actually good. 

However if you play competetively or simply like to carry pubbies, there are far superior tanks that play exactly the same and either have no drawbacks or much more negligible ones.

When you are literally forced to play 2/3 tanks per class if you want to get the best results, that is the definition of power creep.

 

Not true at all. The E5 is still one of the better heavies in the game. It has a solid turret, great gun handling across the board, good dpm, and really good frontal hull armor. If you use the tanks to it's strengths it is still very competitive. The reason the tank is no longer used in competitive play is because it's jack of all trades tank. Specialized tanks are always preferred because they play one role really well and only need to play that one role.

[Blossomy_Hippo]

radonism, on 04 December 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

 

Genuine question. Which 2 or 3 T10 heavies would you rate better?

 

 

Sp. Conq.

5A

IS-7

[ThermalStone]

It's a generalist in a tier of specialists.  I could have done without the walls of text.

[ATHFjman18]

I44I Warlock, on 04 December 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

E5 is still one of the best T10 tanks, it's just not op anymore.

 

This. 

 

Although the M48 Patton is now the best tier X American non-autoloading heavy tank... 

[Blossomy_Hippo]

SHRiIVIP, on 05 December 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

 

Yup, it was way too powerful before it's cupola got nerfed. I literally just drove at people and they couldn't pen me.

 

 

Not true at all. The E5 is still one of the better heavies in the game. It has a solid turret, great gun handling across the board, good dpm, and really good frontal hull armor. If you use the tanks to it's strengths it is still very competitive. The reason the tank is no longer used in competitive play is because it's jack of all trades tank. Specialized tanks are always preferred because they play one role really well and only need to play that one role.

 

I honestly want to know why you think the E5's turret is solid. It's one of the worst for hull down/ridge fighting.

I never have a problem dealing with an hull down E5 if i'm honest, you can shoot and pen everytime before they even get their gun pointed on you, no HEAT needed either if i'm closer than 200m and pen is above 250mm. 

When [edited]hits the fan and you need to carry you have to rely on opfor making mistakes if they're driving the new top tier heavies, more than your own skill.

I mean there is a reason if you hardly see more than an E5 on your team these days and it's all Sp Conquerors, russians and chinese.

Same goes for the Maus and 215b, they're good tanks, but they get annhilated by good players in objectively better tanks, that's the problem here.

 

[Raekju]

Blossomy_Hippo, on 05 December 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

 

I honestly want to know why you think the E5's turret is solid. It's one of the worst for hull down/ridge fighting.

I never have a problem dealing with an hull down E5 if i'm honest, you can shoot and pen everytime before they even get their gun pointed on you, no HEAT needed either if i'm closer than 200m and pen is above 250mm. 

When [edited]hits the fan and you need to carry you have to rely on opfor making mistakes if they're driving the new top tier heavies, more than your own skill.

I mean there is a reason if you hardly see more than an E5 on your team these days and it's all Sp Conquerors, russians and chinese.

Same goes for the Maus and 215b, they're good tanks, but they get annhilated by good players in objectively better tanks, that's the problem here.

 

 

The only time the E5 is bad at being hull down is when people sit right in front of you in between reloading and stare at you like a deer in the headlights. I've never had any trouble bouncing reliably penned when I'm hull down in my E5.

 

You don't see the E5 anymore because there are so many new lines and tanks to grind out and the E5 has been in WoT for years at this point. Most people get tired of playing the same tanks over and over. Maus has always been garbage, 215b has just been directly outclassed by the the Chieftain and now Super Conq. 215b has also had the same significant and massive problems it's always had: it's a walking fuel tank, has an abysmal ammo count, and is the epitome of an arty magnet. Your opinion isn't objective at all, seeing as many here disagree with you, it's a completely subjective view point.

[Blossomy_Hippo]

I want to point out that no one actually answered the main question yet.

As i predicted i only got called out for having a "wrong" opinion about the E5, not surprising really, yet no one brought any factual argument as to why E5 drivers should just accept the fact that they drive an inferior machine and pretend that "it's fine".

 

So let me try again: how is the E5 relevant when you can play a plethora of other tanks that play the EXACT same but 10 times better?

It's not a question of it being bad, it's matter of it being easy pickings for this new breed of weakspot-less heavy tanks, i think it's a fair question to ask.

 

[Raekju]

Blossomy_Hippo, on 05 December 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

I want to point out that no one actually answered the main question yet.

As i predicted i only got called out for having a "wrong" opinion about the E5, not surprising really, yet no one brought any factual argument as to why E5 drivers should just accept the fact that they drive an inferior machine and pretend that "it's fine".

 

So let me try again: how is the E5 relevant when you can play a plethora of other tanks that play the EXACT same but 10 times better?

It's not a question of it being bad, it's matter of it being easy pickings for this new breed of weakspot-less heavy tanks, i think it's a fair question to ask.

 

 

Is selective reading your super power? I literally listed reasons why it was still a good tank.

[Blossomy_Hippo]

SHRiIVIP, on 05 December 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

 

The only time the E5 is bad at being hull down is when people sit right in front of you in between reloading and stare at you like a deer in the headlights. I've never had any trouble bouncing reliably penned when I'm hull down in my E5.

 

You don't see the E5 anymore because there are so many new lines and tanks to grind out and the E5 has been in WoT for years at this point. Most people get tired of playing the same tanks over and over. Maus has always been garbage, 215b has just been directly outclassed by the the Chieftain and now Super Conq. 215b has also had the same significant and massive problems it's always had: it's a walking fuel tank, has an abysmal ammo count, and is the epitome of an arty magnet. Your opinion isn't objective at all, seeing as many here disagree with you, it's a completely subjective view point.

 

I'll have to disagree there.

If you want to shoot back, your top turret will always show first so that gives people time to preaim and negate your gun handling , secondly it's so big and tall and flat that it's hard to miss it if you tried, thirdly the stiff suspension, slow turret rotation and low reverse speed make it veeeeery hard to make it jiggle enough to get weird angles or make people miss.

I guess it could be hard to hit 300m away, but then again that goes for any weakspot in the game.

 

"Your opinion isn't objective at all, seeing as many here disagree with you", sorry but i've seen enough of this forum to know this is actually a great reason to disagree, seeing that most of these replies are coming from exactly the forumers i expected, no offense.