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Kleeb0rp #21 Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View PostBrass Drag0n, on 08 December 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

I thought it was a good vid - We can certainly see the parallels here on console where bad decisions get piled onto earlier bad decisions and any dissenting voices from the players are ignored and just dismissed as moaning/whining. Commander mode being a real case in point - something no-one has asked for, has taken time and resources away from improving the core game and which also takes more players away from the main multiplayer game. 

 

QB has also started an alt account to see whether it is possible to play PC WOT for free in 2018. He's admitted frequently that its a real struggle to do it and said it is no wonder new players aren't sticking with the game. He's been compiling a list of problems he seen with trying to play WOT from scratch, will be interesting to see whether WG act on his notes to them.

 

Or WG listens to what people are asking for, like the merc line, but completely bungles everything when it does get introduced and turns it into something that no one has asked for.

 

Part of the problem with new players is that there is barely any real in-game instructions on even the most basic and fundamental aspects of playing WoT. In addition with how steep and unique the learning curve is, new players don't stand a chance of competing let alone sticking around for the long haul.

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TheOnlyTrueNoob #22 Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:39 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 08 December 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

Or WG listens to what people are asking for, like the merc line, but completely bungles everything when it does get introduced and turns it into something that no one has asked for.

 

Or they make it something no one asked for and then claim we did ask for it and that they made the tanks according to player suggestions even though they seemingly can’t find any links pointing to any posts that prove that to be true. :sceptic:


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TemplarKnight75 #23 Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:40 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 08 December 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

 

Or WG listens to what people are asking for, like the merc line, but completely bungles everything when it does get introduced and turns it into something that no one has asked for.

 

Part of the problem with new players is that there is barely any real in-game instructions on even the most basic and fundamental aspects of playing WoT. In addition with how steep and unique the learning curve is, new players don't stand a chance of competing let alone sticking around for the long haul.

Honestly all this game really needs is a better new player experience warframe went through several as it improves its own steep learning curve based on player feedback and it did wonders. 



Kleeb0rp #24 Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:49 PM

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View PostSeagullOfEvil, on 08 December 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

 

Or they make it something no one asked for and then claim we did ask for it and that they made the tanks according to player suggestions even though they seemingly can’t find any links pointing to any posts that prove that to be true. :sceptic:

 

Every single thread I saw about the merc had to do with using tanks from nations who didn't have enough to make a full TT, instead they went with the fully autistic Mad Max: Fortnite Road mix and match aesthetic. My only guess would be they asked the devs who "play" this game and then ran off with that stupid idea. 

 

View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

Honestly all this game really needs is a better new player experience warframe went through several as it improves its own steep learning curve based on player feedback and it did wonders. 

 

It really does, there's too much in terms of WoT that has to be done outside of just playing the game in order to get better. 


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redshadowrider #25 Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:11 PM

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Add to all of this things that WG actually break and don't fix, and it becomes pretty sad commentary.  E.g.  Sniper view after getting killed, base timer, etc.
I'm just saying.....

TheOnlyTrueNoob #26 Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:15 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 08 December 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

 

Every single thread I saw about the merc had to do with using tanks from nations who didn't have enough to make a full TT, instead they went with the fully autistic Mad Max: Fortnite Road mix and match aesthetic. My only guess would be they asked the devs who "play" this game and then ran off with that stupid idea. 

 That’s what I saw as well, but I guess in the classic WGCB way of making it clear that “we’re different!” they decided to make it completely comical and ridiculous instead.


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TemplarKnight75 #27 Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:39 PM

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View PostSeagullOfEvil, on 08 December 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

 That’s what I saw as well, but I guess in the classic WGCB way of making it clear that “we’re different!” they decided to make it completely comical and ridiculous instead.

Merc tanks makes sense from a game design perspective and gives opportunity to have interesting tanks using existing parts. It's using existing assets and still keeps them at least within the realms of reason. The merc tree as is has much more potential than a small shattering of mostly reskinned TT tanks at lower tiers. Instead of the constant negativity and doom why not embrace it and maybe even think of tanks you'd never get to see elsewhere that are possible with mercs. WOT won't survive simply sticking to the same old formula with little deviation or anything unique. Change doesn't have to be bad if you don't let it. 



GUSTO 24 7 #28 Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:49 PM

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View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

Merc tanks makes sense from a game design perspective and gives opportunity to have interesting tanks using existing parts. It's using existing assets and still keeps them at least within the realms of reason. The merc tree as is has much more potential than a small shattering of mostly reskinned TT tanks at lower tiers. Instead of the constant negativity and doom why not embrace it and maybe even think of tanks you'd never get to see elsewhere that are possible with mercs. WOT won't survive simply sticking to the same old formula with little deviation or anything unique. Change doesn't have to be bad if you don't let it. 

 

But sometimes the change is just bad, they took the the easy route and implemented it poorly, and have alienated a lot of players in the process.

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TheOnlyTrueNoob #29 Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:57 PM

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View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Merc tanks makes sense from a game design perspective and gives opportunity to have interesting tanks using existing parts. It's using existing assets and still keeps them at least within the realms of reason. The merc tree as is has much more potential than a small shattering of mostly reskinned TT tanks at lower tiers. Instead of the constant negativity and doom why not embrace it and maybe even think of tanks you'd never get to see elsewhere that are possible with mercs. WOT won't survive simply sticking to the same old formula with little deviation or anything unique. Change doesn't have to be bad if you don't let it. 

 

I'm fine with change but mercs was a lazy, poorly implemented mess. The tanks look ridiculous and the contracts are boring grindfests. Throwing a bunch of random assest together from pre existing tanks to make a "new" tank may be innovative and a new direction for the game but that doesn't make it good.

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Kleeb0rp #30 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:01 PM

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View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Merc tanks makes sense from a game design perspective and gives opportunity to have interesting tanks using existing parts. It's using existing assets and still keeps them at least within the realms of reason. The merc tree as is has much more potential than a small shattering of mostly reskinned TT tanks at lower tiers. Instead of the constant negativity and doom why not embrace it and maybe even think of tanks you'd never get to see elsewhere that are possible with mercs. WOT won't survive simply sticking to the same old formula with little deviation or anything unique. Change doesn't have to be bad if you don't let it. 

 

I'm sorry, but [edited] that. What on earth do you see in the realms of reason with literally any one of the 3 new merc premium tanks?

 

When you make a quick and very blatant cash grab to finish out contracts immediately on tier 9 and 10 merc tanks, that is literally paying your way to tier 10, while making those tanks some of the most horrendous looking abominations I think I've ever seen, they can't be surprised when people aren't happy. You honestly want people to support this decision? WoT PC has no merc tanks and a vastly more populated player base. Unique doesn't mean good the same way change doesn't either. Change doesn't have to be bad, but these merc tanks are.


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TemplarKnight75 #31 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:02 PM

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View PostGUSTO 24 7, on 08 December 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

But sometimes the change is just bad, they took the the easy route and implemented it poorly, and have alienated a lot of players in the process.

The easy route would have been just the reskinned merc tree people wanted the merc tanks take much more effort to implement. And a people are choosing to be alienated. I find it hard no one has any tank combinations that came to mind at the thought. Face reality there aren't enough real tanks blueprints or otherwise for significant enough content that pc isn't already working on. But withers now the console team has a unique console exclusive idea that even allows for players to give ideas for new tanks that wouldn't be possible otherwise. My gf really wants a tiger with an is3 turret. I know I kinda want  to see a cool Chinese type 59 merc. No it's not the change members of the community wanted but they're here now so what makes more sense continuing to complain or embracing it and trying to shape the mercs into something you'd enjoy? I'm not saying like it or leave it but mercs as they are have really great potential especially for adding longevity to the tank pool. 



TemplarKnight75 #32 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:22 PM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 08 December 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

 

I'm sorry but [edited]that. What on earth do you see in the realms of reason with literally any one of the 3 new merc premium tanks?

 

When you make a quick and very blatant cash grab to finish out contracts immediately on tier 9 and 10 merc tanks, that is literally paying your way to tier 10, while making those tanks some of the most horrendous looking abominations I think I've ever seen, they can't be surprised when people aren't happy. You honestly want people to support this decision? WoT PC has no merc tanks and a vastly more populated player base. Unique doesn't mean good the same way change doesn't either. Change doesn't have to be bad, but these merc tanks are.

Pc has been around for much longer and has a vastly different player base.  Pc is a very different beast with different goals and many problems of its own. I keep hearing mercs are lazy cash grabs as if it's actually that simple and somehow a tech tree of tanks mostly reskinned from existing ones at mostly low tiers wouldn't have been. Like mercs or not it takes more effort than simply tossing a few reskinned nation tanks up in a tree. WOT won't last long if all the team does is carbon copy pc. WOT won't last if they don't make sure to have anything new coming in. Mercs allows for new content with less time spent on assets which means more work on balance and quality of life while still having something new in the background. There are so many actual cash grab free games out there that put little effort and just expect money and this game just isn't it. Game development takes years of long hours and little sleep just to finish the game and WOT is a live service so its in continual improvement and development. Like their changes or not it's already done and its clearly here to stay. Honestly it really does seem like this community just wants to complain because the devs aren't making the WOT they personally want.



GUSTO 24 7 #33 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:22 PM

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View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

 No it's not the change members of the community wanted but they're here now so what makes more sense continuing to complain or embracing it and trying to shape the mercs into something you'd enjoy? I'm not saying like it or leave it but mercs as they are have really great potential especially for adding longevity to the tank pool. 

Well, at least you admit it's not the change the community wanted, and if that's the case complaining is the better option for change as embracing it just means more of the same on the way. If enough people like it and pay gold to skip stages, it's mission accomplished for WG. I hope the complaining about the flood of lights from the stupid merc ops will stop them from making that mistake again, in essence shaping it into something better by complaining.


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TemplarKnight75 #34 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:30 PM

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View PostGUSTO 24 7, on 08 December 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

Well, at least you admit it's not the change the community wanted, and if that's the case complaining is the better option for change as embracing it just means more of the same on the way. If enough people like it and pay gold to skip stages, it's mission accomplished for WG. I hope the complaining about the flood of lights from the stupid merc ops will stop them from making that mistake again, in essence shaping it into something better by complaining.

I said members not the community as a whole. There's no way of knowing besides working at WG how popular the mercs actually are or the opinion of them.  I've yet to see a tangible reason to hate mercs.  Individual ones yes some are terrible. But as an idea no. There are so many existing tanks that just mix parts already its not a huge leap to do it between nations with mercenaries in post ww3 setting. But idk maybe that's just me playing that tank game for my love of tanks and their history and not because I want a verbatim retelling of the same tank battles since the games launch



GUSTO 24 7 #35 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:32 PM

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View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

Pc has been around for much longer and has a vastly different player base.  Pc is a very different beast with different goals and many problems of its own. I keep hearing mercs are lazy cash grabs as if it's actually that simple and somehow a tech tree of tanks mostly reskinned from existing ones at mostly low tiers wouldn't have been. Like mercs or not it takes more effort than simply tossing a few reskinned nation tanks up in a tree. WOT won't last long if all the team does is carbon copy pc. WOT won't last if they don't make sure to have anything new coming in. Mercs allows for new content with less time spent on assets which means more work on balance and quality of life while still having something new in the background. There are so many actual cash grab free games out there that put little effort and just expect money and this game just isn't it. Game development takes years of long hours and little sleep just to finish the game and WOT is a live service so its in continual improvement and development. Like their changes or not it's already done and its clearly here to stay. Honestly it really does seem like this community just wants to complain because the devs aren't making the WOT they personally want.

 

People complaining that a game is going in a direction that they do not like....that's just absurd. Their work on balance and quality of life has been pretty questionable to say the least.

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Kleeb0rp #36 Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:39 PM

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View PostTemplarKnight75, on 08 December 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Pc has been around for much longer and has a vastly different player base.  Pc is a very different beast with different goals and many problems of its own. I keep hearing mercs are lazy cash grabs as if it's actually that simple and somehow a tech tree of tanks mostly reskinned from existing ones at mostly low tiers wouldn't have been. Like mercs or not it takes more effort than simply tossing a few reskinned nation tanks up in a tree. WOT won't last long if all the team does is carbon copy pc. WOT won't last if they don't make sure to have anything new coming in. Mercs allows for new content with less time spent on assets which means more work on balance and quality of life while still having something new in the background. There are so many actual cash grab free games out there that put little effort and just expect money and this game just isn't it. Game development takes years of long hours and little sleep just to finish the game and WOT is a live service so its in continual improvement and development. Like their changes or not it's already done and its clearly here to stay. Honestly it really does seem like this community just wants to complain because the devs aren't making the WOT they personally want.

 

It absolutely is. They've taken some of the best parts of existing tanks, in some cases just slapped on more spaced armor in addition, and enabled you to buy out the most significant portion of the contracts. Not to mention with the higher tier merc tanks they come with 2 crew skills already on the tank. WoT also has no hope of longevity when it continues to focus on an aspect that they completely warped like the merc tanks, as well as them implementing War Stories and Commander mode, both of which were never asked for, yet are treated as a priority over an actual balance update that doesn't just nerf tanks that require skill to use. WoT also won't last long attempting to attract a player base it never had even the tiniest sliver of hope attracting. They definitively aren't using that extra time to actually improve the game whatsoever and update 4.6 is the shining example of that. You're right that WG isn't outright in the cash grab aspect, instead what it does is grind your nerves done to the core and forces one of two decisions: quit the game or pay money to skip the frustration of the regular WoT grind, with merc contracts now included in that. Unsurprisingly, especially when it comes to the merc tanks and the reason most people started playing in general, it was to play and fight in historical tanks. Not these hodgepodge, visual abortion frankentanks they've implemented.

 

As much as I hate the entire reality that is merc tanks, they honestly don't bother me being in the game all that much. The issue is the that they are constantly made priority over the rest of the game. They've put too much focus on a tiny aspect of the game as a whole and neglected the most important aspects. Hell, the game is now called World of Tanks: Mercenaries. Just look at all the new merc premiums, they all have extra spaced armor everywhere that puts every single tank they directly compete with to shame. 


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DA Derpington #37 Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:11 AM

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View Postkromhout55, on 08 December 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

I watched it last night, to be honest I have always thought QB was a bit of a propagandist for WoTs over on PC, taking much he says with a big pinch of salt.

However, when he actually comes out with a video saying what he does in this one, then to you have to think things are getting serious.

Admittedly it is over on PC but a lot of what he says parrallels the course WoTs console seem to be following over here.

(One has to wonder what the Mercenary introduction would have looked like on one of QB's graphs?)

Which was basically why a former community contributor (AJ) left - Respect, or lack of?

 

I won't say anymore we seem to live in perilous times here on the forum.

 

Oh, before all the sugarcoaters storm in,  yes it's all my fault.

I promise I'll try to "Git Gudd" and think MM & RNG are brilliant here on console..

 

That was always my problem with QuickyBaby, he always sounded like a glove puppet for WG, but with this video, he's definitely losing his cool with what they're doing.

 

View PostDyslexsticks, on 08 December 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

Last time I saw someone post a video like this for console, they got moderated. Hmm.

 

Really? Oops... 

 

View PostSHRiIVIP, on 08 December 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

Or WG listens to what people are asking for, like the merc line, but completely bungles everything when it does get introduced and turns it into something that no one has asked for.

 

Part of the problem with new players is that there is barely any real in-game instructions on even the most basic and fundamental aspects of playing WoT. In addition with how steep and unique the learning curve is, new players don't stand a chance of competing let alone sticking around for the long haul.

 

I'm definitely with you on this, as when I first started I had absolutely no clue wthI was doing... I can safely say smashing my face against the controller would have been more useful than anything I did at that time. So I can see why any new players would be put off by it, hell even the four or five little "tutorials" there are are woefully inadequate. 

 

The other thing for WoT to survive, is they need to take on board what PUBG and Fortnite are doing and emulate it more... Because pay to win is always going to alienate certain players from ever starting a game. You just have to look at EA's approach to see how many people left in droves and that was a game you had to buy to begin with, not a free to play one like WoT supposedly is.

 

Tiers one to five atm are barren, it's exceptionally difficult to play them for a laugh unless on a weekend, even then there's weekend players which put me off doing it. Tier six is a struggle as well, but I can get the odd game depending on time of day... So most players are tiers seven through ten, which often see teams with at least five premiums per side on average (from experience) and the higher the tier, the more concentrated the gold spam. 

 

Don't get me wrong, even after four months playing, I love this game. However it does have massive patches of frustration for me and often at the fact I choose to only spend money on premium time, as I won't buy premium tanks just because of my financial situation (some are frankly ridiculously priced for something intangible).

 

P.s. pleasure playing along side you the other night SHRilVIP, just sorry I couldn't stick around and survive long enough to be of help on Malinovka.



Kleeb0rp #38 Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:14 AM

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View PostDA Derpington, on 09 December 2018 - 12:11 AM, said:

I'm definitely with you on this, as when I first started I had absolutely no clue wthI was doing... I can safely say smashing my face against the controller would have been more useful than anything I did at that time. So I can see why any new players would be put off by it, hell even the four or five little "tutorials" there are are woefully inadequate. 

 

The other thing for WoT to survive, is they need to take on board what PUBG and Fortnite are doing and emulate it more... Because pay to win is always going to alienate certain players from ever starting a game. You just have to look at EA's approach to see how many people left in droves and that was a game you had to buy to begin with, not a free to play one like WoT supposedly is.

 

Tiers one to five atm are barren, it's exceptionally difficult to play them for a laugh unless on a weekend, even then there's weekend players which put me off doing it. Tier six is a struggle as well, but I can get the odd game depending on time of day... So most players are tiers seven through ten, which often see teams with at least five premiums per side on average (from experience) and the higher the tier, the more concentrated the gold spam. 

 

Don't get me wrong, even after four months playing, I love this game. However it does have massive patches of frustration for me and often at the fact I choose to only spend money on premium time, as I won't buy premium tanks just because of my financial situation (some are frankly ridiculously priced for something intangible).

 

P.s. pleasure playing along side you the other night SHRilVIP, just sorry I couldn't stick around and survive long enough to be of help on Malinovka.

 

One of the other problems I forgot to mention was unlike most games the progression system stacks exponentially, where even if you're not a good player you'll still earn crew xp. A trained crew with even just a few perks can make a world of difference even if it's two players of the same skill level fighting one on one and the other has no skills on their crew. Since this game has been out for years the people who have stuck around now have many super crews, usually at least one per nation, if not more. As well as having the ability to have expendable silver to spam prem when needed or just when they're feeling like it. As a whole it's too difficult across the board for new players to stay around.

 

Right back at ya, and no worries, it happens to me all the time.


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dreadnought8283 #39 Posted 09 December 2018 - 01:18 AM

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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 08 December 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

 

When people have invested time and money into something, or in QB's case been able to earn money from it, then yes it does matter. Shocking that people don't want that investment to go completely to waste. :facepalm:

 

 

 

Console, by far. PC has always had a drastic numbers advantage over console.

Yup that's pretty much what I was afraid of tho I really haven't invested much into this game so it will stink to see her go, but if it happens I have other backups to play so I'll survive 



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View PostSHRiIVIP, on 09 December 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

 

One of the other problems I forgot to mention was unlike most games the progression system stacks exponentially, where even if you're not a good player you'll still earn crew xp. A trained crew with even just a few perks can make a world of difference even if it's two players of the same skill level fighting one on one and the other has no skills on their crew. Since this game has been out for years the people who have stuck around now have many super crews, usually at least one per nation, if not more. As well as having the ability to have expendable silver to spam prem when needed or just when they're feeling like it. As a whole it's too difficult across the board for new players to stay around.

 

Right back at ya, and no worries, it happens to me all the time.

 

Yeah definitely, I realised how different a ten skill Vs two skill crew was recently when I put my ten skill in an E-75 and a crappy two skill one in the Tiger 2... That was a learning curve as I didn't expect the difference to be so bloody drastic, so I can see why newbies would get out off being so heavily outclassed.  

 

Considering tiers 1-4 are seudo training tiers, I'm surprised there isn't something in place to say unskilled crews only, or a hard cap on how many skills you can take for the tiers etc. It'd definitely help the newbies out and lessen the effect of seal clubbing as well imo.

 

:facepalm: it was Murovanka anyways, not that it matters lol. I swear the game has a thing for naming maps beginning with M...






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