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xCanonfodder #1 Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:22 PM

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So after returning to the game, and spending a couple of weeks just in awe of how badly my teams are 'playing their role', I'm wondering if my preconceived notions of what each tank type's 'role' is.  I'm going to list how I thought each tank type is supposed to be played, and please tell me if my views of each role is wrong (I play each role this way, so it'll affect my gameplay).

 

Lights:  These play like how I was told Napoleonic snipers/countersnipers were used.  Thrown into a forward position to get information, snipe targets of opportunity, and to snipe other snipers.  Each tank in this group focuses on one aspect of this more than others, but as a general rule, these tanks are supposed to get there first, find out what the OP is doing, and to remove the OP's eyes.  Since they are the most mobile, they should be looking for opportunities to slip past the front lines and 'get into the cookie jar' so to speak, getting to the SPGs and the back end of TDs.

 

Mediums:  These tanks follow up the lights and get to those important points on the map until the heavies roll in and switch places with them, then they try to flank the front lines.  They are kindof the compromise between the speed of lights and the armor of heavies, with enough firepower to be a threat from a flank but going to lose against taking a heavy head to head.  The most flexible of the types, they are usually good at filling a role but not the best.  

 

Heavies:  These are the rock that everything else flows around.  The heaviest armored and with a gun that shouldn't be ignored, these roll up into positions that the lights found and the mediums held for them, and they hold the points.  That's not to say that they should be impenetrable, but that with smart placement (sidescraping, reverse sidescraping, peek-a-boom, hull down, etc) they should be hell to dislodge from a defensible position.  They also are the main impetus for a push, with the armor and hp needed to push forward while the mediums put pressure from the flanks.  If they're not top tier though (because of how armor and pen works) then they perform a role similar to a hybrid of TD's and mediums, where they're either trying to flank or using their gun to support others.  But they should never be sitting in the back with the TDs, and they shouldn't be trying to go for a fast flank because they're not fast.

 

Tank Destroyers:  These are the damage dealers.  The main thing they bring is the big guns, and they pay a price for that.  Their flanks and rear are hilariously weak, and either you'll see them from a mile away or they have paper thin armor in the front.  About as maneuverable as a medium at the fastest (and giving up any other form of real defense), they are one of the two 'cookie jars' that lights (and to a lesser extent mediums) should be going for.  But if they can keep safe and have LoF on the front, these are valuable assets to have on the team.  

 

SPGs:  These are what you use to dig out a heavy from a nigh impenetrable position.  With an alternative angle of attack they go over cover, and are supposed to break the stalemate in the front.  It's another gun being brought to bear in the fighting, and the most vulnerable vehicle on the battlefield.  If a light slips through because of a hole in the defense, a flank collapsing, or their team not caring about the 'sky cancer' , they're usually free kills.  The downsides to arty though is pretty severe.  Some of the longest reloads for single shots and some of the largest deviation in the game.  Their aim times are atrocious, and terrain can muck with them more than most other types because they have maneuverability as good if not slower than heavies.  These are the true support tanks, where if a team protects them, they can protect a team, help a push, or throw down some psychological warfare (which is the major thing with arty from what I know of in the real world, they don't get the kills as much as make morale drop for those who they are shelling).  

 

 

I know that these are generalizations, and some tanks specialize in one aspect of each of these more than others (or even just flat out ignore them), but when I play these types or see them on my team, this is what I expect out of both myself and others.  Am I wrong for these preconceptions?  


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Jope2209 #2 Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:53 PM

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Pretty much so. There are exceptions thou. Sexton US is TD disguised as arty. Best Soviet heavy is actualy a medium Obj 430 U. Best American heavy is T30 and E4 respectively. Best scout in game is medium tank, Patton M48. Best German heavy medium is E75, replacing the now obsolete E50.

And last but not least, Type 5 heavy, which is heaviest and largest medium tank in game, succesfuly hiding in heavy class for all these years.

 

Oh, almost forgot about Vivienne. It's a tier VI heavy tank in disguise as medium tank...at tier V.


Edited by Jope2209, 30 December 2018 - 04:55 PM.

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

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M4ntiX #3 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:03 PM

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FTFY

Here's what the roles look like in reality:

 

View PostxCanonfodder, on 30 December 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

Lights:  Thrown into a forward position to get information, to honorably die withing first 45 seconds of the battle.

 

Mediums:  The most flexible of the types, they are usually good at filling a role but not the best at doing it in practice. They prefer to run away when a flank is failing only to be hunted down and killed later on.

 

Heavies:  These are the rock that everything else flows around, and being a rock they take the function seriously and literally. Like a rock that does not move, they stay in base and defend it to the very end.

 

Tank Destroyers:  The main thing they bring is the big guns, and they pay a price for that - they get one-shotted by arty as soon as they decide to move.

 

SPGs:  These are what you use to dig out a heavy from a nigh impenetrable position. These are also what you use to kill off as many light tanks as possible. 

 

Edit: +1 because it's a good post and I mostly agree with what you wrote. Problem is, this information is not pinned to the WOT welcome screen while it definitely should. People generally do not know how to play their tanks.


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Neurotic Cell #4 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:09 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 30 December 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

FTFY

Here's what the roles look like in reality:

 

 

 

SPG Addendum: often used in amphibious operations at the end game, in which they drown themselves.

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SPUK4U #5 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:17 PM

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View PostxCanonfodder, on 30 December 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

I know that these are generalizations, and some tanks specialize in one aspect of each of these more than others (or even just flat out ignore them), but when I play these types or see them on my team, this is what I expect out of both myself and others.  Am I wrong for these preconceptions?  

 

I have already learned not I to expect anything from my teammates. Most of them are just like me, trying to figure out what others do and play the match based on that.  Tank classes give some idea for people what they are expected to do in the map, but it works only if they know the map and where to park the tank. Tank roles can change depending on players skills and tank's strong points so don't be surprised if you see heavy tank siting near the cap and pretending that it's a tank destroyer or light tank that plays like a medium.


Edited by SPUK4U, 30 December 2018 - 05:17 PM.

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Cpl Derren #6 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:22 PM

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Ive been making videos covering this exact thing on my channel. Next week I'll cover TDs then Arty. but right now i have HTs, MTs, and LTs already made. 

 

https://www.youtube....c4T-l2gPr58u54a

 

 


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ThunderChickenX #7 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:27 PM

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Imo there’s no point grouping roles by tank class past the early learning stages, they play too differently. It’s better to understand a tank’s individual strengths and weaknesses, as well as how those interact with different playstyles. Also, lights/fast mediums need to be significantly more careful about slipping past the front lines than most people seem to believe. TDs, Arty, base campers, people turning around, etc. are all serious threats to a light who thinks they have the run-of-the-mill just because they got past the front lines. Being alone is always dangerous.


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SPUK4U #8 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:27 PM

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View PostNeurotic Cell, on 30 December 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

 

SPG Addendum: often used in amphibious operations at the end game, in which they drown themselves.

 

Those that are amphibious are called Self-Propelled Gunboats, it's a sub class in artillery and usually driven by old sailors.

Edited by SPUK4U, 30 December 2018 - 05:30 PM.

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psmobius1 #9 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:43 PM

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Well laid out but unfortunately as long as the gamer is involved, strategy and any form of sense gets tossed out the window. I hate it when in battle and red arty are just raining down on the greens and you look around to find your 3-4 light tanks hiding in the rear and trying to snipe rather then fly up an open hole and take out the red arty and get outta there. That is what I typically try to do when playing lights, spot as many reds as I can without getting hit so my team can kill them and ultimately find and kill the red arty....I play a lot of arty and I can tell you there are many other light tank players that do the same but lately I have been seeing more and more camping lights which just boggles my mind. 

 

Another game last night, I was playing in arty when one of those arm chair generals in their mighty medium moved far to forward and got sent back to the garage when they decided it was time to plug in their mic and yell and scream at all the other players who were playing the battle correctly and winning! I said dude, relax you got yourself into a jam far ahead of any of your teamates who are racking up the kills and giving you a free win....that really set him off the deep end :). He then said we were dumb because we didn't know how to play the game and the point of the game is to charge the enemy and kill them or die trying, at that I laughed and said he was partly right but mostly wrong. At this point we were up 10-5 and this guy still wouldn't just shut up for 2 seconds. I said you are going to get a win for what little you did so why don't you let your team who are getting kills do their thing and finish the game without your noise. At this point he yelled that winning wasn't the point and not why he plays, this is tanks and tanks fight...he then was screaming so loud that you really couldn't understand him any longer so he got muted while we finished the game and handed him his free win. 

 

Okay, sorry about that, rant over. :arta:



ThermalStone #10 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:47 PM

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Don't get hung up on general tank roles.  Play according to your individual tank, play style, and the needs of the game.  For instance, heavy tank doctrine might dictate you go to Heilbronn town or Lakeville valley for some brawling when in reality you'd be more useful going to other parts of the map, even if you spend the opening stages of the game sniping or giving fire support.

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PumpkinEcobar #11 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:48 PM

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I think your list is on the right track but too short.

Scouts- Tanks with the main objective being spotting.
ex- AMX ELC

Light tanks- Mobile tanks that can deal damage.
ex- Sheridan

Extra Mediums- Mediums with scouting in mind.
ex- T25 pilot

True Mediums- Flank and support.
ex- T-34

Heavium- Heavy mediums or light heavies.
ex- T-10 or M48 Patton

Heavy Tank- Brawling, armored tanks.
ex- IS-3

Super Heavy- Rolling bunkers.
ex- Japanese Heavy tanks

Glass Cannon- Bush snipers.
ex- Borsig

Support TD- Armored TDs for front line support.
ex- Jagtiger.

I'm sure the list could go on and on.




UBERSICKO #12 Posted 30 December 2018 - 05:55 PM

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Nothing worse than heavies and lights hiding back at base, at that point I'm so pissed off my headphones come on and the abuse follows.
When a tank destroyer or arty gets spots there's something wrong with your team.

xCanonfodder #13 Posted 30 December 2018 - 06:10 PM

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View PostThunderChickenX, on 30 December 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

Imo there’s no point grouping roles by tank class past the early learning stages, they play too differently. It’s better to understand a tank’s individual strengths and weaknesses, as well as how those interact with different playstyles. Also, lights/fast mediums need to be significantly more careful about slipping past the front lines than most people seem to believe. TDs, Arty, base campers, people turning around, etc. are all serious threats to a light who thinks they have the run-of-the-mill just because they got past the front lines. Being alone is always dangerous.

 

So what are examples of lights that shouldn't play that way, heavies that are not the heaviest armored in their tier, TD's with poor guns, or arty that shouldn't be trying to dislodge people out of safe spots?  Are those exceptions though, or do they have too many that don't fit within these roles?

 

 

I do realize that lights shouldn't be zipping through the front lines recklessly.  It should only be done when safe to do so, or as a desperation move.  I'm not expecting them to push through when the teams haven't even engaged, or most of the reds are alive and I'm not going to do that.  What I am going to do though and expect my team to do, is to exploit a flank that has collapsed to get behind to the arty and ridgelines while the rest of the tanks on that side try to flank the front line.


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xCanonfodder #14 Posted 30 December 2018 - 06:31 PM

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View PostPumpkinEcobar, on 30 December 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

I think your list is on the right track but too short.

Scouts- Tanks with the main objective being spotting.
ex- AMX ELC

Light tanks- Mobile tanks that can deal damage.
ex- Sheridan

Extra Mediums- Mediums with scouting in mind.
ex- T25 pilot

True Mediums- Flank and support.
ex- T-34

Heavium- Heavy mediums or light heavies.
ex- T-10 or M48 Patton

Heavy Tank- Brawling, armored tanks.
ex- IS-3

Super Heavy- Rolling bunkers.
ex- Japanese Heavy tanks

Glass Cannon- Bush snipers.
ex- Borsig

Support TD- Armored TDs for front line support.
ex- Jagtiger.

I'm sure the list could go on and on.

 

 

As I view it, those examples that you gave still fall under each of the categories that I listed other than the Heaviums.  Heaviums are the exception in my mind, but how many of those are in the game? 


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PumpkinEcobar #15 Posted 30 December 2018 - 06:41 PM

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View PostxCanonfodder, on 30 December 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

 

As I view it, those examples that you gave still fall under each of the categories that I listed other than the Heaviums.  Heaviums are the exception in my mind, but how many of those are in the game? 

 

I'd say Heavium is the biggest group I listed. T-10, Patton, E5, Jumbo Sherman, Super Pershing, Emil 1 & 2. This list is long. 



Pontiac Pat #16 Posted 30 December 2018 - 06:42 PM

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US lights have crap camo, so they tend to play like uber fast mediums.

There are many 'heaviums' - tanks like the VK 36 (which used to be a medium tank), FCM 50, AMX 50, Type 59, etc.  Even the various Centurions can fill this roll now that they have a bouncy turret again.  Basically, any medium that you find yourself having trouble penetrating is probably a heavium candidate.  Conversely, any heavy that you find easy to penetrate with standard ammo is likely a heavium candidate as well.

Front line TDs include the UK AT line and other similar TDs.  They are basically heavy tanks without the turret.

The moral of the story is that you don't yell at someone for not doing XYZ action just because you see they are a certain class of tank.  You have to know precisely what tank they are, whether they are fully upgraded, for the lights you need to know if their crew has camo/sixth sense, and you need to consider the map.  Small maps, especially small urban maps, make playing 'roles' very difficult in many cases.

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xCanonfodder #17 Posted 30 December 2018 - 06:53 PM

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View PostPumpkinEcobar, on 30 December 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

 

I'd say Heavium is the biggest group I listed. T-10, Patton, E5, Jumbo Sherman, Super Pershing, Emil 1 & 2. This list is long. 

 

Ok, so because of this, I need to change how I view heavies and mediums?  I'm genuinely curious about that.  How should I be viewing these classes of tanks then? 

 

I'm not going to memorize every single tank in the game, there's too many for me to do that and I'm not going to limit my play to certain tiers so that the amount of tanks I need to memorize is greatly reduced.  What should I do instead?


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SPUK4U #18 Posted 30 December 2018 - 06:58 PM

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View PostxCanonfodder, on 30 December 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

As I view it, those examples that you gave still fall under each of the categories that I listed other than the Heaviums.  Heaviums are the exception in my mind, but how many of those are in the game? 

 

The first one that comes into my mind is Tier VII  Tiger 1, it's a heavy tank, but should be played like a medium tank.  Even tier V tanks can pen it's armor, sometimes it feels that only tank that can't pen are Sherman variants with 75 mm gun.  Many new players go strait to the Tiger and get disappointed by it's armor. I did it too and first three games, I got blow out by ammo rack explosions caused by tier V tanks.  Now as there are several premium versions of Tigers with same armor don't be surprised if you see Tiger 131 sitting back in the base and playing Tank Destroyer. It takes skill to play Tiger in the front line and patience to play it in the rear line.  Those rear line Tigers still get a good score when the green team falls a part and enemy rolls in to kill arty.  When I play arty, I usually leave hero to defend the doomed cap alone and go hunt enemy tanks with shotgun.

 

 


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xCanonfodder #19 Posted 30 December 2018 - 07:00 PM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 30 December 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

US lights have crap camo, so they tend to play like uber fast mediums.

There are many 'heaviums' - tanks like the VK 36 (which used to be a medium tank), FCM 50, AMX 50, Type 59, etc.  Even the various Centurions can fill this roll now that they have a bouncy turret again.  Basically, any medium that you find yourself having trouble penetrating is probably a heavium candidate.  Conversely, any heavy that you find easy to penetrate with standard ammo is likely a heavium candidate as well.

Front line TDs include the UK AT line and other similar TDs.  They are basically heavy tanks without the turret.

The moral of the story is that you don't yell at someone for not doing XYZ action just because you see they are a certain class of tank.  You have to know precisely what tank they are, whether they are fully upgraded, for the lights you need to know if their crew has camo/sixth sense, and you need to consider the map.  Small maps, especially small urban maps, make playing 'roles' very difficult in many cases.

 

So I should be ok with heavies sitting farther back than cameo based TDs, mediums that are being the only tank seen by the opponents trying to play peek-a-boom against heavies and TD's, lights that are not trying to get vision?  I'm not trying to be snarky, these are honest points that I'm trying to understand.

 

I also don't use voice chat.  I've always had a problem with voice in any online game (especially on console, where open mics are the standard), and I'm not going to change that for this game.  So no screaming from me, just seething frustration at my screen, haha. 


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deadman1921 #20 Posted 30 December 2018 - 07:02 PM

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Bottom line

You can’t tell others how to play the vehicle they are driving, period.

You can try but they are mostly not going to listen.
Then probably cuss you for pointing it out.

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