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RNG does not affect everyone equally


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JaRIS42 #21 Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:03 AM

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Something I've never been clear about with RNG is whether it's only accuracy that's randomised using normal distribution or whether things like pen and damage are as well. 

The number of high/low pen and damage rolls I've seen would lead me to believe that they're evenly distributed, i.e. an equal chance of each value. That could easily be confirmation bias though, you remember the outliers more than the normal results.

 

Edit: Can anyone confirm seeing shots pen that shouldn't have (armor plate outside of pen range) or high/low damage rolls that were out of range?


Edited by JaRIS42, 11 January 2019 - 10:08 AM.


Vampire_Izumi #22 Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:08 AM

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View PostJaRIS42, on 11 January 2019 - 07:03 PM, said:

Something I've never been clear about with RNG is whether it's only accuracy that's randomised using normal distribution or whether things like pen and damage are as well. 

The number of high/low pen and damage rolls I've seen would lead me to believe that they're evenly distributed, i.e. an equal chance of each value. That could easily be confirmation bias though, you remember the outliers more than the normal results.

 

well, sometimes bad RNG can be normal results, just depends if you feel lucky or not and bad rng usely leads to tilting.

which will make the bad RNG even worse and because of that make your Tilting worse and it endlessly continues unless, you get lucky and RNG starts loving you.

 

Then you live Happily Ever After Until Bad RNG Strikes again! 

 

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JaRIS42 #23 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:36 AM

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To be clear I'm referring to the fact that shot accuracy is based in a bell curve aka normal distribution. This means that most shots will close to the center of the aiming circle with a lower chance of the shot going there the further from the center you get.

 

I have read that the aiming circle represents two standard deviations from the point you are aiming at which means that around 5-6% of shells will go outside of the circle.

 

I'm wondering if other RNG in the game works the same way, this would mean that damage and pen rolls would tend to be nearer their center values but occasionally go above or bellow the maximum range.

 

TBH I'm pretty sure it's only accuracy that works like this or I think damage and pen would feel a lot more consistent. 



scwirpeo #24 Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:36 AM

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Shoot more HEAT then. It's not rocket science.

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Pit Friend #25 Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:32 PM

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Granted the tank with armor has more chance to be helped with RNG by its armor. That’s what armor is there for after all. The Leopard can be helped by RNG with its speed more than the Heavy though. It doesn’t matter how much armor you have if you’re not hit in the first place. 

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DA Derpington #26 Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:45 PM

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I wish people would stop whining about RNG... you don't complain about it in day to day life do you? Oh and before you say it doesn't exist in real life, yes it does... It's called random determination, in that for your action, you can't possibly take into account all of the actions and reactions of the world around you.

 

Roll a dice and predict which number comes up accurately. You can't, because the surface of the area you roll it upon, how hard you roll it, the facing of the dice as it sits in your hand as well as how it leaves your hand, is there sweat that's gathered on the dice on one particular side which can alter the weight, or is there a faint breeze drifting across the room as it rolls and alters it's course? 

 

You can only ever assess probability, as there are no certainties.

 

RNG just happens to be an approximate variable differential engine that determines cause and effect in simple terms. 

 

So your shot bounced, try again, but don't complain about it constantly...



SandM9 #27 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:00 PM

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View PostDA Derpington, on 12 January 2019 - 07:45 AM, said:

I wish people would stop whining about RNG... you don't complain about it in day to day life do you? Oh and before you say it doesn't exist in real life, yes it does... It's called random determination, in that for your action, you can't possibly take into account all of the actions and reactions of the world around you.

 

Roll a dice and predict which number comes up accurately. You can't, because the surface of the area you roll it upon, how hard you roll it, the facing of the dice as it sits in your hand as well as how it leaves your hand, is there sweat that's gathered on the dice on one particular side which can alter the weight, or is there a faint breeze drifting across the room as it rolls and alters it's course? 

 

You can only ever assess probability, as there are no certainties.

 

RNG just happens to be an approximate variable differential engine that determines cause and effect in simple terms. 

 

So your shot bounced, try again, but don't complain about it constantly...

 

So you think life is as wonky as this game?  Your life must be a waking nightmare.

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blushrts #28 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:22 PM

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View PostLordAnonII, on 11 January 2019 - 03:40 AM, said:

I often read "for every bad RNG roll you get a good one", "you only remember the bad ones", etc.

Lets be clear: Whilst RNG is equally applied to all tanks, it is far from being equally distributed.

Let me take the Leopard PTA as an example. A paper tank with a fabulous gun (view range, mobility are not affected by RNG, so not being discussed).

This tank has 71mm max armour. So even if every gun it faces maximum low rolls, virtually all shots will pen. Blocked is virtually always due to an auto bounce angle. RNG effect - negligible. Effect of removing RNG - virtually none.

Now its penetration: 268 average with a 201/335 spread. If facing a tank with 267 armour it will fail to pen approx 49% of the time. RNG effect - huge. Effect to removing RNG - (pen every time) so again huge.

The conclusion which therefore has to be drawn is that not only do heavily armoured tanks benefit from their effective armour over more lightly armoured counterparts , they also benefit disproportionately from RNG.

 

Don't badmouth WG on here either.  I'm waiting anxiously for the fire extinguisher I'm going to receive when I complete the long haul op.

TsprinTs #29 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:29 PM

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View PostLordAnonII, on 11 January 2019 - 03:40 AM, said:

I often read "for every bad RNG roll you get a good one", "you only remember the bad ones", etc.

Lets be clear: Whilst RNG is equally applied to all tanks, it is far from being equally distributed.

Let me take the Leopard PTA as an example. A paper tank with a fabulous gun (view range, mobility are not affected by RNG, so not being discussed).

This tank has 71mm max armour. So even if every gun it faces maximum low rolls, virtually all shots will pen. Blocked is virtually always due to an auto bounce angle. RNG effect - negligible. Effect of removing RNG - virtually none.

Now its penetration: 268 average with a 201/335 spread. If facing a tank with 267 armour it will fail to pen approx 49% of the time. RNG effect - huge. Effect to removing RNG - (pen every time) so again huge.

The conclusion which therefore has to be drawn is that not only do heavily armoured tanks benefit from their effective armour over more lightly armoured counterparts , they also benefit disproportionately from RNG.

I 100% agree with you.

The existing mechanic of this game put all medium (or any tank not armor dependant)  in big disadvantage.

Those hvy with 0.4 accruacy do not need to aim any week spot, as long as it hits pretty auto pen.  

0.4 to hit the whole front of a medium vs 0.3 to hit only the lower plate.  Than RNG pen goes in effect.

What a broken unbalance game it is.



JaRIS42 #30 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:44 PM

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View PostTsprinTs, on 12 January 2019 - 05:29 PM, said:

I 100% agree with you.

The existing mechanic of this game put all medium (or any tank not armor dependant)  in big disadvantage.

Those hvy with 0.4 accruacy do not need to aim any week spot, as long as it hits pretty auto pen.  

0.4 to hit the whole front of a medium vs 0.3 to hit only the lower plate.  Than RNG pen goes in effect.

What a broken unbalance game it is.

 

The game is unbalanced because armored tanks get an advantage in a toe to toe shootout? 

... GOOD. Game working as intended.



JaRIS42 #31 Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:22 PM

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View PostDA Derpington, on 12 January 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

RNG just happens to be an approximate variable differential engine that determines cause and effect in simple terms. 

 

Very much this. Something I think a lot people forget is that a real tank involves the coordinated actions of several people and that the conditions of being in a tank on a real battlefield would be confusing and limiting to the crews efficiency.

 

I've always seen RNG and limited view range (tanks "disappearing" before your eyes) as simulating the fact that a tank crew isn't one unified mind with a clear 3rd person view of the battle.



Brass Drag0n #32 Posted 12 January 2019 - 07:45 PM

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Sometimes you just have to accept that the software for RNG is just going to glitch on you from time to time and move on.

 

Just like those times when a programme you use on your laptop/PC everyday refuses to open.

 

(Of course, the fact that I just fired 11 fully aimed shots in a game and only saw 4 of them hit an enemy tank (not pen, hit) may have coloured my judgement. The one turning 90 degrees in order to avoid the tank 2 feet away being my particular favourite.) 


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Neurotic Cell #33 Posted 12 January 2019 - 07:58 PM

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While what you say is true, it is presented in a very static context which does not reflect practical application in the game.  In other words, your statement is true - cannot be argued against - but is irrelevant in the bigger picture of the game.  When we include the effect of maneuverability combined with variations in armor thickness, such as the Leo PTA performing a CoD on said heavy with lesser armored sides and rear, the differences in RNG simply don’t matter.  So I suppose what I’m saying is that your observation is accurate but I don’t understand its relevance.

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Sgt Becket FEAR #34 Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:00 PM

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The game isn't fair...so you shouldn't be to any Red either :justwait:

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Afro Palestine #35 Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View PostLordAnonII, on 11 January 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:

Whilst I totally agree with play style I am discussing the effect of RNG penetration on tank classes.

 

If the armor can be penned by anything, RNG is not a factor.   It is just bad armor.

SandM9 #36 Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:33 PM

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View PostJaRIS42, on 12 January 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

Very much this. Something I think a lot people forget is that a real tank involves the coordinated actions of several people and that the conditions of being in a tank on a real battlefield would be confusing and limiting to the crews efficiency.

 

I've always seen RNG and limited view range (tanks "disappearing" before your eyes) as simulating the fact that a tank crew isn't one unified mind with a clear 3rd person view of the battle.

 

Very much what?  The quote you're responding to, it's gibberish. 

 


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JaRIS42 #37 Posted 14 January 2019 - 04:58 AM

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View PostSandM9, on 13 January 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

Very much what?  The quote you're responding to, it's gibberish. 

 

I was skim reading tbh, I was agree with the thought (as I understood it) that RNG is there as a stand in for all of the variables and unpredictabilities of the real world that are not present in the relatively predictable world of the game.

 

Not sure what the whole imperfect dice thing added.



DA Derpington #38 Posted 14 January 2019 - 05:10 PM

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View PostSandM9, on 13 January 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

 

Very much what?  The quote you're responding to, it's gibberish. 

 

 

It isn't my fault you can't comprehend the queen's English old chap ;)

 

View PostJaRIS42, on 14 January 2019 - 04:58 AM, said:

 

I was skim reading tbh, I was agree with the thought (as I understood it) that RNG is there as a stand in for all of the variables and unpredictabilities of the real world that are not present in the relatively predictable world of the game.

 

Not sure what the whole imperfect dice thing added.

 

The dice metaphor was to show you can only predict so much before other factors take hold of a situation. 

 

Like crossing the street and predicting whether you'll be run over, there's a billion variables which have an effect on the situation that's improbable to take into account.



John-berg1995 #39 Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:13 PM

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You always remember the bad RNG but never the good ones. it's actually random RNG you're just focusing on the bad when you completely forgotten about that time you shot a blind artillery from across the map in your kv-2, but you esspecially remember low rolls that cost you games. Or shots that fly way wide costing you the game.

it gives and takes equally




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