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Nomad2001 #241 Posted 12 February 2019 - 04:54 PM

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View PostBrogueOne, on 04 February 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

Did you actually read the list of tanks you can trade in? You can trade in/up the plain versions.

 

Yes I did, but it looks like I missed the Tabs that showed other Nations. As Rosanna Rosanna Danna used to say..."Nevermind".

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Killer Mosquito #242 Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:06 PM

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Come on guys!  You are all actually surprised by this?  WG did the same with the Panzer 5/4 way back in the day,  another "rare" "never to be seen" tank and low and behold they whored that tank out for the past 5 years.  In case anyone has failed to realize this is a business and they are here to take your money and not give crap about your feelings.  This new soviet tiger is the same deal it'll be released again and if you notice they reworded it so there's room to re-release it and not have the backlash they are having over the Black Tanks.  


Nomad2001 #243 Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:08 PM

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View PostI44I Warlock, on 04 February 2019 - 05:00 AM, said:

Tbf a lot of players requested this .

 

Would be interesting to know which tanks we can trade in for the black editions? 

 

Really? To Be Fair a lot of people have been asking for this?  Where's the data on these statistics? "Me and my 5 friends asked...therefore a lot of people have asked for it". To Be Fair would be to honor the original marketing of the tanks involved that they were a limited edition Tank available at a very high cost and only at the time offered in celebration of 100 years of tanks (not 102 years of tanks like now). You obviously didn't purchase the originals and want them, so you think it's fair to be offered the tanks now. 

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Nomad2001 #244 Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:16 PM

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View PostKiller Mosquito, on 12 February 2019 - 09:06 AM, said:

Come on guys!  You are all actually surprised by this?  WG did the same with the Panzer 5/4 way back in the day,  another "rare" "never to be seen" tank and low and behold they whored that tank out for the past 5 years.  In case anyone has failed to realize this is a business and they are here to take your money and not give crap about your feelings.  This new soviet tiger is the same deal it'll be released again and if you notice they reworded it so there's room to re-release it and not have the backlash they are having over the Black Tanks.  

 

You forgot the Gorynych in that. Only available if you buy the 4 Monster Tank Bundle. How many times has that been offered for sale now, and at one point offered as a tank to win by OP? It's not surprising, it's the fact that they are doing it and they need to hear from us that we're not ok with it. Sure, there's nothing we can do about it, except not purchase from them, but that defeats the purpose of wanting to play the game if they go under.Suggestions such as Creating a new line of Black tanks was a good idea. That is what WG needs to take away from the people's complaints. An Emblem doesn't placate a damaged sense of trust. If you want to have your player base believe you, you have to give them reason to.

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Nomad2001 #245 Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:26 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 04 February 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

 

Well.....     there are Trade Ins and there are Trade Ins. 

 

How it should work: Regular T34 is 12,000 gold, Black edition is 14,400. Trade in regular T34 + 2,400 Gold difference and receive Black T34. Which still represents spending almost $10 to upgrade the tank that I already owned. This is what everybody wanted to do back when the Black tanks originally came out, and it would have been very fair and very profitable to WG to do it this way. 

 

How it will probably work: Get half of T34 value aka 6,000 Gold value for the trade in against the 14,400 Black T34 price, end up paying 8,400 Gold to get the Black T34. Which represents spending about $34 to upgrade the tank. 

 

At a $10 price point for trading in an IDENTICAL tank I'd probably do it a few times.

 

At $34 PER TANK to get nothing more than a bit of extra XP for crew training (which I do not need for these nations).........    not a chance, and if anyone chose to remain insulted by the whole Black Tanks thing I would understand. 

 

Agreed. There should be just this sort of logic applied to trade-ins. 

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Nomad2001 #246 Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:09 PM

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View Postpsmobius1, on 04 February 2019 - 07:13 AM, said:

Well it is about dang time they finally listened up to the majority of players but don't limit them to only trade-in purchases. Some players may not want to trade in the stock version for the black version and should have a choice. I was out of town when they were first released and only had a limited amount of gold in my account so I was only able to get the STA black version tank at that time via my laptop. If i would have been able to purchase gold without being on my console then I would have had all of them. And no, I don't feel the need to complain or ask to be compensated because I already own one of them but I do want to thank WG for finally unleashing the reins on the ones I missed at the time so I can finally add them to my collection.  

I understand everyone's excitement about being able to get these tanks, I've taken advantage since I didn't have 2 of them. Here's what I don't understand about your comment..."Some players may not want to trade in the stock version for the black version". Why on earth would you play the stock version if you have the Black Version? It get's more XP, Silver, and Crew training than the stock version. Crew Training is based on XP earned in battle, so if your tank is getting 75% more XP in 1 version of the tank, why would you play the other? Oh, BTW, you do have a choice of tanks to trade https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/best-trade-deal

You've been playing since January of 2016, so you weren't around for the Rare and Limited time only "Freedom" in year 1. Every year it comes out for sale on the 4th again. You weren't around for the Original Monster Tank Bundle where there were 4 Monster Tanks available to purchase, but if you bought all 4 of them you would be able to get the Gorynych. A tank that would "only be available if you purchased the bundle of 4 tanks". How many times has that tank been made available just since you've been playing? 

It is a good thing that WoT is adding new things to keep us interested, but at the same time they have to keep their integrity. I thank them for making my collection complete now (STA-2 Black, and T-34-3 Black), but I am a bit insulted that a "special emblem" is supposed to placate me. Sure I'll take the Emblem, free is free. Does it equate to the same as a broken promise? Not even close.


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Nomad2001 #247 Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:33 PM

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View PostRaiBOT01, on 04 February 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

 

You can.  All the tanks you mentioned qualify for trade-in :) 

https://console.worl...best-trade-deal

 

View PostRonin Gaidin, on 04 February 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

Unfortunately, No, he can't. Not in the sense he is talking about. He CAN lose half the value of his original IS-6 and apply it towards the purchase of a full price Black IS-6. He can NOT pay the difference between the prices (14,160 - 11,800 = 2,360) to have his existing IS-6 "upgraded" to the Black version. That's paying about $10 to transition to the Black version, which a lot of people would do. 

 

Incidentally, that would be rather fair. But the Trade In program asks people to throw away 5,600 gold in value (roughly $24 for this tank) then pay an additional ~$10 per tank in upcharge. Essentially pay around $35 worth of Gold to get a Black paint job and some bonus crew training on a tank that they already owned and paid for.  

 

And that, a lot of people will NOT do (including myself) and will kinda resent (which I also kinda do - seriously, this answer was proposed all the way back then the problem first happened and would be pretty fair and profitable to all parties concerned). 

 

View PostIceFrogger1313, on 04 February 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

 

Yep. This shows that WG never really understood what people were upset about the first time they released these tanks...

 

1.) People who already own them are essentially being asked to pay again for the same tank with a slightly better bonus. Even with trade-in it can add up to more than a same tier prem tank. (T34-->T34 Black: 14400 cost - 6000 refund = 8400 gold to pay. Or you could keep the T34 and buy another tank at full price like Super Pershing. You'll even have enough left over to prema camo it. And that's not counting gold lost if you had perma camo on the T34 already).

 

2.) The high free XP/crew XP from that multiplier makes other tanks obsolete. Why play 20 matches in my Iron Rain or Skorpion G when I could get the same CXP/FXP from 10-12 battles in a Lowe Black.

 

Just when I was starting to feel the goodwill again...

 

RaiBot I know you're trying to field all the responses both positive and negative. I want you to know that while yes, I'm disappointed in this turn of events, it's not surprising since you are a business and need to make money. The main goal of any business is to make money. With that being said, The bitterness of one bad experience outweighs the sweetness of a thousand good ones. Look at how many bad decisions that have been controversial that WoT has made since going live. Buffs on tanks that were OP already, Nerfs on tanks that were just fine. Tanks that were to be one of a kind and never offered up again being offered up. Mini games being developed when there are bugs in the live game (most recently faux Fall out). 

 

The theory of bringing back Black edition tanks was in essence sound. How you did it was not. You should have done a 5 year Black Edition Tank for each Nation currently represented. This would have kept the integrity of your company by not making the 100 Year Anniversary Tanks available, but at the same time generating excitement and cash flow for the whole player base. It's tough to say no to all those people that say "I wasn't able to get the tank", "I wasn't able to buy it because I wasn't playing tanks then", etc. etc. etc. Here's the deal, If you want to generate the maximum amount of interest for an item for sale, if you say it's unique, it has to stay unique. Otherwise, people will not buy it on release, thinking it will be on the deal of the week soon, or it will come up again at a lower price, or I can win it in an OP. 

 

If you look at my gamer tag it says Beta Tester, and you look at my signature and it has the Super Tester Badge that shows I was a platoon leader. One of the main reasons I quit being a Super Tester was that I couldn't justify to my friends that I played with on a daily basis, why WoT was doing things that made no sense. I would get all kinds of questions as to what was on your mind? Why did they do this? Frankly there were lots of elements that went into the game that we as testers said the players aren't going to like, and they didn't, and WoT eventually changed. I was proud to be a ST and BT, but towards the end I didn't even want people to know I was one. 

 

I do want to say that the Trade In program has definitely improved from it's first roll out (you listened to the feedback), but it's still not refined. Ronin has a point when he states that we should be doing an upgrade charge, not selling for 1/2 price and then having to pay again for the tank. Quantity of upgrades would generate the income you're looking for. This is for like tanks only. I'm not saying you should get full price on a tier VI light tank and have a small upgrade for a tier VIII TD. All of the Black Tanks have a Premium counterpart, and if you're making the Black version available, you should give full credit for it's regular edition.

 

IceFrogger  says "Just when I was starting to feel the goodwill again...", which is how many of us feel. The new OP structure, the new ideas on trade ins generate interest with us old time players and bring something new to the table, but then you don't take into account what you just did to us when implementing a program like this. You took that feeling of us starting to "trust" you again, and smashed it against the rocks.

Crucial components of "Integrity" are:

1) Doing something when you say you're going to do it.

2) Not doing something when you say you're not going to do it.

3) Defining clearly what you're going to do, and what you're not going to do.

 

Don't hide behind vague terms such as "Rare". What does rare mean? Does it mean it's only going to be offered this one time only? Does it mean that once every 2 years it's going to be offered up for sale?

That's the most frustrating thing for me. I know I've said it many times before, but the "Freedom" in year 1 was promoted as "Rare, Limited Edition" which lead me and many others to believe it would never be offered again.

The "Gorynych", first promoted as only available if you purchase the 4 Monster Tank Bundle. Well we all know how that went as well. Offered for Free by OP, reduced price on Deal of the Week, offered up just for sale.

There are of course others, but these were definitively stated that they wouldn't be offered any other way (like the Black Edition Tanks).

 

A bit off topic, but please put the Skulls back on the Hollenhound. It looks incomplete without them. If a parent is offended by the skull being on there, then maybe their child shouldn't be playing this game of Death and Destruction. What's next? Taking away the Emblems that utilize Skulls, or the Flags that have them? Come on, this is too much. It's for a mature audience, let us be mature. We can handle skulls.


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real FUGAR #248 Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:37 PM

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View PostKiller Mosquito, on 12 February 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

Come on guys!  You are all actually surprised by this?  WG did the same with the Panzer 5/4 way back in the day,  another "rare" "never to be seen" tank and low and behold they whored that tank out for the past 5 years.  In case anyone has failed to realize this is a business and they are here to take your money and not give crap about your feelings.  This new soviet tiger is the same deal it'll be released again and if you notice they reworded it so there's room to re-release it and not have the backlash they are having over the Black Tanks.  

 

Russian Tiger. Hear Hear, they never say never again! 

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Nomad2001 #249 Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:14 PM

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View Postleova, on 04 February 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

This is a great program :)

 

Trade-in is good, TONS more options to trade in now

Black Tanks for tradein is fine, the people whining and crying that "boohoo i spent $$$ to be better than everyone else and now im not special anymore" can keep crying :P

 

Folks that just recently started playing deserve the chance to experience some of the old cool tanks, so to deny them is selfish and egotistical

 

Nicely done WG :)

 

Edit: Unfortunately, the list of AVAILABLE tanks is WAY, WAY smaller this time around! What gives??? :unsure:

 

Leova. Trade ins are a good idea, yes. The implementation is flawed. True, when you trade in a "real" vehicle, you don't get original paid price for it, and I'm ok with that if you're trading fairly. 

You're whole premise of "Boo Hoo I spent $$$ to be better than everyone else" is wrong, since premium tanks don't give you an advantage in actual battle, presumptuous, and "egotistical" on your part. 

Who made you the Deity in charge to label whether or not someone can feel cheated (which they were)? The whole Sales Advertising Point of the Black Edition Tanks was that they were "Only for Celebration of 100 Years of Tanks, and would never be offered again". There are many games out there that if you weren't playing at the time of a give away, or during a promotional period, you just don't get that item (ever).  If you don't have the capacity to show empathy to those that have been lied to, then you don't deserve your self imposed "God Like Status", and have no right to judge. People like you with 12,895 (current) posts are why people like me don't post on the forums. You think because you have so many posts you're an expert, and our opinions don't matter, but in reality you spend more time on the forum than in battle (11,246 battles). You even contradict your own post with your edit (Tons more options for trade ins, to Unfortunately, the list of AVAILABLE tanks is WAY, WAY smaller this time around! What gives???). I know, nit picking, but hey, isn't that what you're doing to us who are complaining?

The new OPs format is great! The new idea of Trade Ins is great!, but you can't alienate a large portion of your player base. In the long run, it only hurts initial sales of a new tank if people think (and history now shows it to be true), I can wait until later to purchase it at a lower price, or it might even be on an OP to win for free. If you want your customers to feel like they're getting a good deal the first time around and want them to purchase new tanks upon roll out, you can't have a history of cheating them (unfortunately history is not in WoT favor). You can attack all of us for saying "hey wait a minute, you said this was a once in a limited period of time offer", but that still doesn't make it, or you, right. I suppose that if you were at a grocery store and bought an item for one price, and your friend standing behind you bought the exact same item for less money you wouldn't speak up because that would be "whining". Standing up for what you were promised is not "Whining", is not "selfish", and certainly isn't "egotistical".


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Nomad2001 #250 Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:35 PM

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View PostRonin Gaidin, on 04 February 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

 

I see where it says Silver for equipment and ammo, but I do not see where it addresses trading in a vehicle that is worth more than the vehicle being purchased. 

 

Going on my experience with the trade ins, there aren't any tanks that you get more gold for the traded in tank than what the tank you're purchasing costs. I just may not be buying the right tanks, but every tank I've looked at costs more than the gold you would receive from trading in a tank. I would like to see multiple tanks being able to be traded in, but that won't generate new sales for WG so that won't happen.

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Nomad2001 #251 Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:46 PM

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View PostVery Classy, on 04 February 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

 

I don't think I paid more than 8,000 for my STA-2 Black. Seemed to be the best fit for me... and then they buffed it two or three times... to make it the best purchase I've made in this game.

 

Here's original post by Paingod https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/black-friday-2016. It give details on pricing and discounts, etc. 

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Nomad2001 #252 Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:59 PM

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View PostSightlessRogue0, on 04 February 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

When I started playing WOT I would have liked to have one of these black tanks.

Today I find them less interesting, firstly because I use a little different crew because I play mostly with premium tank. Secondly the choice of black tank is very limited and I have many better tank in my garage.

 

But OK. if the program allows me to exchange a tank that I like less and that takes the dust in my garage against another more interesting to play, why not.

 

The issue is not with the trade in program. The exchange program is a good idea. The issue is where WoT as a selling point, stated clearly that these tanks will never be available again. Now they are available. https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/black-friday-2016 this link shows the original selling points on these tanks.

I think that Hypocrite on post #140 page 7 of this thread does a real good job of describing the way most of us feel.


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GameWinner_001 #253 Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:11 PM

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View PostNomad2001, on 12 February 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

 

Really? To Be Fair a lot of people have been asking for this?  Where's the data on these statistics? "Me and my 5 friends asked...therefore a lot of people have asked for it". To Be Fair would be to honor the original marketing of the tanks involved that they were a limited edition Tank available at a very high cost and only at the time offered in celebration of 100 years of tanks (not 102 years of tanks like now). You obviously didn't purchase the originals and want them, so you think it's fair to be offered the tanks now. 

 

This is of course not the whole data, but this poll is already something:

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/214543-poll-1-shall-black-tanks-return-2-shall-new-black-tanks-be-released-for-the-remaining-and-coming-nations

 

111 members voted:

about 41% did not want a return of black tanks.

about 34% wanted a return of black tanks.

and about 25% did not care whether black tanks return or not.

------------->  According to this poll the players who were against a return of black tanks are the clear minority (but admittedly still quite a big minority).

 

Apart from this poll we had numerous threads in the forums of players asking for black tanks in the past years.

We also had players in the streams asking.

(And according to Raibot also a lot of players who asked via PM.)

 

And then there is the following point: Collecting something only makes sense if players have the impression that everything is somehow reachable to some degree.

So it was a good decision for the game as a whole to correct the mistake of "never to be sold again".

(And if I read the advertisement of the T-VI-100 I have the feeling they have learned something out of the black tanks' advertisement - "sold only once this year".)

 

I just think WG should offer something nice (not only emblems) to the people who have bought the black tanks just because they thought these tanks would be offered only once.....  such a gesture would make a very good impression on the community as a whole, I think.

 

(I bought the black tanks in 2016 and I like it a lot that they have been brought back. That was a very tough decision for WG, but it was a very good one. Somebody at WG really has quite some courage.)

 

 



Nomad2001 #254 Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:28 PM

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View PostHypocrite, on 04 February 2019 - 02:39 PM, said:

Howdy Rai, Max, Pain, etc.

 

I first read this at around 7:30 this morning when I decided to check the forum while waiting for a database to download; it came as a bit of a shock, and for once I was unsure exactly how I felt about one of WGCB's Game/Marketing decisions.

 

Hypocrite's post is number 140 on page 7 of the thread. I didn't include the whole post because it is lengthy. I suggest reading it, because it is very accurate.

 

Hypocrite - Thank you for your words regarding this. I think that you nail it down pretty well when stated that the whiners were rewarded, and it was the Vocal Minority that consider themselves to be the Community. I see people on here that have 2 sometimes 3 times more posts than actual Battles. These "players" consider themselves to be the pulse of the community, when the majority of the players don't bother with the forums. Why don't they bother with the forums? Because they get blasted by the "Community". 

 

I am upset by them offering it up again, but I don't go out and get a tank right away now either. There have been many tanks now that Have been "Limited Editions", that weren't so "Limited". I just want WoT to have some integrity. Without Integrity the game is going to go belly up. As you pointed out, this company is in it to make a profit. If people don't buy your product, you go out of business. 


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DUTCHMASTER803 #255 Posted 13 February 2019 - 05:28 AM

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Wow this is a slap in the face . Why don't you tell the new 2 million customers that we shelled out $250 for 7 lame emblems!!!! Honestly you can take it and stick it. Were you even around back in the day you guys gave away gold daily.  you guys were so hard pressed for paying customers you gave it away for free. It was my mistake thinking that we were investors not customers however you guys could care less why don't we get to keep the logos and they the new players get the new logos there's no recognition that we paid for  once in a lifetime released tanks.  well good luck I have 100 days left of Premium Time and it's adios.  I do want to say thanks for a great 5 years I've learned a lot and had lots of great games, i even earned a Rasinis Heroes medal.  but I can no longer conduct business with you guys. Oh and Jamaica still needs a flag.  Salutations


LucanValkyrie #256 Posted 13 February 2019 - 06:14 AM

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I havn't read all the posts on this subject,but I'm a little unclear on the bonus's on the black tanks. They offer extra XP,however,it doesn't actually mean CREW XP does it?

GameWinner_001 #257 Posted 13 February 2019 - 08:12 AM

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View PostLucanValkyrie, on 13 February 2019 - 07:14 AM, said:

I havn't read all the posts on this subject,but I'm a little unclear on the bonus's on the black tanks. They offer extra XP,however,it doesn't actually mean CREW XP does it?

 

the total xp a tank earns also goes to 100% into the crew.  ----> that makes the black tanks the best crew trainers.



DavePanzerXBOX #258 Posted 21 February 2019 - 05:22 PM

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If we can get past the broken promises and he-said, she-said, here is why I think they did this return of Black tanks:  TO even the players out more.

 

Anyone who bought the Blacks back in the day, and paid dearly for the 175% crew XP boost, has reaped this reward for quite some time now.

 

However, anyone who missed out, for whatever reason, does not have this advantage, and the advantage being a good crew trainer.

 

Anyone who knows this game knows crew XP is up there, perhaps more valuable than gold rounds and your ability to aim and hit a moving target.  Crew skills means whether you get lit or not in a TD or scout, whether you spot someone before they spot you, whether that bush is hiding you tonk or not...

 

The current Black owners have had an nice advantage, but WG perhaps though it was time to open the Black crew trainers up again, and make some $$$ at the same time.  I am one of those people, I now get some crew trainer tonks to use, and I traded my non-blacks for blacks ASAP, no questions or remorse.  Yes, I got a better deal that the original purchasers, but the original guys also got 1+ years worth of 175% crew XP on these vehicles, and now their advantage is over, for those that can afford to upgrade or outright buy these vehicles.  I also do not doubt there will be another offering, at some point in the future.  I came from the PC version, where owning the Chinese Type 59 was one of the most coveted tanks, and guess what happened over there...???  And all that went down before they ported to console.  For the record, my PC account creation date for this account is about 2 weeks prior to the official launch, so I was in beta test, look me up as DavePanzer or DavePanzerLeague on PC and see for yourself, I go back to 2011 with WG.  This is typical, nothing new to see here, go back to grinding your crews.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 



 


Efreet Nacht #259 Posted 22 February 2019 - 08:17 PM

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    02-15-2014
As an owner of the original black friday sale tanks, I’m not fond on the decision of WG to bring them back. It would’ve been fair to us that bought them back in the day, to leave them as the only true rare premium tanks on the game as promised. I have to agree with the comments that it would have been better if they just released new ones as that doesn’t seem too much of a big deal. Since there’s no going back, may I suggest if WG could remove the giant and unsightly “black edition” across the barrel of the tank to original owners to make them unique. It would make me quite happy having my tank without those silly words on it.




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