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AJH387 #21 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:26 PM

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View PostPerfecshionist, on 11 February 2019 - 02:17 PM, said:

Clear camo as an option is fine.

 

Clear camo as the ONLY option on some tanks is straight up unethical and the kind of consumer outrage that hits EA needs to also hit WG sometimes.

I agree. Clear as an option makes sense. As the only option seems like the tank should just have it built in, no? (aka Pudel)

View PostPYLE33, on 11 February 2019 - 02:19 PM, said:

I get why that change was made. What eludes me is why tanks like the 50tp prototype can have camo patterns applied that work with the custom skin it already has and others are stuck with just one and no other options. Tanks like the McDragon might go from being pointedly bright to pretty sweet with some patterns that overlay and work with all that red.

Ya I guess I just haven't seen a clear pattern. It is all pretty dependent on the tank. Some like the T29MM you can camo that sort of overlaps the original paint, which is pretty cool. But some you can't.



SteampunkPagan #22 Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:35 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 11 February 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

 

"And if you do actually have to purchase the clear on the Wojtek too, then why does it have the paint in the first place?"

I liked how the reg Super Pershing had no paint and you could customize it. And the Freedom cost a bit more but the paint had the camo factor built in. That all made sense. But this whole clear thing just seems wrong / stupid. Am I missing something.

  • These two go together. Player have been very vocal about the cost of the Premium tanks, so we removed the permanent built in camo factor that was charged for in the price of the tank. Now it is the players choice if they want to pay extra for the camo factor or not. They could also use silver or wait until a Camo Sale event happens to buy permanent camo at a lower cost.
  • If you didn't mind paying extra for the permanent camo as you mentioned, buying the permanent clear coat will cost you the same amount  you would of had to pay if it was built it. 
  • Result of this change: Players pay the same, or less gold now. 

Hello Max,

Though I do agree that there was & is way to much whining about Premium Tank cost since they have increased slower than the rate of inflation here in the USA & are very much in-line with cost in other F2P games on Xbox Console. I will take this opportunity to voice my strong objection to only having CLEAR camo as a choice when charging full price for camo & to the lack of a clear notice that the tanks do or do not have a camo bonus requiring added purchase of camo as well as if only CLEAR will be allowed. I have talked to STers who did NOT know that the Hidden/Bog/Wraith could have camo added now if those who have been hand picked to test do not even know this & as even WG says so few use the forums how in the heck do you expect the AVERAGE or CASUAL players to know this? Max I honestly do understand the attempt to appease the forum MOB on pricing I get it but this was I believe or am of the opinion NOT the way to go about it or to properly communicate the change.

 

I truly hope this gets passed up & that someone will consider looking at making a change here.

 

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TocFanKe4 #23 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:07 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 11 February 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

 

"And if you do actually have to purchase the clear on the Wojtek too, then why does it have the paint in the first place?"

I liked how the reg Super Pershing had no paint and you could customize it. And the Freedom cost a bit more but the paint had the camo factor built in. That all made sense. But this whole clear thing just seems wrong / stupid. Am I missing something.

  • These two go together. Player have been very vocal about the cost of the Premium tanks, so we removed the permanent built in camo factor that was charged for in the price of the tank. Now it is the players choice if they want to pay extra for the camo factor or not. They could also use silver or wait until a Camo Sale event happens to buy permanent camo at a lower cost.
  • If you didn't mind paying extra for the permanent camo as you mentioned, buying the permanent clear coat will cost you the same amount  you would of had to pay if it was built it. 
  • Result of this change: Players pay the same, or less gold now. 

 

This would be a good argument if the premium tanks were actually cheaper.  From the prices I've seen, there's no discount and you still have to pay for the clear camo.  To me, it seems like a way to jack up the price, not make it cheaper. 

 

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PYLE33 #24 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:11 PM

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View PostAJH387, on 11 February 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

I agree. Clear as an option makes sense. As the only option seems like the tank should just have it built in, no? (aka Pudel)

Ya I guess I just haven't seen a clear pattern. It is all pretty dependent on the tank. Some like the T29MM you can camo that sort of overlaps the original paint, which is pretty cool. But some you can't.

 

I'm gonna have to check the T29MM out next time I fire the console up, never looked at that for that tank and can't say I've seen one in game with camo on. The 50tp proto has that painting on the sides and the camo patterns it gets either let the paintings show through or they blend with them making them barely noticeable. Just my opine but camo/paint schemes like the 50tp proto gets should be the standard for all the tanks with "special" paint jobs. If ya like the way it looks put the clear coat on it and hammer down. If the default skin is a bit much for ones tastes then a few camo patterns that overlay but don't completely hide the original scheme would be awesome. 
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PYLE33 #25 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:14 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 11 February 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

This would be a good argument if the premium tanks were actually cheaper.  From the prices I've seen, there's no discount and you still have to pay for the clear camo.  To me, it seems like a way to jack up the price, not make it cheaper. 

 

The savings are just being hidden by economic inflation. The savings are really there we just can't see them lol.
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cydewaze #26 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:16 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 11 February 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

This would be a good argument if the premium tanks were actually cheaper.  From the prices I've seen, there's no discount and you still have to pay for the clear camo.  To me, it seems like a way to jack up the price, not make it cheaper. 

 

Yeah, I think it would be tough to prove that removing the built-in camo has made premiums any cheaper, especially since the change only affected new premiums, so there's no before/after price to compare. What would have maybe been a better way to do it was make clear camo (with the camo value) included with the price, then allow people to buy alternate camo patterns. I'd totally plunk down gold to camo the McDragon, or the Stark, even if it added no additional concealment.

DiabolicGambit #27 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:23 PM

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It's funny because they say the tanks will be cheaper.. yet they set the pricing . So we never actually know if there was any movement in the price at all.. I mean they could claim anything... 

AJH387 #28 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:24 PM

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View PostPYLE33, on 11 February 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

 

I'm gonna have to check the T29MM out next time I fire the console up, never looked at that for that tank and can't say I've seen one in game with camo on. The 50tp proto has that painting on the sides and the camo patterns it gets either let the paintings show through or they blend with them making them barely noticeable. Just my opine but camo/paint schemes like the 50tp proto gets should be the standard for all the tanks with "special" paint jobs. If ya like the way it looks put the clear coat on it and hammer down. If the default skin is a bit much for ones tastes then a few camo patterns that overlay but don't completely hide the original scheme would be awesome. 

 

Ya, check it out. It's kinda cool but a little weird. I just decided that I liked how it looked stock, for now. And I really didn't see the need for added came factor. but I may change it in the future.

 

 

But what really made me question some of this is  (hate to keeping using it as an example) but the Pudel only has a clear option. So you need to pay extra for the added concealment factor. However, it does have quite a bit of a paint job on it, far from a normal stock tank. So I thought it was odd that they felt adding a camo paint would take away from how the tank would look (I assume it is a real-life replica?). So that is fine, it looks awesome as-is. But shouldn't that count as camo factor then? Especially because it is listed as the same price, in gold as the Wojtek but it has worse camo rating. Unless I am just confused.

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MaxChaos24 #29 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:31 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 11 February 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

This would be a good argument if the premium tanks were actually cheaper.  From the prices I've seen, there's no discount and you still have to pay for the clear camo.  To me, it seems like a way to jack up the price, not make it cheaper. 

 

Happy to share some examples showing the cost decreasing over time. If you don't follow the pricing than it's certainly easy to overlook and not realize that the prices have been coming down.:great:

 

Most Recent Example: 

Painted Version no built in camo

Base Version no built in camo

 

They cost exactly the same to purchase. Both require Camo to be purchase to gain the Camo Bonus. 

 

An example from awhile ago when we started reducing prices: 

Painted Version with built in camo

Base Version no built in camo

 

The Painted version had built in camo, and the price was only marked up by 800 Gold, which is what it cost to buy 4 permanent camouflage schemes on the Base Version. 

 

An example from a long time ago when things were more expensive:

Painted version with built in camo.

Base Version no built in camo

 

That was a 3,200 Gold difference, a lot more than just the 800 Gold for the Build in camo.

 

 



AJH387 #30 Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 11 February 2019 - 03:31 PM, said:

 

Happy to share some examples showing the cost decreasing over time. If you don't follow the pricing than it's certainly easy to overlook and not realize that the prices have been coming down.:great:

 

Most Recent Example: 

Painted Version no built in camo

Base Version no built in camo

 

They cost exactly the same to purchase. Both require Camo to be purchase to gain the Camo Bonus. 

 

An example from awhile ago when we started reducing prices: 

Painted Version with built in camo

Base Version no built in camo

 

The Painted version had built in camo, and the price was only marked up by 800 Gold, which is what it cost to buy 4 permanent camouflage schemes on the Base Version. 

 

An example from a long time ago when things were more expensive:

Painted version with built in camo.

Base Version no built in camo

 

That was a 3,200 Gold difference, a lot more than just the 800 Gold for the Build in camo.

 

 

 

That all makes perfect sense to me, but my example listed above does not (Polish).

DiabolicGambit #31 Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:07 PM

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But new tanks get whatever pricing they want. How do we know the 105 dassult shouldn't be 8000g when you set your own prices it's hard to claim a discount on anything.. I mean you litterly control the entire market

PYLE33 #32 Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:08 PM

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I think the Wotjek is a console exclusive and probably a hero tank they all have higher price tags on them. To that point the IS-5 comparison is not a good one as the Glory is a console exclusive hero tank that got an inflated price cause it's supposed to be rare. I could be wrong though.

 


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Schiavoser #33 Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:58 PM

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I have the same complaint regarding the Pudel. Part of my gripe, too, is that we cannot tell the statistical effect on concealment our clear-coat camo purchase has. This is a game-wide problem, and we can't see the difference on any tank. But as it relates to the Pudel, not only do we miss out on the customization fun of camo, but we can only hope our camo is even having an effect.

Knipsel CrunchU #34 Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:01 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 11 February 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

"And if you do actually have to purchase the clear on the Wojtek too, then why does it have the paint in the first place?"

I liked how the reg Super Pershing had no paint and you could customize it. And the Freedom cost a bit more but the paint had the camo factor built in. That all made sense. But this whole clear thing just seems wrong / stupid. Am I missing something.

  • These two go together. Player have been very vocal about the cost of the Premium tanks, so we removed the permanent built in camo factor that was charged for in the price of the tank. Now it is the players choice if they want to pay extra for the camo factor or not. They could also use silver or wait until a Camo Sale event happens to buy permanent camo at a lower cost.
  • If you didn't mind paying extra for the permanent camo as you mentioned, buying the permanent clear coat will cost you the same amount  you would of had to pay if it was built it. 
  • Result of this change: Players pay the same, or less gold now. 

 

So how come the Liberty cost 15k gold?  When it first came out it was around $12k.  So now, same tank, less camo feature, 3k more.  It doesn't add up.

TocFanKe4 #35 Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:53 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 11 February 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

 

Happy to share some examples showing the cost decreasing over time. If you don't follow the pricing than it's certainly easy to overlook and not realize that the prices have been coming down.:great:

 

Most Recent Example: 

Painted Version no built in camo

Base Version no built in camo

 

They cost exactly the same to purchase. Both require Camo to be purchase to gain the Camo Bonus. 

 

An example from awhile ago when we started reducing prices: 

Painted Version with built in camo

Base Version no built in camo

 

The Painted version had built in camo, and the price was only marked up by 800 Gold, which is what it cost to buy 4 permanent camouflage schemes on the Base Version. 

 

An example from a long time ago when things were more expensive:

Painted version with built in camo.

Base Version no built in camo

 

That was a 3,200 Gold difference, a lot more than just the 800 Gold for the Build in camo.

 

 

I don't agree with your comparison.  In the past ,you paid a premium to get a tank when it first came out. The Glory chould be seen as this premium for early adoption , not just a cost for the camo paint.  Then the regular one came out a while later, which no longer had this early adoption premium.  At the very least, the camo paint discount is minimal.  


 

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AJH387 #36 Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:14 AM

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View PostSchiavoser, on 11 February 2019 - 04:58 PM, said:

I have the same complaint regarding the Pudel. Part of my gripe, too, is that we cannot tell the statistical effect on concealment our clear-coat camo purchase has. This is a game-wide problem, and we can't see the difference on any tank. But as it relates to the Pudel, not only do we miss out on the customization fun of camo, but we can only hope our camo is even having an effect.

 

yes exactly. Im not sure if everyone quite gets my complaint/question on that tank. The examples Max listed are either 2 versions of the same tank which cost the same and can still be customized, each having exact same stats. OR the same tanks but 1 is permacamoed and costs more while the other is plain and cheaper. Both are fine. But the Polish Pudel/Wojtek do not follow either format. 1 tank has perma camo and better concealment, while the other only allows clear camo that must be added for that concealment value. Yet both are listed for the same price. I havent seen anything in this thread that says how that should make sense. 

M4ntiX #37 Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:16 AM

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I like the change. When you think about it, it's very fair and flexible and should satisfy a large group of players:

 

Those who do not like paying extra for camo, now don't have to.

Purists that want to keep their tanks looking "original," can apply clear camo.

And lastly, players that want different camo patterns on their tanks have plenty of options.

 

Of course, there are tanks like the Pudel that only allow for clear camo to be applied and that's fine since this is how the tank looked originally and shouldn't be "painted."

(not counting the not-so-bugged Twitch camo that can be applied regardless)



PYLE33 #38 Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:58 AM

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View PostAJH387, on 11 February 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

 

yes exactly. Im not sure if everyone quite gets my complaint/question on that tank. The examples Max listed are either 2 versions of the same tank which cost the same and can still be customized, each having exact same stats. OR the same tanks but 1 is permacamoed and costs more while the other is plain and cheaper. Both are fine. But the Polish Pudel/Wojtek do not follow either format. 1 tank has perma camo and better concealment, while the other only allows clear camo that must be added for that concealment value. Yet both are listed for the same price. I havent seen anything in this thread that says how that should make sense. 

 

You may have just noticed a mistake someone made when figuring the prices of the tanks. By the current standard the Pudel should be cheaper or the Wotjek should be around 700 more gold for the camo.
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AJH387 #39 Posted 12 February 2019 - 04:36 AM

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View PostPYLE33, on 11 February 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

 

You may have just noticed a mistake someone made when figuring the prices of the tanks. By the current standard the Pudel should be cheaper or the Wotjek should be around 700 more gold for the camo.

 

if that is the case, then I have no issues. In post #28 i linked both tanks links from the tankopedia, and it shows both cost 3650 gold. And the Wojtek shows the better concealment rating. If that is all correct, my question/complaint stands. If there is a price difference, then I'm cool with it. I just wasnt sure.

motor sw #40 Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:01 AM

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The WG should sell skins separately to tanks instead of releasing a whole new tank that is identical to the non-skinned one besides the paint theme. This way the player can choose the way the tank looks and the game would not be flooded by re-skin tanks. But maybe that´s the WG´s intention, to peddle re-skins to a inflated prize that is.




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