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Investigative math: Food does boost Mentor

Crew training mentor BIA Vents

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GIXXERCON 13 #1 Posted 18 February 2019 - 08:15 PM

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To be clear, this thread is intended to only reveal the hidden truths of our game. Keep it civil and fact based please.

 

TL;DR- Mentor does work with BIA and Food despite being told over the years that only BIA boosts mentor.

 

Mentor has always been thought to be boosted by Vents (5%), BIA (5%) and Food (10%) for a total of 12% boost (10*1.20) from mentor.

Over the years it’s been said by WGA that Mentor is only boosted by BIA for a max of 10.5%

 

So in using the free xp to crew xp conversion menu to see the exact amount of xp a crew has, I’ve done some reverse math in hopes of sourcing how crew xp per battle is factored.

 

Starting crew xp

Spoiler

 

Finish crew xp

Spoiler

 

Post game total xp 

Spoiler

 

Post game breakdown

Spoiler
 

(Please excuse this very poor performance, the lag is unbearable to play.

Which is why I’m here doing this to occupy my time)

 

Starting crew xp- 10,721,897

Finished crew xp- 10,733,632

A difference of 11,735 crew xp

 

Tank- AMX Chaffee (thanks Joco)

60% overall tank xp modifier (10% hidden already in base xp & 50% to premium vehicle bonus)

20% crew xp modifier

Crew has BIA and Mentor

Vents equipped

Food.

 

1241 base xp

premium account= 1862

premi vehicle bonus= 931

daily x2= 1862

Bravo x2= 1862

Op bonus= 500 (2 ops worth 250 each)

Total tank xp from the battle= 7,017 tank xp

 

Now to factor in the crew side of things.

X1.2 (20% crew xp from Chaffee)

X1.115 (11.5% mentor boosted by BIA and Food)

x1.25 (elite status 25% accelerated crew training)

These all stack in multiplicative factoring.

Results being 11,736

 

Now if I were to factor my total tank xp according to WGA using Mentor with BIA a 10.5% boost to crew xp we end up with 11,631. Which falls short of the actual amount I received in the battle.

 

Facts of a single battle as the math provides the true mechanics 

 

This was my initial post. Leaving it here for math reference.

Spoiler

Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

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PAINGOD stated that the Waffle won't be removed... He didn't state that it will be staying at tier X.


GameWinner_001 #2 Posted 18 February 2019 - 08:39 PM

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View PostGIXXERCON 13, on 18 February 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

So in using the free xp to crew xp conversion menu to see the exact amount of xp a crew has, I’ve done some reverse math in hopes of sourcing how crew xp per battle is factored.

 

Crew with Mentor 100% trained. (10% crew xp bonus)

Vents on the tank which turns mentor into a 10.5% crew bonus. No BIA or food.

 

Tank: Defiance Matilda- 45% xp bonus (5% already factored into base, 40% as actual bonus)

Base 199xp

premium account 299xp

Winter bravo x2 299xp

Operation award 250xp

premium vehicle bonus 120xp

 

Total match tank xp 968xp

This match is subject to a 10.5% (x1.105) crew xp mentor bonus & a 25% (x1.25) elite vehicle (Advanced Crew Training) bonus

Crew xp before this match 546,239

Crew xp after the match 547,569

A difference of 1330 crew xp.

 

These ^^^ are all facts and are numbers provided by the post game battle. Nothing wrong up till this point.

 

This is where my reverse math cannot find the order of of multipliers to reach 1300 crew xp from 968 total match xp.

968*1.105= 1069.64*1.25= 1337 ​For mentor then ACT multiplicative.

968*1.355= 1312 when combining the 10.5% & 25% bonuses.

Applying additive math (like when factoring base xp to final xp) is just a waste as it doesn’t even come close to the 1330 crew xp.

 

So here’s the question- How is mentor and ACT factored?

968 final tank xp turns into 1330 crew xp from a 10.5% bonus and a 25% bonus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am pretty sure Vents do not turn Mentor into 10.5 % (so it remains at 10%). Vents have no influence on Mentor. Also Food has no influence on Mentor, I think.

BIA influences Mentor though. But, as you have mentioned, you do not have Brothers in Arms trained.

 

With this in mind:

968 x 1.10 x 1.25 = 1331

 

So the game did everything correctly (it is probably 1331 instead of 1330 because of some rounding).


Edited by GameWinner_001, 18 February 2019 - 08:41 PM.


HawkZ71 #3 Posted 18 February 2019 - 08:43 PM

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If you follow a link in Max's signature...it will break down how the xp is calculated.  It helped me understand how it all adds up. If you have Mentor and BiA...it is 10.5% and the bonus is calculated over the sum of all other earned xp. Keep in mind the hidden 25% crew bonus all premium and elite tanks have.

HawkZ71 #4 Posted 18 February 2019 - 08:50 PM

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That is correct. The only thing that improves Mentor is BiA. Vents and food have no effect.

GIXXERCON 13 #5 Posted 18 February 2019 - 09:07 PM

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View PostHawkZ71, on 18 February 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

If you follow a link in Max's signature...it will break down how the xp is calculated.  It helped me understand how it all adds up. If you have Mentor and BiA...it is 10.5% and the bonus is calculated over the sum of all other earned xp. Keep in mind the hidden 25% crew bonus all premium and elite tanks have.

It’s much easier to just do the math than use the calculator.

Add to it that I cannot effectively use Max’s calculator on Apple devices even with MS excel.

 

The hidden 25% crew bonus you refer to is listed in the op as ACT (accelerated crew training)


Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

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Wroclaw #6 Posted 18 February 2019 - 11:48 PM

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which is Mentor being calculated off ? the base+premium figure, or the final visible total XP amount ?

 

if its the final total, then both Mentor & ACT are giving their bonuses based on this total XP amount ?



GIXXERCON 13 #7 Posted 18 February 2019 - 11:58 PM

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View PostWroclaw, on 18 February 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

which is Mentor being calculated off ? the base+premium figure, or the final visible total XP amount ?

 

if its the final total, then both Mentor & ACT are giving their bonuses based on this total XP amount ?

Mentor, Premium tank crew xp modifiers, and accelerated training all stack multiplicative from the final tank xp number (the “final visible amount”)

1000 total battle tank xp*mentor*tank crew modifier*1.25 for accelerated training.


Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

R.I.P. WoT X360 Homepage

PAINGOD stated that the Waffle won't be removed... He didn't state that it will be staying at tier X.


RAGNAR0K N ROLL #8 Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:01 AM

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But the real question for the ages is....

Does the math for mentor EVER make sense :trollface:


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GIXXERCON 13 #9 Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:15 AM

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View PostRAGNAR0K N ROLL, on 18 February 2019 - 07:01 PM, said:

But the real question for the ages is....

Does the math for mentor EVER make sense :trollface:

It makes perfect sense at this moment when we have the ability to confirm crew xp through the conversion menu.


Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

R.I.P. WoT X360 Homepage

PAINGOD stated that the Waffle won't be removed... He didn't state that it will be staying at tier X.


huricanechuck #10 Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:16 AM

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View PostGameWinner_001, on 18 February 2019 - 08:39 PM, said:

 

 

I am pretty sure Vents do not turn Mentor into 10.5 % (so it remains at 10%). Vents have no influence on Mentor. Also Food has no influence on Mentor, I think.

BIA influences Mentor though. But, as you have mentioned, you do not have Brothers in Arms trained.

 

With this in mind:

968 x 1.10 x 1.25 = 1331

 

So the game did everything correctly (it is probably 1331 instead of 1330 because of some rounding).

Yes it does , BIA , vents and food contribute to all skills (not perks ) , mentor is a skill. Which is one reason i always want them to add a separate slot just for food or fuel , so we could use one of these without having to sacrifice a slot for repair kits/meds/fire ext.



GIXXERCON 13 #11 Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:19 AM

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View Posthuricanechuck, on 18 February 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yes it does , BIA , vents and food contribute to all skills (not perks ) , mentor is a skill. Which is one reason i always want them to add a separate slot just for food or fuel , so we could use one of these without having to sacrifice a slot for repair kits/meds/fire ext.

Unfortunately, WGA has been correct in stating that Vents do not boost Mentor’s effectiveness.

The very bottom spoiler contains my initial findings on a tank with only mentor and Vents.

If Vents boosted mentor, it would’ve been reflected in those results.

:(


Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

R.I.P. WoT X360 Homepage

PAINGOD stated that the Waffle won't be removed... He didn't state that it will be staying at tier X.


GameWinner_001 #12 Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:29 AM

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View PostGIXXERCON 13, on 19 February 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

Unfortunately, WGA has been correct in stating that Vents do not boost Mentor’s effectiveness.

The very bottom spoiler contains my initial findings on a tank with only mentor and Vents.

If Vents boosted mentor, it would’ve been reflected in those results.

:(

 

 

Quite some effort that you have put into this.

 

It is still not yet proven whether food directly boosts mentor.

 

What is known is that food boosts BIA (source, see under BIA: http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/114365-crew-skills-and-perks/).This definitely leads to an indirect boost of mentor if food, BIA and mentor are combined as in your example.

 

So, it would be interesting to see what happens if only food and mentor are combined (without BIA)? Will mentor also be boosted then?

(I cannot test it as I am not on my console now).



GIXXERCON 13 #13 Posted 19 February 2019 - 12:45 AM

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View PostGameWinner_001, on 18 February 2019 - 07:29 PM, said:

Quite some effort that you have put into this.

 

It is still not yet proven whether food directly boosts mentor.

 

What is known is that food boosts BIA (source, see under BIA: http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/114365-crew-skills-and-perks/).This definitely leads to an indirect boost of mentor if food, BIA and mentor are combined as in your example.

 

So, it would be interesting to see what happens if only food and mentor are combined (without BIA)? Will mentor also be boosted then?

(I cannot test it as I am not on my console now).

My results have directly shown that it is proven.

 

BIA is a 5% boost to Mentor’s 10% (10*0.05= 0.5) So a .5% boost totaling 10.5% Mentor bonus.

Food is 10%... being a 1% boost totaling 11% Mentor bonus.

Having both BIA and Food make it an 11.5% total mentor boost.

 

After 1 battle I earned 11,735 crew xp <<this is absolute

BIA and Mentor at 10.5% the math would show 11,631 crew xp 

BIA, Food, & Mentor at 11.5% the math shows 11,736 crew xp.

So which one of those calculations equal my actual result?

 

Edit: here’s the math

BIA/Mentor 10.5%(1.105)

7017*1.105*1.2*1.25=11,631

 

BIA/Food/Mentor 11.5% (1.115)

7017*1.115*1.2*1.25=11,736

 

The link you posted does have useful info. Though you should be aware that crew proficiency for calculating view range, weapon handling stats, terrain resistance, etc. is entirely separate from the other benefits and equation from skills and perks.

 

 


Edited by GIXXERCON 13, 19 February 2019 - 01:13 AM.

Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

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PAINGOD stated that the Waffle won't be removed... He didn't state that it will be staying at tier X.


Wroclaw #14 Posted 19 February 2019 - 04:09 AM

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View PostRAGNAR0K N ROLL, on 19 February 2019 - 12:01 AM, said:

But the real question for the ages is....

Does the math for mentor EVER make sense :trollface:

 

Mentor is the last multiplier to be calculated. but just recently it was shown quite clearly that most everything is being calculated off the Base+Premium bonus amount.

 

this gave me doubts as to how worthwhile Mentor was, because if it was only a Base XP multiplier as well, then its giving you very little in the way of bonus . . . . . . . but it isnt.

 

as assumed - Mentor is working off the final amount. the visible number you see in the end-battle results screen. over time & with a high number of battles you get a big advantage in skill progression compared to non-mentor users.

 

but the main thing thats clear is: everything else pales compared to Premium Time. its the single biggest boost you can get. it gives 50% to everything else & your Premium Tanks really do become premium with it.


Edited by Wroclaw, 19 February 2019 - 07:32 AM.


Pontiac Pat #15 Posted 19 February 2019 - 04:33 AM

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If your math is correct, Gixxer, then it should be easily provable by comparing the results with Max's calculator.  Unfortunately, I just tried to pull it up and it appears to be down.

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dzhey43 #16 Posted 19 February 2019 - 04:55 AM

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Here is web version of max calc http://www.worldoftanksgameguide.com/XPCalculator.aspx
Spoiler

GIXXERCON 13 #17 Posted 19 February 2019 - 05:17 AM

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View PostPontiac Pat, on 18 February 2019 - 11:33 PM, said:

If your math is correct, Gixxer, then it should be easily provable by comparing the results with Max's calculator.  Unfortunately, I just tried to pull it up and it appears to be down.

The math is absolute with being able to see the before and after crew xp. Max’s calculator is still active on my OneDrive and it looks like someone else has already done the math as I didn’t not input any of the numbers... the calculator is incorrect as it shows a total crew xp of 11,630 while my 1st and second screenshots clearly show a total crew xp of 11,735. My math stands correct.

Spoiler

View Postdzhey43, on 18 February 2019 - 11:55 PM, said:

That calculator is wrong on every column.

Check my screenshots of before and after... for your own confirmation.

 

It shows 7203 as my total xp when my postgame shows 7017

1117 vs 931 for premium vehicle bonus

11,940 vs 11,735 for total crew xp.

Don’t even need a calculator to see that site doesn’t factor much correctly on premium tanks.


Std. Tanks- Hellcat, T29, GwPanther, T-54 Ltwt, Pershing, AMX 50 100, IS-3, T49, Ru251, AMX13 90, M46 Patton, T-54, Obj. 430 II, E-75, M53/55, T-100 LT, M48 Patton, Cent. AX, E-50M, Leo 1, T-62a, Obj. 140, Obj. 430, Obj. 430U, T57 Heavy, T110E5, FV215b, Chieftain, S.Conq, E-100, AMX 50B, IS-7, IS-4, T110E4, T110E3, JPE-100, T92, GwE-100, B-C 155 58, Obj 261

 >>> 100% Crew= BETTER stats than listed in your garage!!! <<<

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PAINGOD stated that the Waffle won't be removed... He didn't state that it will be staying at tier X.


TocFanKe4 #18 Posted 19 February 2019 - 05:39 AM

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Mentor is worthless. You're always a skill down.

 

My dislike of +/- 1 pales in comparison to my hatred of Loaded Dice.


TocFanKe4 #19 Posted 19 February 2019 - 05:41 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 18 February 2019 - 11:39 PM, said:

Mentor is worthless. You're always a skill down.

 

WRONG .....You couldn't be more wrong. You're missing out on tons of XP over the long haul. You definitely come out far ahead. 


 

My dislike of +/- 1 pales in comparison to my hatred of Loaded Dice.


TocFanKe4 #20 Posted 19 February 2019 - 05:43 AM

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There. That should prime this to be the normal mentor thread horror show. :trollface:

 

My dislike of +/- 1 pales in comparison to my hatred of Loaded Dice.






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