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Do we all get an equal chance of fair MM?

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TennisMan56 #21 Posted 01 March 2019 - 05:46 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

I know official response would be yes, it's fair and no hidden scripts or any other ''rigging'' method used. But, it does look pretty amazing that in some cases (tanks) you get such a horrible and frustrating series of bad teams.

Last night I was grinding some of my active turretless TD grinds, and I must admit this is the class I don't really like much, actualy least preffered class would be arty followed by turretless TD's. But, I'm using all avaiable xp Ops to speed up grinds on both of these SPG classes, not so loved ones.

So, I've played my french ARL V39 (horrible vehicle) and after having a 3 win streak thanks to String Theory, I've managed to finish it and sold it right away. Then I bought tier VII, AMX AC mle 46, and assigned same crew from the previous one (solid crew with 9 perks), so I said let's try get the second package upgrade (first one was already unlocked). I needed some 14k xp to do that, which shouldn't be that hard considering all xp boosting Ops atm. I was thinking 2 maybe 3 matches would suffice, but instead I've played 12 (!) and had only 2 wins during that period.

Ended the session with 16.67% WR on AC 46, and 35% WR for that day (played only TD's). :sceptic:

 

So, 2 out of 12 for a brand new vehicle.I thought we were supposed to get that ''honeymoon MM'' for the first couple of matches with new vehicle. I guess that's not a thing anymore.

 

*Puts tinfoil hat on*

Now, when you buy a new tank from the TT, this is what really happens. Instead of ''honeymoon MM'' you get ''potato sack MM'' where you and your stock package tank are placed into team with 7 or 8 other stock tanks and players with WR under 48%. This is activated by hidden scripts running in MM which detect your stock tank and put it in team with 8 other stock TT tanks. The goal is to frustrate player up to a point where you reach for your CC and buy some free xp to get out of that misery. Another hidden script detects your XP boosts on and whether or not you have Long Haul Op turned on or off. If you're running Long Haul Op, you're automatically recognized as someone who's after their gold and your MM gets additionally weighted, so not only you end up in potato sack team, YOU GET TO BE THE BOTTOM OF POTATO SACK TEAM...how effin' nice is that???

 

I had to say it, it's beyond logics that so many series of bad games can happen in such a short period of time. Couple of days earlier I've had a 5 out of 21 WR on AMX 50 100 and concluded that day with 25% WR (!?). I think this was my all time record low. Team after team was steamroll after steamroll, while being bottom (or mid at best) tier in every game.

 

 

 

"Mama always said" Life was like a box of chocolates,  never know what you're gonna get".:hiding:

TennisMan56 #22 Posted 01 March 2019 - 05:46 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

I know official response would be yes, it's fair and no hidden scripts or any other ''rigging'' method used. But, it does look pretty amazing that in some cases (tanks) you get such a horrible and frustrating series of bad teams.

Last night I was grinding some of my active turretless TD grinds, and I must admit this is the class I don't really like much, actualy least preffered class would be arty followed by turretless TD's. But, I'm using all avaiable xp Ops to speed up grinds on both of these SPG classes, not so loved ones.

So, I've played my french ARL V39 (horrible vehicle) and after having a 3 win streak thanks to String Theory, I've managed to finish it and sold it right away. Then I bought tier VII, AMX AC mle 46, and assigned same crew from the previous one (solid crew with 9 perks), so I said let's try get the second package upgrade (first one was already unlocked). I needed some 14k xp to do that, which shouldn't be that hard considering all xp boosting Ops atm. I was thinking 2 maybe 3 matches would suffice, but instead I've played 12 (!) and had only 2 wins during that period.

Ended the session with 16.67% WR on AC 46, and 35% WR for that day (played only TD's). :sceptic:

 

So, 2 out of 12 for a brand new vehicle.I thought we were supposed to get that ''honeymoon MM'' for the first couple of matches with new vehicle. I guess that's not a thing anymore.

 

*Puts tinfoil hat on*

Now, when you buy a new tank from the TT, this is what really happens. Instead of ''honeymoon MM'' you get ''potato sack MM'' where you and your stock package tank are placed into team with 7 or 8 other stock tanks and players with WR under 48%. This is activated by hidden scripts running in MM which detect your stock tank and put it in team with 8 other stock TT tanks. The goal is to frustrate player up to a point where you reach for your CC and buy some free xp to get out of that misery. Another hidden script detects your XP boosts on and whether or not you have Long Haul Op turned on or off. If you're running Long Haul Op, you're automatically recognized as someone who's after their gold and your MM gets additionally weighted, so not only you end up in potato sack team, YOU GET TO BE THE BOTTOM OF POTATO SACK TEAM...how effin' nice is that???

 

I had to say it, it's beyond logics that so many series of bad games can happen in such a short period of time. Couple of days earlier I've had a 5 out of 21 WR on AMX 50 100 and concluded that day with 25% WR (!?). I think this was my all time record low. Team after team was steamroll after steamroll, while being bottom (or mid at best) tier in every game.

 

 

 

"Mama always said" Life was like a box of chocolates,  never know what you're gonna get".:hiding: 

Sorry about the double post. Can not figure out how to delete the second one.


Edited by TennisMan56, 01 March 2019 - 05:49 PM.


Jope2209 #23 Posted 01 March 2019 - 06:08 PM

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View PostSaltyMcD, on 01 March 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

 

 I have a hax that removes Jope2209.exe from the files .  Gift me a Party Platter and I’ll mail you the floppy disk .

 

Deal.

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Jope2209 #24 Posted 01 March 2019 - 06:45 PM

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View PostHypocrite, on 01 March 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

Here’s the problem with any theory that the Matchmaker is rigged to ensure that you (or any other player) goes on an extended losing or winning streak:
 
If you believe this then you must also be willing to state that
 
What seems more likely to you: you’ve had some bad luck, or Wargaming’s Developers have created a God Engine?

 

Bah Gawd man, that's a wall of letters.

While I can understand the sarcasm, you should be able to understand the need to relieve your frustration after a bad streak of games (no matter what has caused them).

 

No one claimed anything about God Engine, but it's a common knowledge that scripts in MM exist, and they were confirmed by WG staff. ''Honeymoon MM'' is a known fact (although it's not a thing anymore), but if you didn't know about it, it's a special matchmaking for newly purchased tank which was supposed to provide the owner of the tank with certain number of top tier games. So you see that it doesn't take God Engine to manipulate the MM. Hence with same principles applied, why would hidden script which selects certain tanks (or players) and places them into the same team be so unreal?

 

Here is +1 for the effort.


 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Hypocrite #25 Posted 01 March 2019 - 07:58 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

Bah Gawd man, that's a wall of letters.

.... 

No one claimed anything about God Engine, but it's a common knowledge that scripts in MM exist, and they were confirmed by WG staff. ''Honeymoon MM'' is a known fact (although it's not a thing anymore), but if you didn't know about it, it's a special matchmaking for newly purchased tank which was supposed to provide the owner of the tank with certain number of top tier games. So you see that it doesn't take God Engine to manipulate the MM. Hence with same princilples applied, why would hidden script which selects certain tanks (or players) and places them into the same team be so unreal?

 

Here is +1 for the effort.

 

Point of Order: I don't know if you noticed, but my post isn't much longer than your original. 

 

I get that there's Honeymoon MM, but having a script to put a new premium vehicle Top Tier in its first five matches is quite different from having a series of interlocking skill-based scripts intended to keep specific players in their predetermined place despite most all of those players insisting the Matchmaker can't provide battles that are competitive.

 

And for the record - no, I don't understand the need to vent after a bad series of games. Seriously, I don't - the game is how I relax after dealing with the situations that present themselves at and outside my workday. World of Tanks is the antithesis of stress for me - maybe that makes me an outlier, but I don't understand people who get so worked up that the game wrecks their emotional equilibrium.

 

+1 for the effort, though.

:P


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Jope2209 #26 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:04 PM

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View PostHypocrite, on 01 March 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

Point of Order: I don't know if you noticed, but my post isn't much longer than your original.

 

Yeah, that was quite hypocritical of me. ;)

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Oldschoolxx #27 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:05 PM

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Prob has a lot to do with Server & Queue #'s.  Tier 6 & 7 are virtually unplayable with low #'s in the evenings on NA server, you'll get drawn into tier 8 & 9 games almost constantly.  In a 13 game stretch a few days ago I was top tier once.  I can't seem to win much if I can't carry.  Some late evenings when there are around 100 in the queue & 30 players waiting in tier 10's I either play 10 or stay @ 7 or below.

 

 



Hypocrite #28 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:20 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

Yeah, that was quite hypocritical of me. ;)

 

Hey - leave me outta.... wait, no, this one is on me.

:great:


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M4ntiX #29 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:35 PM

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View PostHypocrite, on 01 March 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

Point of Order: I don't know if you noticed, but my post isn't much longer than your original. 

 

View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 08:04 PM, said:

 

Yeah, that was quite hypocritical of me. ;)

 

+1 To you both. Because why the hell not. Such a beautiful quarrel.



TocFanKe4 #30 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:45 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

 

Bah Gawd man, that's a wall of letters.

While I can understand the sarcasm, you should be able to understand the need to relieve your frustration after a bad streak of games (no matter what has caused them).

 

No one claimed anything about God Engine, but it's a common knowledge that scripts in MM exist, and they were confirmed by WG staff. ''Honeymoon MM'' is a known fact (although it's not a thing anymore), but if you didn't know about it, it's a special matchmaking for newly purchased tank which was supposed to provide the owner of the tank with certain number of top tier games. So you see that it doesn't take God Engine to manipulate the MM. Hence with same principles applied, why would hidden script which selects certain tanks (or players) and places them into the same team be so unreal?

 

Here is +1 for the effort.

 

"Honeymoon MM" still exists and is still in the game.  I got confirmation from Max this morning in a PM.

 

But there's a huge misconception that you're going to be top tier every time with it.  You're not.  And I don't think it works of you're playing with multiple tanks in a platoon.  

 

Honeymoon MM is just the MM trying to give you easier MM for the first few games.  It could be mid tier in a game with only a couple top tiers ,so you're in the top half or top third.  It's not a guarantee of getting top.  And like any MM rule if there's a weird group of tanks in the queue causing MM to take too long, the rules get relaxed to increase the speed of MM.


 

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Jope2209 #31 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:48 PM

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View PostM4ntiX, on 01 March 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

 

+1 To you both. Because why the hell not. Such a beautiful quarrel.

 

Have a +1 yourself kind Sir.

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


TocFanKe4 #32 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:49 PM

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And just to clarify, the only "scripts" in MM that have been confirmed by WG are the "Honeymoon MM" and the game trying to give you easier MM the next game if you are on the bottom two games in a row. That's it. Anything more is tinfoil conjecture.

 

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Jope2209 #33 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:51 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 01 March 2019 - 08:45 PM, said:

 

"Honeymoon MM" still exists and is still in the game.  I got confirmation from Max this morning in a PM.

 

But there's a huge misconception that you're going to be top tier every time with it.  You're not.  And I don't think it works of you're playing with multiple tanks in a platoon.  

 

Honeymoon MM is just the MM trying to give you easier MM for the first few games.  It could be mid tier in a game with only a couple top tiers ,so you're in the top half or top third.  It's not a guarantee of getting top.  And like any MM rule if there's a weird group of tanks in the queue causing MM to take too long, the rules get relaxed to increase the speed of MM.

 

Well yes, thank you for checking it and sharing the info, but the point being that MM IS ''instructed'' to help you. I'd say we can call that ''rigged'' MM.

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


TocFanKe4 #34 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

 

Well yes, thank you for checking it and sharing the info, but the point being that MM IS ''instructed'' to help you. I'd say we can call that ''rigged'' MM.

 

If you like. But the only rigging WG has confirmed is always in your favor. Rigging has a negative connotation to many people here. If people call that rigging ,then I can only wish my games will be heavily rigged. Give me more ,please :D


 

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Jope2209 #35 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:57 PM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 01 March 2019 - 08:53 PM, said:

 

If you like. But the only rigging WG has confirmed is always in your favor. Rigging has a negative connotation to many people here. If people call that rigging ,then I can only wish my games will be heavily rigged. Give me more ,please :D

 

Of course, you don't expect them to confirm existance of some other hidden scripts.in MM, do you? If that comes out, that would be Watergate on a whole new level.

 

The 13. (Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the performance of the 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, when their Tigers engaged the T-34: "First round hits were usually achieved at ranges between 800 to 1,000 meters. At these ranges, the Panzer Granate (they are referring to the PzGr. 39 APCBC ammunition) absolutely penetrated through the frontal armor, and usually still destroyed the engine at the rear of the T-34 tank. In 80 percent of the cases, shots from the same range hitting the side of the hull toward the rear of the tank resulted in the fuel tanks exploding. Even at ranges of 1,500 meters and longer, during favorable weather, it is possible to succeed in penetrating the T-34 with minimal expenditure of ammunition" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).

3 MoE tanks: T-34, Pz IVH, Tiger I, Pz.Kpfw. T 25, M7, T-50

 

New updated poll - please take a minute and cast your votes for the least preferred map in rotation (2019)


Hypocrite #36 Posted 01 March 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostJope2209, on 01 March 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

Yeah, that was quite hypocritical of me. ;)

 

View PostM4ntiX, on 01 March 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

 

+1 To you both. Because why the hell not. Such a beautiful quarrel.

I'll show the Both of you! +1's For Everyone!

 

View PostTocFanKe4, on 01 March 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

If you like. But the only rigging WG has confirmed is always in your favor. Rigging has a negative connotation to many people here. If people call that rigging ,then I can only wish my games will be heavily rigged. Give me more ,please :D

Even You! 


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rrmike #37 Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:49 AM

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View PostTocFanKe4, on 01 March 2019 - 08:45 PM, said:

 

"Honeymoon MM" still exists and is still in the game.  I got confirmation from Max this morning in a PM.

 

But there's a huge misconception that you're going to be top tier every time with it.  You're not.  And I don't think it works of you're playing with multiple tanks in a platoon.  

 

Honeymoon MM is just the MM trying to give you easier MM for the first few games.  It could be mid tier in a game with only a couple top tiers ,so you're in the top half or top third.  It's not a guarantee of getting top.  And like any MM rule if there's a weird group of tanks in the queue causing MM to take too long, the rules get relaxed to increase the speed of MM.

 

While Max believes “honeymoon” mm is still in existence, I think he is wrong.  I have been grinding a lot of new lines on my alt and I usually don’t get top tier in the first match despite healthy numbers in queue and <30 sec. wait time.  At least that was the case a month or so ago.  I think it was like 5 first matches in a row with a new tank it just plopped me immediately into bottom tier games.  Maybe it has been fixed but it was NOT working like it used to.



Hypocrite #38 Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:54 AM

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View Postrrmike, on 01 March 2019 - 06:49 PM, said:

 

While Max believes “honeymoon” mm is still in existence, I think he is wrong.  I have been grinding a lot of new lines on my alt and I usually don’t get top tier in the first match despite healthy numbers in queue and <30 sec. wait time.  At least that was the case a month or so ago.  I think it was like 5 first matches in a row with a new tank it just plopped me immediately into bottom tier games.  Maybe it has been fixed but it was NOT working like it used to.

 

You, too!

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Pit Friend #39 Posted 02 March 2019 - 01:15 AM

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View Postrrmike, on 01 March 2019 - 07:49 PM, said:

 

While Max believes “honeymoon” mm is still in existence, I think he is wrong.  I have been grinding a lot of new lines on my alt and I usually don’t get top tier in the first match despite healthy numbers in queue and <30 sec. wait time.  At least that was the case a month or so ago.  I think it was like 5 first matches in a row with a new tank it just plopped me immediately into bottom tier games.  Maybe it has been fixed but it was NOT working like it used to.

 

I can count on one hand the number of games I’ve had being top tier in new tanks. I’ve never believed there was any sort of honeymoon period. 

I hope to one day be wealthy enough to be considered eccentric rather than just plain nuts.  


moeggsy #40 Posted 02 March 2019 - 01:55 AM

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I have definitely noticed on a few recent purchases honeymoon phase was nonexistent.  When things go south I'm usually switching to another game to relieve frustrations. In the past I've usually been top tier a few games which makes your purchases feel worthwhile and haven't had that the past 3 to 4 tanks I've started grinding this past month. Not once, mostly bottom tiered. Sad face

 







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