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@Wargaming: Please include Concealment values in new Tank Descriptions

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SirDerp-a-lot #1 Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:17 PM

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The concealment values are not included in descriptions of new tanks (like this). Could you please list these values for future tanks?

 

Thanks!



Xenith_Inc #2 Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:29 PM

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Agreed. Camo values are super important for lights.

 

That aside, this one is tempting. Already have the AMX Chaffee and 13 57 though. 


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Tempest fox3 #3 Posted 19 March 2019 - 04:03 PM

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View PostXenith_Inc, on 19 March 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

Agreed. Camo values are super important for lights.

 

That aside, this one is tempting. Already have the AMX Chaffee and 13 57 though. 

 

Don't bother.


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SirDerp-a-lot #4 Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:11 AM

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Still not fixed, as can be seen with the Excalibur. WG, please add the camo value!

MaxChaos24 #5 Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:30 AM

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View PostSirDerp-a-lot, on 17 September 2019 - 07:11 AM, said:

Still not fixed, as can be seen with the Excalibur. WG, please add the camo value!

 

Hello, there isn't anything to fix. You can view all the stats of the tank already both in-game and the website, including its camo values. 

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/encyclopedia/vehicles/uk/GB96_Excalibur/



Master Raigoth #6 Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:10 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 September 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

 

Hello, there isn't anything to fix. You can view all the stats of the tank already both in-game and the website, including its camo values. 

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/encyclopedia/vehicles/uk/GB96_Excalibur/

 

So what does the .31 mean exactly for concealment?

I think what people want are more exact values in meters. Not just some random decimal point.



MaxChaos24 #7 Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:14 PM

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View PostMaster Raigoth, on 17 September 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

 

So what does the .31 mean exactly for concealment?

I think what people want are more exact values in meters. Not just some random decimal point.

 

.31 is the camo factor used to calculate the tanks camo in the camo formula. The higher the number, the better. A meter value is not possible as the distance you are spotted is the culmination of a lot of other factors, not just the camo.

Shockwave IIC #8 Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View PostMaster Raigoth, on 17 September 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

 

So what does the .31 mean exactly for concealment?

I think what people want are more exact values in meters. Not just some random decimal point.

 

If I understand the Camo system correctly, it means that the "view range" of tanks trying to spot you are reduced by 31%

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MaxChaos24 #9 Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:47 PM

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View PostShockwave IIC, on 17 September 2019 - 08:27 AM, said:

 

If I understand the Camo system correctly, it means that the "view range" of tanks trying to spot you are reduced by 31%

 

Unfortunately it's not that simple. A camo factor of 0.31 will reduce the base enemy view range by ~17.67% with a 100% Crew and the Camouflage Skill trained to 100%. 

Tempest fox3 #10 Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:58 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 September 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

Unfortunately it's not that simple. A camo factor of 0.31 will reduce the base enemy view range by ~17.67% with a 100% Crew and the Camouflage Skill trained to 100%. 

 

Then simplify it? Show the actual % It reduces enemy effective view range by rather than a largely meaningless decimal point.

 

We shouldn't need a degree in mathematics to understand what a random stat does in game. 

 

Also, make individual stats dynamic. (rate of fire, accuracy ect). Those arbitrary 1-100 scales are useless and having them dynamic doesn't help. I have over a dozen tanks that now read 100 in both concealment and view range thanks to the 'dynamic stats' update. But it doesn't mean anything. 


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D1RT3AGG #11 Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:59 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 September 2019 - 06:47 AM, said:

 

Unfortunately it's not that simple. A camo factor of 0.31 will reduce the base enemy view range by ~17.67% with a 100% Crew and the Camouflage Skill trained to 100%. 

 

Ahhh .31 I see...Actually I don't.

.31 doesn't tell the average tanker anything

Maybe you guys could make it show up as an actual percentage for us plebs?



MaxChaos24 #12 Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:01 PM

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View PostTempest fox3, on 17 September 2019 - 08:58 AM, said:

 

Then simplify it? Show the actual % It reduces enemy effective view range by rather than a largely meaningless decimal point.

 

We shouldn't need a degree in mathematics to understand what a random stat does in game. 

 

Also, make individual stats dynamic. (rate of fire, accuracy ect). Those arbitrary 1-100 scales are useless and having them dynamic doesn't help. I have over a dozen tanks that now read 100 in both concealment and view range thanks to the 'dynamic stats' update. But it doesn't mean anything. 

 

Hello, you don't need a degree, the game does all the calculations and spotting for you automatically, all you have to do is play. The values are there for those who do wish to do the math themselves. Displaying the actual factors was added due to player request. :honoring:

Shockwave IIC #13 Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:05 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 September 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

Unfortunately it's not that simple. A camo factor of 0.31 will reduce the base enemy view range by ~17.67% with a 100% Crew and the Camouflage Skill trained to 100%. 

 

Yeah, didn't think it was going to be.

 

Question, though, why you not publish the "after firing" Camo Values


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http://forum-console...our-average-joe

 


MaxChaos24 #14 Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:06 PM

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View PostRooster 20130, on 17 September 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

 

Ahhh .31 I see...Actually I don't.

.31 doesn't tell the average tanker anything

Maybe you guys could make it show up as an actual percentage for us plebs?

 

For average player, all you need to know if that bigger equals better, or to just look at the Concealment Rating and ignore the factors.

 

There is no single % that can be shown either due to the complexity of the spotting/concealment system. These factors are only there due to player request for those who understand the mathematical mechanics that run the system. It was requested by them for us to disclose these factors for transparency.:honoring:



Pontiac Pat #15 Posted 17 September 2019 - 04:19 PM

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The camo factor really is the best thing they can give us.  The reason they can't say the % it reduces it is because the formula includes a fixed 50m of the view range that cannot be reduced or eliminated.  This skews the percentage depending on the view range being calculated against.  Also, our display shows the value with 100% camo skill.  If you don't have the camo skill your real camo value is roughly .55 times the value shown in game.

 

IIRC, the formula is (View Range - 50) * (1 - Camo Value) + 50.  


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RogueCDUB #16 Posted 17 September 2019 - 04:44 PM

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It's pretty simple, as Max says, it's all available in the Tankopedia

Really good

  • Hidden Stug = .45
  • E25 = .44

Good

  • Spahpanzer I C = .32

Average

  • VK30.01 = .26

Bad

  • Tiger 131 = .13

Really Really Really Bad

  • Maus = .03


Master Raigoth #17 Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:46 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 17 September 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

 

For average player, all you need to know if that bigger equals better, or to just look at the Concealment Rating and ignore the factors.

 

There is no single % that can be shown either due to the complexity of the spotting/concealment system. These factors are only there due to player request for those who understand the mathematical mechanics that run the system. It was requested by them for us to disclose these factors for transparency.:honoring:

I feel like it would make things simpler if people knew the actual numbers instead of .31 or .03 I know I would anyway. I mean, even PC does a better job at explaining it. Instead of giving a random decimal number, they show the percentage instead. I would prefer to know the exact values of my tanks rather than what we have currently. Maybe im just the minority. PC even shows the exact effects the modules and skills that are trained have on the vehicle.

Not everyone that plays is just a little kid. Some are more interested in the actual math than you are giving us.



Sadriel Fett #18 Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:24 PM

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The slide bar stat numbers aren't useful at all.  I chalk it up to the growing disconnect between the Devs and the player base.  It's like many other features we've requested, that when they're finally implemented it looks nothing like what was asked for and ends up not really being used by players, so the time and effort was wasted.  What was asked for, was a system that shows the stats in a similar fashion as the Tanks.GG or WoT Info sites do, where we can put something on and it'll show the actual numerical stats, like when you pull up the Stats Tab in-game.  Put that actual numerical info on the right of the screen, not the percentage slide bars.

 

Even with the new dynamic system, with my Tiger equipped just like in this link, it only shows the Firepower as 49 on the right.  What I REALLY want to know is what my reload time is with all this equipment.  The Tanks.GG website shows the actual reload time now with all this equipment and skills (5.3 seconds).  The new "dynamic" system still shows my reload time as 6.7 seconds when you go to the Modules Tab.  It doesn't even update the info that we REALLY wanted to be updated with a "dynamic" system.  It does the same thing with aim time, dispersion, fire chance, view range, radio range, etc.  The values that we wanted to see updated with a "dynamic" system are NOT updated at all.  Only the slide bar percentage, which tells us absolutely nothing of real use.


Edited by Sadriel Fett, 18 September 2019 - 09:58 AM.

 

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Master Raigoth #19 Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:30 PM

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View PostSadriel Fett, on 17 September 2019 - 11:24 PM, said:

The slide bar stat numbers aren't useful at all.  I chalk it up to the growing disconnect between the Devs and the player base.  It's like many other features we've requested, that when they're finally implemented it looks nothing like what was asked for and ends up not really being used by players, so the time and effort was wasted.  What was asked for, was a system that shows the stats in a similar fashion as the Tanks.GG or WoT Info sites do, where we can put something on and it'll show the actual numerical stats, like when you pull up the Stats Tab in-game.  Put that actual numerical info on the right of the screen, not the percentage slide bars.

 

Couldnt have said it better myself. 

We need stats like what PC has. Console gamers already have the stigma of needing things to be dumbed down. I dont see why we are conforming to the idea. 

Cpt MaDnezZ #20 Posted 03 October 2019 - 08:32 PM

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For Battlehero/Developers: Does the Camo-Net work like it is discribed Ingame? Minus 25% on visibility? Or does it work like in the PC Version with static Numbers added to the Base Value (+15 TD | +10 MT/LT | +5 SPG/HT).

 

On an example on the new Hellcat 105 HMC this would mean in two cases:

25% Camo-Net: Ingame-Wert 0,37 x 1,25 = 0,4625

+15 TD Bonus Camo-Net: 0,37 + 0,15 = 0,52

 

So for the 2 cases we will spottet from a Vehicle with 370m Viewrange from those distances:
1. (370m - 50m) * (1 - 0,4625) + 50m = 222 m
2. (370m -50m) * (1 - 0,52) + 50m = 203,6 m

 

What is correct? If the second is correct your Ingame-Discription of the Camo-Net is wrong.

 

I have some of my community who tested it with a few Tanks and came to the Result, that your Ingame-Discription of Camo-Net is wrong - or do have another Formula for that? Did we missunderstand the discription? 


Edited by Cpt MaDnezZ, 03 October 2019 - 08:34 PM.

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