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Inside Look: Auto-Reloaders and Balance


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matematicalone #121 Posted 28 March 2019 - 10:09 PM

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View PostWarthog II, on 28 March 2019 - 08:51 PM, said:

https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/news/italian-balance

 

 

All time damage output?  Or over the same time frame?

Are stock tanks,  75% crew TT tanks, no equipment tanks etc being used to compare to the Ariete?

 

Is games played in a platoon and other related data kept?

 

 

Spot on questions. Time frame is the most important parameter here. platoons included can skew data heavily.

 



 


hmsmystic #122 Posted 28 March 2019 - 11:57 PM

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View PostElite Corsair, on 27 March 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

I really don't understand why people get this upset about tanks that are nerfed before release into the game.  At least this way we know the tanks (especially the premium tanks) won't ruin the rest of the game.  I know we can be a passionate lot but I rather a weak tank be introduced to the game and need a buff rather than have to deal with broken or op tanks like sexton Is, pz V/IVs, capt. kv-1s, kv-220s, turtles, T-32As, and iron rains.

 

 I totally agree that adding OP tanks is bad, but I also argue that adding UP tanks is bad.  They are unlikely to buff them for some time if ever.  All we want is balanced tanks (like the Banshee Comet) for example.

The other reason is that nerfing reload times on mediums, for me, makes them literally not fun to play in the current meta, with so many campy high DPM tanks.   I want to have fun.   60 seconds reload on the tier 10?  Loooong reloads on the Progetto?  I am sure unis can make these work, but it's hard for me to get aggressive and learn the new autoreload tanks with really long reload tanks



Warthog II #123 Posted 29 March 2019 - 03:58 AM

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View PostTeffisk, on 26 March 2019 - 11:31 PM, said:

Ok, I have to make one more point about the graphs MaxChaos posted at the beginning of this post. There is a huge flaw in your reasoning to nerfing all new vehicles in this game. PEOPLE GET BETTER OVER TIME. I out perform most of my other tier 8 mediums in the Ariete.

 

Edit: my Ariete stats are still slightly below my monthly overall wn8 and win rate stats, so I still don't think that nerf was justified either. 

 

The graph just might be including stock Panther II's and every other tier 8 med package vs Ariete

 

 

 

Some of the playerbase gets better compared to the rest.  Some get relatively worse. afaict  that the overall winrate won't always track  with current skill level close enough.

Seal-clubbing 55% winrate players often enough play different kinds of tanks more often than players that usually play tier 8-10 and get a 55% winrate that way

  • if more players on the way up get the Ariete
  • And less players on the way down get the Ariete
    • then the stats "skill level" overall winrate metric will be off 

 

There's even a chance that even 45% winrate players know not to yolo and throw away their HP fast in the Ariete.

 

The PC to Console damage comparison seems to not taken into account a Red Team's HP on console vs PC, nor less Arty alpha on PC, nor less powerful tier 10 TDs

 

Bad DPM bad burst.  The accuracy is about their only redeeming feature.


  

Some people claim Ensk should be tier restricted.   I don't believe their lies. 

Imagine if this forum had only players who actually win more than lose trying to tell others how to play. Would be the best forum ever. Instead, we have a bunch of bad advice from players who lose more often than not trying to tell their betters how to play their tanks.

 


Mighty-Dirty #124 Posted 29 March 2019 - 04:47 AM

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Can you add the auto reloading feature to the IS3 Auto?? 

DeltaIX T Rex #125 Posted 30 March 2019 - 06:56 AM

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So, heres a thought...

DeltaIX T Rex #126 Posted 30 March 2019 - 07:05 AM

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After looking at so many numbers myself, I come with a suggestion: Different reload times (what a surprise) but hear me out. Fully upgraded of course, I need to sleep: P.44 Pantera - 10/8/7.2; Prototipo Standard B - 14/11.2/10; Progetto M40 Mod.65 - 12.74/11.27/9.8/8.5

LER0YY__J3NK1NS #127 Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:03 PM

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View PostDaDirtyDirty, on 29 March 2019 - 04:47 AM, said:

Can you add the auto reloading feature to the IS3 Auto?? 

 

please no.  at least not how it is on PC.  tier 8 is already toxic enough.



mer0u1 #128 Posted 13 April 2019 - 02:07 PM

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View PostMaxChaos24, on 26 March 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

 

P.44 PANTERA

  • Turret 1: Cannone da 90/53 Gun: 9s / 11s
  • Turret 1: Cannone da 90/74 Gun: 9s / 11s
  • Turret 2: Cannone da 90/74 Gun: 10.6s / 12.6s / 13.6s

Prototipo Standard B

  • Turret 1: Cannone da 90 Rh Gun: 10.1s / 11.1s / 13.1s
  • Turret 1: Cannone da 105 Rh V1 Gun: 15.7s / 17.7s / 20.7s
  • Turret 2: Cannone DA 105 RH V1 Gun: 15.7 / 17.7s / 19.7s

Progetto M40 mod. 65

  • Cannone da 150/51 M68 Gun: 13s / 15s /17s 19s

 

So, let me get through these mechanics. If I understand them correctly, the DPM on Prototipo Standard B is around 1080 with cannone DA 105 RH V1.

Because you need to take into account the very first reload time into the calculs.

So, the true equation is :

19,7s+17,7s+15,7s = 53,1s to be fully reloaded.

so, first shell can be shot at 53,1s -> 360 damage.

Plus 3s as intra-clip, before shooting the second shell.

so, 53,1s+3s = 56,1s -> 720 damage.

Then, I can only shoot the third shell to get the true DPM of the tank, which takes another 3s to be loaded.

So, 56,1s+3s = 59,1s -> 1080 damage.

This is the REAL DPM of Prototipo Standard B.

DPM must NOT be calculated after the clip is fully loaded but as soon as it is reloading, from the very first shell.

So, not a great DPM for a tier IX medium tank!

Now, we can also calculate DPM with the full ammo capability (60) and the optimized reload time, with single shot mechanics (15,7s).

so, we get :

19,7s+17,7s+15,7s+(15,7sx57) = 948s

So, it takes 948s to load and shoot each and every single shell.

Complete average damage output is :

60x360 = 21 600

So, to get the effective DPM, we need to calculate like this :

21 600 / 948s x 60 = 1367,08 DPM

With the exact method on PC, we get :

21 600 / (15s+13s+11s+(11sx57)) x 60 = 1946 DPM

Still not a great DPM for a tier IX medium tank.

If you have any other numbers, I'd really like to know how you get them.

I'm still wondering why this medium tank has been that nerfed, each individual shell reload time getting +4s compared to PC version. Intra-clip should be at least 2,5s, not 3s.


Edited by mer0u1, 13 April 2019 - 03:00 PM.

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ProPAINdelivery #129 Posted 19 April 2019 - 01:32 PM

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I still want an answer as why none have posted the reloads on them. Only the progetto 46 has it... why do they not post the base reloads... I really am disappointed to see that. Cause the average Joe like me does not always dig gets there and gets dissatisfied and then they may leave playing the game and then we dwindle our player base.... it is sad to see in my opinion.

MaxChaos24 #130 Posted 19 April 2019 - 01:50 PM

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View PostProPAINdelivery, on 19 April 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

I still want an answer as why none have posted the reloads on them. Only the progetto 46 has it... why do they not post the base reloads... I really am disappointed to see that. Cause the average Joe like me does not always dig gets there and gets dissatisfied and then they may leave playing the game and then we dwindle our player base.... it is sad to see in my opinion.

 

Hello, this is due to needing a new UI stat display to support the different reloads per shell. It will be added in the 4.10 update. The current UI couldn't handle this so that's why it's not displayed. :honoring:

KNALLLER #131 Posted 19 April 2019 - 04:57 PM

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The dilettante work of WG should be known by now

Thanks to WarGaming anti-EU attitude and disgusting deleting of non-English speaking communities ,,I,,

 

 

 


Sammael85 #132 Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:52 PM

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View PostLER0YY__J3NK1NS, on 03 April 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

please no.  at least not how it is on PC.  tier 8 is already toxic enough.

 

Please YES, I need my reward for still keeping my Fatherland.

Some might say i'm not constructive enough... Too bad i'm actually a deconstructivist

Si eres español/hispano y te sientes aislado por WG, no estás solo: Hay un Batallón Exiliado dispuesto a ayudarte

Hear me ROAR!!!
 





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